Originally posted by Val
It's not because Jordan is the Lantern. Nobody gets upset when Kyle is chosen for something over Hal. Plus, everybody is always screaming for more Alan exposure.However, it has nothing to do with race. Rayner himself is half mexican. It's because John just flat out isn't that interesting.
Fair enough, allow me to restate.
For me it's because Jordan is the Lantern. I like Kyle as well, usually see them as equals in overall capability, and would be less disappointed with Kyle than I am with John, but, still it's nothing to do with race. I'd be equally disappointed with either John or Guy - hell, he's never even been on the JLA, but I'd rather see Kilowog than John or Guy, and he's not even human.
Originally posted by Val
I don't see why blandness has to be exclusive to white guys. Talk about discrimination. Lulz.All I'm saying about John Stewart is that the majority's preference for Hal or Kyle has nothing to do with John being black.
Fair enough. But you can see what producers are doing when they make TV shows or movies from comics - they want the widest possible appeal, beyond Middle America. That's how John got the call over Hal for the animated series, and why many neutral characters - Alicia Masters, The Kingpin, Harvey Dent - have had their race changed to African American, to better represent. Heck, they even had many black actors voicing non-black characters in the JL cartoon - Keith David, Phil Morris, Dennis Haysbert, Michael Jai White.
The trend will continue, which is why someone like Hal could be squeezed out. Matbe if they do Kyle Rayner, they'll make him completely latino instead of half.
Originally posted by Val
I don't see why blandness has to be exclusive to white guys. Talk about discrimination. Lulz.
well majority of characters are white. so for every 'bland' Hal you get an interesting Wolverine or a funny Spiderman or a heroic Captain America, etc.
But there are so few black/minority characters that there will not be any counterbalance if they are written to be bland.
This isn't to say minority characters should be forced to be token superstars, rather writers should have the goal of creating interesting characterization for any characters, regardless of race or gender.
Hey, at least you all have characters portraying your backgrounds. What we need is more Italian heroes! What do we Italians/Sicilians have? Punisher, Strong Guy, Huntress, Rockslide and The Darkness. I'm sick of my ethnic heritage being shown as mostly criminals and gangsters! durfist
BTW, I'm not serious. 😛
Originally posted by roughrider
Fair enough. But you can see what producers are doing when they make TV shows or movies from comics - they want the widest possible appeal, beyond Middle America. That's how John got the call over Hal for the animated series, and why many neutral characters - Alicia Masters, The Kingpin, Harvey Dent - have had their race changed to African American, to better represent. Heck, they even had many black actors voicing non-black characters in the JL cartoon - Keith David, Phil Morris, Dennis Haysbert, Michael Jai White.
The trend will continue, which is why someone like Hal could be squeezed out. Matbe if they do Kyle Rayner, they'll make him completely latino instead of half.
Originally posted by roughrider
Fair enough. But you can see what producers are doing when they make TV shows or movies from comics - they want the widest possible appeal, beyond Middle America. That's how John got the call over Hal for the animated series, and why many neutral characters - Alicia Masters, The Kingpin, Harvey Dent - have had their race changed to African American, to better represent. Heck, they even had many black actors voicing non-black characters in the JL cartoon - Keith David, Phil Morris, Dennis Haysbert, Michael Jai White.
The trend will continue, which is why someone like Hal could be squeezed out. Matbe if they do Kyle Rayner, they'll make him completely latino instead of half.
I agree that they are trying a little hard to make it more multi-cultural. But, if they get good actors who understand the characters and are willing to portray them in the spirit of the comics, I have no problem with it.
Take Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin in Daredevil. He was the only good thing in that movie (well, him and Colin Farrel as Bullseye) and he was perfect for the role. He nailed it. And most fans didn't give a shit about his race, because he respected the character and portrayed him the right way.
And in fairness, your examples with voice work doesn't hold. Keith David does alot of voiceovers, and quite a few of his animated roles are for non-humans. He was Despero on JL, Goliath on Gargoyles, and ironically enough, Spawn in the HBO series of the same name. And Spawn, despite being undead, is still technically black and one of the most well known characters in comics.
And I don't like John Stewart either. He's a snooze. 😛 Kyle's always been the most interesting in terms of story and character development IMO. Though Hal and Alan are very close and probably tied for 2nd. Guy is just fun and an entertaining jerk.
