Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine has a natural resistance to tk, he has years of "physic scar" tissue improving his natural fortitude, and Level 10 Psi-Blockers ontop of that... and Mr. X had no trouble reading his moves.
and black widow was unable to resist osborn people and trick him for months, and X not only sensed she was off, his powers still worked on her.
also they can't have it both ways. so either X pulled off the feat with using powers, or he did it with out which would mean he does not even need his telepathy to effortlly black meta human as skill as black widow machine gun firer.
Originally posted by KingD19
He's going to do this with no weapons??? Midnighter has taken things X wish he could dish out, and he kept going. What can X really do to him? And Midnighter's mind plays out scenarios, millions of them, one of them will involve X's defeat.
Luckily he has weapons! 😱
Based on Midnighter's own accounts five possible win scenarios is his average. Either he sucks ass, or Billions of scenarios per second is a hyperbole. Doesn't matter wither way, while Midnighter is going through "a billion possible options" for what X might, X knows what Midnighter will do.
And Mr. X has superhuman speed. First off, he's shown himself to be fast enough to react to the information he is gleaming off Wolverine, something that Pyslocke has been unable to do (and she is - at the very least - peak human in speed). Secondly, he was shown to be significantly faster than Taskmaster (who has legitimate bullet time feats) in blood sport, seemingly materializing at the top of the cage when Taskmaster was only feet away from the exit even though X had been shown to be standing ring level.
And everyone has seen the bullet blocking feat.
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Wolverine has a natural resistance to tk, he has years of "physic scar" tissue improving his natural fortitude, and Level 10 Psi-Blockers ontop of that... and Mr. X had no trouble reading his moves.
Level 9 blockers.
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Not gonna pick the winner as I'm not familiar with Midnighter character and his feats.
Originally posted by Digi
Motorfunction precursors are brain impulses. The synaptic pulse is what precedes motor function. Midnighter has shielded his implants from telepathic intrusion. Ergo, the thing that sends signals to his muscles. Therefore, it's reasonable to assume that X can't predict him because his neural implants are unreadable.
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I wonder how someone would claim that it's logically for Mister X to not be able to predict Wolverine's movements when he's in feral rage, yet claim that he would be able to predict Midnighter. The reason why Wolverine became impossible to predict in feral rage, was because he acted on pure instinct. How would this make it any more difficult to read his movements? It wouldn't. It would only make it more difficult to read his mind properly, since he's not thinking like a human being anymore.
Considering that Midnighter's implants are technological, and that he replays over a million different scenarios, it's safe to say that his line of thinking is not human.
everyone forgets that when Wolvie shut off his conscious brain and went into berserker mode, X couldn't read him (I just read it in the comic) and he had to escape. forget about wolverine this about Mr. X and Midnighter
stats from their prospective companies
Midnighter...
PowersBattle Precognition (Mental Induction): ability is his power to predict how a battle will happen before it starts. His 'fight implants' include a 'combat computer' that allows him to run through a given combat situation millions of times in his mind, almost instantly covering nearly every possible result before the first punch is even thrown. He uses this information to predict the actions and or reactions of his foes, counteracting their moves almost before they even think to make them. According to Midnighter, his powers also work by letting him see the outcome of the battle he wants, and working backwards, following the right steps to get there.
Tactical Senses: Midnighter's senses allow him to detect any modifications or powers in anyone he looks at, as well as how they work, so he can defeat them. He can detect what special abilities a opponent has, he can see the enhancements. He can detect the increased electrical activity in an opponents brain.
Telescopic Vision
Thermal Vision
Enhanced Hearing: able to directionally tune into where exactly wants to hear.
Fight Implants: Midnighter's abilities were designed by Bendix to give him an all encompassing advantage in close-combat.
Enhanced Strength: He has fiber-lined muscle increasing his strength (he can dismember opponents with his bare hands and feet)
Enhanced Speed: Midnighter can move faster than the human (and even superhuman) eye in a quick speed burst, an effect perhaps created by his always possessing the element of surprise. He normally moves at slightly above human speed but can move so fast that enemies with super speed can't see him, though he can't stay at that speed for long.
Enhanced Durability
Enhanced Coordination: Midnighter's body has been altered to give him inhuman balance.
Enhanced Reflexes: Midnighter's body has been altered to give him faster nerve endings so he can react quicker than any human and many superhumans.
Survival Implants: Implants used to keep him fighting in the worst of conditions.
Pain Receptor Control: He can turn his pain receptors on and off so he can keep fighting when the pain would stop a normal man, and has implants that numb him to most pain - he has undergone major surgery while awake and alert. The pain is not totally cut off though, so his healing factor is also very helpful.
Enhanced Healing: Though not on the level of certain Marvel or DC characters, Midnighter does heal much faster than a normal human. He's fought with, and healed from, a broken neck, broken limbs, holes through his chest, having his whole body set on fire, contracting various viruses (including AIDS), and other things.
