Darkseid vs. Adam Warlock

Originally posted by Desaad
I do.

Don't worry. If we end up doing this, try to go through my collection and pick my favorite plans. I've already taken the liberty of scanning up a couple of good tricksy schemes he's concocted. Most of the rest I suspect I'll describe, since it would take too long to spell them all out.

But yes, Darkseid is manipulating virtually every thread of Countdown. Its subtle, its clever, its impossible to know to what end he is doing all this but it is big and it is sinister.

In conclusion...it's Darkseid. 🙂

The chessboard alone shows how far his reach extends.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Darkseid/newgodsdying.jpg
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Darkseid/darkseidmanipulation.jpg

That green hooded guy in the 2nd pic is either Ragman or the Spectre.

Originally posted by Desaad
He wasn't smarter at all.

He succeeded more, sure, but in terms of genuine intelligence of his schemes, he doesn't have what Darkseid has.

And Darkseid's forces and technology are greater, to boot.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes this damn countdown crap I really dont know how masterful it is until I read it. When is countdown over I feel we should do the debate after its over and not in the middle of this story. What do you think?

Its over in, what, 6 months? Way too long.

Even though the full extent of Darkseid's schemes probably won't be known for a while, I'm fine with what has been shown already; that he's been manipulating the moniters, every hero and every villain in Countdown into position for something important to him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Just becuz his schemes were more complicated as doesnt mean hes smarter. You either accomplish what you set out to do or you dont. Darkseid does have more resources but thats becuz Thanos doesnt need all that.

Thanos doesn't have all that because Thanos' competition is brain dead.

We've been through this.

If am battling Bobby Fisher in chess and make a decent showing of myself, but lose, I'm still more impressive than you winning against someone who is average at best.

Originally posted by Desaad
Its over in, what, 6 months? Way too long.

Even though the full extent of Darkseid's schemes probably won't be known for a while, I'm fine with what has been shown already; that he's been manipulating the moniters, every hero and every villain in Countdown into position for something important to him.

Originally posted by Desaad
Thanos doesn't have all that because Thanos' competition is brain dead.

We've been through this.

If am battling Bobby Fisher in chess and make a decent showing of myself, but lose, I'm still more impressive than you winning against someone who is average at best.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Just becuz his schemes were more complicated as doesnt mean hes smarter. You either accomplish what you set out to do or you dont. Darkseid does have more resources but thats becuz Thanos doesnt need all that.

Quan, if Thanos had to deal with the headaches DS did, he wouldn't succeed nearly as often. Darkseid is well known and everybody and his brother tries to stop him most of the time. He's got to fight the JLA, Highfather, New Genesis, his own son, Desaad and Kalibak on occasion, the GL corp, Infinity Man, Takion, Ares, the other pantheons in the DCU, the LSH........whereas Thanos mostly deals with Surfer, Infinity Watch, Drax and Adam Warlock. He occasionally fights against some of the major players, but as his schemes connect with them. Quite simply, he succeeds more often, yes, but he doesn't have to face the overwhelming opposition DS does.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Quan, if Thanos had to deal with the headaches DS did, he wouldn't succeed nearly as often. Darkseid is well known and everybody and his brother tries to stop him most of the time. He's got to fight the JLA, Highfather, New Genesis, his own son, Desaad and Kalibak on occasion, the GL corp, Infinity Man, Takion, Ares, the other pantheons in the DCU, the LSH........whereas Thanos mostly deals with Surfer, Infinity Watch, Drax and Adam Warlock. He occasionally fights against some of the major players, but as his schemes connect with them. Quite simply, he succeeds more often, yes, but he doesn't have to face the overwhelming opposition DS does.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Quan, if Thanos had to deal with the headaches DS did, he wouldn't succeed nearly as often. Darkseid is well known and everybody and his brother tries to stop him most of the time. He's got to fight the JLA, Highfather, New Genesis, his own son, Desaad and Kalibak on occasion, the GL corp, Infinity Man, Takion, Ares, the other pantheons in the DCU, the LSH........whereas Thanos mostly deals with Surfer, Infinity Watch, Drax and Adam Warlock. He occasionally fights against some of the major players, but as his schemes connect with them. Quite simply, he succeeds more often, yes, but he doesn't have to face the overwhelming opposition DS does.

Darkseid doesnt face all this opposition all the time. So you have him sometimes just meeting Superman and not the entire jla. Darkseid also has an entire army to help him out with powerful characters along with it to boot. Thanos is mainly on his own but has had an ally or two on occasion. For the most part these villains start shit and then the heroes come to save the day. Its not like apokolips is being invaded all the time by the jla,other pantheon,etc. He starts shit and then gets his ass handed to him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I thought it was almost over. Dammit. But then we dont get to see Darkseids plans blow up in his face. Oh well I guess we cant wait as 6 months is very long indeed. Basically if he is manipulating everyone in countdown it could turn into the whole dc universe vs Thanos his allies,maybe his clones, and some others.

Oh, no no no.

He isn't controlling them like that. Its not like he's going to enlist the aid of Karate Kid.

Its more like he's subtly manipulating their actions to some unknown end. They aren't going to go to war for him.