Originally posted by Badabing
Hey, at least you all have characters portraying your backgrounds. What we need is more Italian heroes! What do we Italians/Sicilians have? Punisher, Strong Guy, Huntress, Rockslide and The Darkness. I'm sick of my ethnic heritage being shown as mostly criminals and gangsters! durfistBTW, I'm not serious. 😛
😛 Yeah well us Brits don't get any cool superheroes! The only good one we have is Psylocke and she inhabits the body of an Asian Lady! 😛
I like jordan because to me he's the most interesting lantern... thats just personal preference, and yes i was annoyed when he was replaced, because i was looking forward to seeing my favourite heroes on a team...
multiculturalism for the sake of it is the most ridiculous criteria to use when constructing a team for a comic... you pick the best characters for the team, or the ones you like writing the most... maybe mcduffie likes having john on the team because thats his favourite lantern and he likes writing him... if thats it, then fair enough... but having them simply because he's black? thats crap...
Originally posted by Val
It's not because Jordan is the Lantern. Nobody gets upset when Kyle is chosen for something over Hal. Plus, everybody is always screaming for more Alan exposure.However, it has nothing to do with race. Rayner himself is half mexican. It's because John just flat out isn't that interesting.
you don't get upset because you like kyle... 😛
Originally posted by Val
You mean you all don't have Mob ties and don't walk around screaming every sentence like Pacino?
bada does... ermm
Originally posted by willRules
😛 Yeah well us Brits don't get any cool superheroes! The only good one we have is Psylocke and she inhabits the body of an Asian Lady! 😛
It's ironic. Maybe the best writers come from the UK - Moore, Morrison, Ellis, Gaiman, Ennis, Milligan - and they just get hired to write American characters. 😄
John Stewart is one of my favorite characters, who honestly needs more spotlight in comics, more development. some people say they dont like him cuz he isnt interesting and want him replaced by someone like Hal. but how the hell is he ever gonna develop as a character if he is constantly stuck on the shelf? i would like very much for Kyle to magically become full Latino as i dont feel like im properly represented in the lantern corp or DC superheroes. [new blue beetle does not heal all wounds!]
black panther, black lightning, Mr.Terrific, John Stewart, Thunder, Storm, Vixen, Goliath, Manhattan Guardian [who needs a fukin comic] and thats right off the top of my head [i have more but i can go on for awhile] but wtf, i cant list as many Hispanics.. i can list more lizard people than i can Hispanics.
if someone could, be my guest. ;_;
John Stewart is one of my favorite characters, who honestly needs more spotlight in comics, more development. some people say they dont like him cuz he isnt interesting and want him replaced by someone like Hal. but how the hell is he ever gonna develop as a character if he is constantly stuck on the shelf?
you are right of course... if a character needs development (and john getting a bit of spotlight wouldnt hurt) then all the better.. i still cringe when i see what kara did to him...
Re: Lets find discrimination!
Originally posted by Soljer
You know, for fun.
Let me fix some of that.
Darkseid, a heavily muscled dark skinned man, is clearly being portrayed as a villain.
Also Orion, a powerfully muscled man, is being portrayed as though being a warrior is somehow a dominant aspect of who he his. It's as though the writers can deal with having a physically fit person who is also smart.
Metron, a highly intelligent man, is portrayed as a stereotypical geek unable to even remotely connect with others. He is also depicted as dangerously emaciated and having a drug addiction a vice not depicted in any of the other characters!.
ScottFree, son of a wealthy family and in possession of considerable power, is adolescently unable to deal with the death of his wife despite the slaughter of his entire species.
The BlackRacer, a Black man, is the character that others are most surprised is to learn is dead. That's right dozens have died but the writers have decided that this one man is somehow deserving of so much attention.
Re: Re: Lets find discrimination!
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Let me fix some of that.Darkseid, a heavily muscled dark skinned man, is clearly being portrayed as a villain.
Also Orion, a powerfully muscled man, is being portrayed as though being a warrior is somehow a dominant aspect of who he his. It's as though the writers can deal with having a physically fit person who is also smart.
Metron, a highly intelligent man, is portrayed as a stereotypical geek unable to even remotely connect with others. He is also depicted as dangerously emaciated and having a drug addiction a vice not depicted in any of the other characters!.
ScottFree, son of a wealthy family and in possession of considerable power, is adolescently unable to deal with the death of his wife despite the slaughter of his entire species.
The BlackRacer, a Black man, is the character that others are most surprised is to learn is dead. That's right dozens have died but the writers have decided that this one man is somehow deserving of so much attention.
I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make.
Again, there is a broad spectrum of 'white' characters, so that all types of personalities can be depicted...from the 'stereotypically geeky' metron to funny geek Spiderman to ruff gruff Wolverine to smart badass Batman to perfect boyscout Superman to philosopher like Prof X, etc...my point is that since the vast majority of characters are white, their personalities range from one end of the spectrum to the other and duds are counterbalanced by superstars. Since there are so few minority characters, the counterbalance often does not exist.