Super-Enhanced Immune System: to the point where HIV was defeated in six weeks and the common cold never stays more than a couple of minutes. After The Doctor overdosed himself with heroin, physicians used a shot of Midnighter's blood to jumpstart his system by deactivating his opiate receptors.
Environmental Adaptation: He can survive in anaerobic environments for short periods and possesses a secondary heart should the first one be rendered unusable. Midnighter has no need to use the bathroom and can go without food or water for an undetermined (but undoubtedly long) amount of time.AbilitiesWeapons Master: He also speaks German and can apparently operate several types of outdated weaponry, as evidenced by his use of WWI artillery while chronologically displaced.
Master of Stealth: Midnighter is also quite adept at stealth. He is known to only be seen when he wants to be seen.
Master Combatant: He is a close-quarters killer, having quite effortlessly slaughtered close to 30 superpowered soldiers by himself, without being so much as touched by them.
Omni-lingual
Master TacticianWeaknessesPsionics: a sufficiently powered psychic can shut down his mental enhancements making his ability to calculate a fight null and void.
http://wildstormresource.wetpaint.com/page/Midnighter
Mister X
Powers
Mister X is a low-level telepath and uses his powers to read an opponent's mind during a physical confrontation. Mister X is able to "see" his opponents moves before they execute them, enabling him to already be several steps ahead. Mister X's ability makes him extraordinarily effective in combat, even against an opponent with superhuman physical attributes like Wolverine. Mister X's powers, however, have proven to be ineffective against Wolverine once he slips into a "Berserker Rage."
Abilities
Mister X is a master of all known forms of armed and unarmed combat, including numerous martial arts, boxing, and swordplay. He is also an expert assassin and escape artist, and is highly proficient with many weapons. Through years of intensive training, Mister X has honed his body and physical attributes to the pinnacle of human conditioning.
http://marvel.com/universe/Mister_X
IMO Midnighter takes the W .
Originally posted by complexbrotherMidnighter cannot go into ''berserker'' mode .
everyone forgets that when Wolvie shut off his conscious brain and went into berserker mode, X couldn't read him (I just read it in the comic) and he had to escape. forget about wolverine this about Mr. X and Midnighterstats from their prospective companies
Midnighter...
PowersBattle Precognition (Mental Induction): ability is his power to predict how a battle will happen before it starts. His 'fight implants' include a 'combat computer' that allows him to run through a given combat situation millions of times in his mind, almost instantly covering nearly every possible result before the first punch is even thrown. He uses this information to predict the actions and or reactions of his foes, counteracting their moves almost before they even think to make them. According to Midnighter, his powers also work by letting him see the outcome of the battle he wants, and working backwards, following the right steps to get there.Tactical Senses: Midnighter's senses allow him to detect any modifications or powers in anyone he looks at, as well as how they work, so he can defeat them. He can detect what special abilities a opponent has, he can see the enhancements. He can detect the increased electrical activity in an opponents brain.
Telescopic Vision
Thermal Vision
Enhanced Hearing: able to directionally tune into where exactly wants to hear.
Fight Implants: Midnighter's abilities were designed by Bendix to give him an all encompassing advantage in close-combat.Enhanced Strength: He has fiber-lined muscle increasing his strength (he can dismember opponents with his bare hands and feet)
Enhanced Speed: Midnighter can move faster than the human (and even superhuman) eye in a quick speed burst, an effect perhaps created by his always possessing the element of surprise. He normally moves at slightly above human speed but can move so fast that enemies with super speed can't see him, though he can't stay at that speed for long.
Enhanced Durability
Enhanced Coordination: Midnighter's body has been altered to give him inhuman balance.
Enhanced Reflexes: Midnighter's body has been altered to give him faster nerve endings so he can react quicker than any human and many superhumans.
Survival Implants: Implants used to keep him fighting in the worst of conditions.Pain Receptor Control: He can turn his pain receptors on and off so he can keep fighting when the pain would stop a normal man, and has implants that numb him to most pain - he has undergone major surgery while awake and alert. The pain is not totally cut off though, so his healing factor is also very helpful.
Enhanced Healing: Though not on the level of certain Marvel or DC characters, Midnighter does heal much faster than a normal human. He's fought with, and healed from, a broken neck, broken limbs, holes through his chest, having his whole body set on fire, contracting various viruses (including AIDS), and other things.
Super-Enhanced Immune System: to the point where HIV was defeated in six weeks and the common cold never stays more than a couple of minutes. After The Doctor overdosed himself with heroin, physicians used a shot of Midnighter's blood to jumpstart his system by deactivating his opiate receptors.
Environmental Adaptation: He can survive in anaerobic environments for short periods and possesses a secondary heart should the first one be rendered unusable. Midnighter has no need to use the bathroom and can go without food or water for an undetermined (but undoubtedly long) amount of time.AbilitiesWeapons Master: He also speaks German and can apparently operate several types of outdated weaponry, as evidenced by his use of WWI artillery while chronologically displaced.Master of Stealth: Midnighter is also quite adept at stealth. He is known to only be seen when he wants to be seen.