Also, Countdown leads straight into final Crisis, and I suspect that, if anywhere, is where you will see the plans blow up in Darkseid's face.

Originally posted by Bransolute
Ha... you named people Darkseid has only had to deal with only a few times at best... and I don't recall him dealing with the Corps... only the Guardians when they stopped Raker from attacking Darkseid.

Originally posted by Desaad
Oh, no no no.

He isn't controlling them like that. Its not like he's going to enlist the aid of Karate Kid.

Its more like he's subtly manipulating their actions to some unknown end. They aren't going to go to war for him.

Also, Countdown leads straight into final Crisis, and I suspect that, if anywhere, is where you will see the plans blow up in Darkseid's face.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Grandmaster didnt seem braindead in jla avengers. Do you think they are braindead in general or just when they meet Thanos?

Just when they meet Thanos.

I should have specified, and thats my fault.

I just mean that Thanos' plans aren't very clever. Yet he still dupes heroes and villains that are, on the whole, intelligent.

I mean really, the defeat of Grandmaster was pitiful. He just used a robot. Not exactly a master strategist, eh?

Same deal with pretty much all the others. Is it genius to use the time gem to age the Runner? I suspect any decently canny person would think of that. He got the location and nature of the gems from the Infinity Well, hardly a planning feat there.

He blew up a planet to kill Omega. He blew up two planets and some nukes to kill the Hunger.

Again, not astounding by the lengths of his planning.

Originally posted by Bransolute
Ha... you named people Darkseid has only had to deal with only a few times at best... and I don't recall him dealing with the Corps... only the Guardians when they stopped Raker from attacking Darkseid.

Huh? Darkseid went to war with the Green Lantern Corps.

He and Apokolips demolished 2/3rd of their army, in fact.

That is what lead up to the Raker battle.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I know they arent going to war but I thought youd go with the angle of him manipulating them into fighting Thanos and his boys.

No, that seems very tenuous and dubious to me.

I just plan on using it as a feat of extreme planning ability and skill, above and beyond the likes of Thanos. How you choose to translate that in the battle is your choice, of course. 🙂

But I'd more say that Darkseid might manipulate Thanos' forces.

Originally posted by Desaad
Huh? Darkseid went to war with the Green Lantern Corps.

He and Apokolips demolished 2/3rd of their army, in fact.

That is what lead up to the Raker battle.

Was just thinking of Raker.

Originally posted by Desaad
Just when they meet Thanos.

I should have specified, and thats my fault.

I just mean that Thanos' plans aren't very clever. Yet he still dupes heroes and villains that are, on the whole, intelligent.

I mean really, the defeat of Grandmaster was pitiful. He just used a robot. Not exactly a master strategist, eh?

Same deal with pretty much all the others. Is it genius to use the time gem to age the Runner? I suspect any decently canny person would think of that. He got the location and nature of the gems from the Infinity Well, hardly a planning feat there.

He blew up a planet to kill Omega. He blew up two planets and some nukes to kill the Hunger.

Again, not astounding by the lengths of his planning.

To me and I know youll disagree it isnt the difficulty or the ingenuity of the plan its whether or not you accomplish what you set out to do. Thanos does while Darkseid usually fails. Look at him in genesis. He thought it was him that was going to absorb the power of the godwave but was beaten to the punch there by ares who also killed his nemesis Izaya. Not bad ares not bad.

Anyways we really dont need to get into this whole big argument again and should save all this Darkseid and Thanos stuff for our debate.

Originally posted by Desaad
No, that seems very tenuous and dubious to me.

I just plan on using it as a feat of extreme planning ability and skill, above and beyond the likes of Thanos. How you choose to translate that in the battle is your choice, of course. 🙂

But I'd more say that Darkseid might manipulate Thanos' forces.

What else is there bseides the death of the new gods?

Countdown to mystery#2, and what issues of batman and superman with all the brainwashing crap? Anything else Im missing that has Darkseid in it?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I dont buy this. Your beef is with the writer then and you think he cant come up with clever ways to make Thanos look well clever. Thanos is still effective and that is the bottom line.

That isn't the bottom line.

He's more effective when he's facing foes that are dumb.

But Thanos' aura won't be "on" for this battle. Darkseid will be as smart as he is, and Thanos will be as smart as he has demonstrated himself to be.

I'm saying that Darkseid has demonstrated him to be smarter, if less effective due to intelligence of opposition.

To me and I know youll disagree it isnt the difficulty or the ingenuity of the plan its whether or not you accomplish what you set out to do. Thanos does while Darkseid usually fails. Look at him in genesis. He thought it was him that was going to absorb the power of the godwave but was beaten to the punch there by ares who also killed his nemesis Izaya. Not bad ares not bad.

But he had a plan to, and did, stop Ares once Ares had absorbed the power of the Godwave.

And Ares was able to do what he did to Izaya due to the factor of him being unknown. Izaya would never have let Darkseid get so close, because he knows the snake that Darkseid is.

Special circumstances, all.

Anyways we really dont need to get into this whole big argument again and should save all this Darkseid and Thanos stuff for our debate.

I was thinking the same thing. I'm givin you all my material!