Master Combatant: He is a close-quarters killer, having quite effortlessly slaughtered close to 30 superpowered soldiers by himself, without being so much as touched by them.
Omni-lingual
Master TacticianWeaknessesPsionics: a sufficiently powered psychic can shut down his mental enhancements making his ability to calculate a fight null and void.
http://wildstormresource.wetpaint.com/page/MidnighterMister X
Powers
Mister X is a low-level telepath and uses his powers to read an opponent's mind during a physical confrontation. Mister X is able to "see" his opponents moves before they execute them, enabling him to already be several steps ahead. Mister X's ability makes him extraordinarily effective in combat, even against an opponent with superhuman physical attributes like Wolverine. Mister X's powers, however, have proven to be ineffective against Wolverine once he slips into a "Berserker Rage."Abilities
Mister X is a master of all known forms of armed and unarmed combat, including numerous martial arts, boxing, and swordplay. He is also an expert assassin and escape artist, and is highly proficient with many weapons. Through years of intensive training, Mister X has honed his body and physical attributes to the pinnacle of human conditioning.
http://marvel.com/universe/Mister_XIMO Midnighter takes the W .
Unless midnighter has an attack X can do nothing against even if he can predict it X wins this .
Originally posted by godking
Midnighter cannot go into ''berserker'' mode .Unless midnighter has an attack X can do nothing against even if he can predict it X wins this .
Do you know why Mister X can't predict Wolverine in beserker mode? It's either because of two reasons. Because Wolverine's "thinking/neural things" are not human enough, or because they're too well shielded. Both are things that would also apply to Midnighter 😐
Originally posted by Digi
So I believed. But he can affect Wolverine, so apparently all of my arguments are moot.313
When you have somebody who has untested (psychic) defenses that have withstood a mid-level attack, up against somebody with a (psychich) offense that has proven effective against incredibly tough defenses, it is unreasonable to assume that the defense will win over the offense, because "there's no proof that it won't." You need proof that it will, and you haven't provided that.
Originally posted by Ize19
When you have somebody who has untested (psychic) defenses that have withstood a mid-level attack, up against somebody with a (psychich) offense that has proven effective against incredibly tough defenses, it is unreasonable to assume that the defense will win over the offense, because "there's no proof that it won't." You need proof that it will, and you haven't provided that.
Um. Heh. Agreed in full. Though you may have missed the part where I stated that neither side can prove their case in this particular point. And we can't. I never claimed to be able to, and just presented the information that was relevant to the fight for consideration.
Because that street goes both ways. No, we can't assume the defense would win. On that I agree with you. But does that mean that it is reasonable to assume the offense would, given just as little evidence? No.
So here's the info, once again:
- MN'ers mind is as much machine-operated as man.
- It operates at the speed of roughly a million of thoughts per second.
- It has been altered to block telepathic intrusion, and successfully blocked Jackson King. Jackson pulled a few other tricks on MNer, but couldn't read his thoughts or directly assault his mind.
It's really a shame, because the battle likely hinges upon whether or not X could read MN'ers thoughts. And since we can't determine it for sure, we can't take a definitive stance on the battle. If you think X could do it, cool. I think all of those things combined would make it impossible for him to do so. He'd need to be able to read mechnical "thoughts" and impulses, and at a rate that no one outside of Flash is capable of. But it's my opinion, not a statement that I am claiming to be absolute fact.
Originally posted by Digi
Um. Heh. Agreed in full. Though you may have missed the part where I stated that neither side can prove their case in this particular point. And we can't. I never claimed to be able to, and just presented the information that was relevant to the fight for consideration.Because that street goes both ways. No, we can't assume the defense would win. On that I agree with you. But does that mean that it is reasonable to assume the offense would, given just as little evidence? No.
So here's the info, once again:
- MN'ers mind is as much machine-operated as man.
- It operates at the speed of roughly a million of thoughts per second.
- It has been altered to block telepathic intrusion, and successfully blocked Jackson King. Jackson pulled a few other tricks on MNer, but couldn't read his thoughts or directly assault his mind.It's really a shame, because the battle likely hinges upon whether or not X could read MN'ers thoughts. And since we can't determine it for sure, we can't take a definitive stance on the battle. If you think X could do it, cool. I think all of those things combined would make it impossible for him to do so. He'd need to be able to read mechnical "thoughts" and impulses, and at a rate that no one outside of Flash is capable of. But it's my opinion, not a statement that I am claiming to be absolute fact.
Yeah, I got that part. It just seemed unreasonable to me that you wanted to give the benefit of the doubt to MN. As I see it, you have three facts, all of which are nullified by the fact that Mr. X's nervous system automatically maps onto the signals in the body that tell the body to move. That means that his body is automatically responding to every action MN will make, so he doesn't have to comprehend those signals before taking action. As for whether or not he can get past his blockers, getting past Black Widow's, and especially Wolverine's defenses is definitely a better feat than blocking Jackson King, whom you called a "mid-level telepath." Seems to me, if he's got that going for him, then his superior fighting ability and equal speed give him the majority. IMO, of course.