"Evolving" Robots Challenge Evolution

Started by ushomefree13 pages

"Evolving" Robots Challenge Evolution

"Evolvable" robots invented by a team of computer scientists from Brandeis University, Waltham, Massachusetts, headlined the popular media last summer.

According to the press, these machines were capable of developing, on their own, new and better machines, thus mimicking, in the laboratory, the evolutionary process biologists ascribe to nature. Reporters heralded the work as a key achievement in the area of artificial life, also citing it as powerful supporting evidence for natural-process evolution.

Details of the original report reveal, however, that though this research represents an important advance in the field of artificial life, most media overstated the researchers’ accomplishment. On closer examination, the work on "evolvable" robots constrains, rather than supports, biological evolution. The constraints it reveals raise serious problems for the evolutionary paradigm, calling into question the likelihood that biological evolution could proceed as a creative process unattended in nature.

The Brandeis researchers developed a virtually (rather than physically) "self-evolving" robot. Specifically, they used a computer simulation to "evolve" (or create progressions of) virtual robotic designs. They pre-selected two types of building blocks, rods and linear actuators, with the aim of generating (via the computer simulator) a robot that could move itself horizontally. By randomly altering structures again and again––each time selecting the best design elements, while discarding those it determined inferior—the computer simulator produced a robot design with a capacity for horizontal movement. The computer then produced a plastic prototype of the robot, and the researchers manually attached a motor to the robot to power its movement. The experimental protocol offered no opportunity for feedback from the physical world into the computer-directed "evolutionary" process.

The Brandeis scientists thus developed, for the first time, a successful interface between virtual search-and-optimization "algorithms" (step-by-step computerized problem-solving procedures) and a technology capable of producing a physical prototype.

Genetic algorithms (used for some time by engineers and scientists to search for optimal designs, including robotic designs) mimic the process evolutionary biologists think is responsible for driving evolutionary change. A genetic algorithm begins by evaluating a number of initial designs according to a predetermined set of criteria. The most "fit" of these designs are modified by simple changes (called mutations, or asexual reproduction) or by combining parts of two or more designs (called sexual reproduction), and the new designs are then evaluated. The genetic algorithm repeats this process over and over again until a superior design (one that optimally fits the selection criteria) emerges.

Using genetic algorithms, the Brandeis scientists sought a robotic design capable of horizontal movement. The genetic algorithm started with two hundred random designs, with rods and linear actuators as the predetermined building blocks. A design that yielded a certain amount of movement in a certain amount of time would be "selected." The most successful designs were used to produce a new set of designs by randomly modifying, removing, adding, or relocating rods and linear actuators. Typically, tens of generations passed before machine designs capable of any movement "evolved." The "evolution" of working designs required 300 to 600 generations and about 100,000 designs.

The "evolutionary" process used by the Brandeis researchers produced a variety of fairly sophisticated machines. The robots moved by dragging, ratcheting, crawling, scooting (crab-like sideways motion), and side-to-side oscillations, to name a few. Robots typically employed about 20 building blocks (rods and actuators) in various configurations. These robust robotic designs retained the capability for movement even after researchers removed or altered the size of various building blocks.

Though the work of the Brandeis scientists might seem to lend empirical support to biological evolution, careful evaluation of this work uncovers several significant constraints that make biological evolution unworkable in nature.

[size=3]Selecting Building Blocks

The choice of building blocks is critical to the evolutionary process. In this case, the Brandeis scientists thoughtfully selected rods and linear actuators. The simplicity of these building blocks allowed for maximal architectural and manufacturing flexibility. Thus, the intelligent designers provided the genetic algorithm with optimal features, giving ample opportunity to find a workable design. Selection of the wrong building blocks would have limited the design options to the point that few, if any, workable designs would be possible.

Nature offers a variety of building blocks, not all necessarily optimal. And, according to the evolutionary paradigm, nature offers no "intelligence" or process to select the appropriate building blocks to ensure the availability of the largest number of workable design options.

Modifying Failed Designs

The computer simulator was able to find workable robot designs only after many generations had passed. Tens of generations were required before any of the robotic designs acquired the capability for movement. The genetic algorithm kept the "evolutionary" process going, but in nature, if the selection criteria are not met, the evolutionary process comes to an abrupt halt. Inability to meet selection criteria means death of the organism and, more importantly, the failure to propagate the next generation. Biological evolution cannot modify failed or dead organisms to find one that will survive and yield the next generation.

Evaluating Transitional Forms

The relatively simple selection criterion (horizontal movement) required the computer simulator to evaluate about 100,000 designs. Selection criteria for a biological organism are far more complex and multifarious; many more designs would have to be explored randomly before a workable design for a living organism could emerge.

If the evolutionary process were at work in nature, multitudinous transitional designs would connect various organisms. Therefore, a large number of transitional creatures should appear in the fossil record. The near absence of transitional forms, one of the hallmark features of the fossil record, stands in sharp contrast to the expectations of evolution.

Rearranging Designs

Efficient search among the robotic design possibilities appears to be dependent upon the dramatic rearrangement of designs with each generation. The algorithm employed by the Brandeis researchers modified, deleted, added, and relocated the components of successful designs after each round of evaluations. In biological systems, no mechanism exists to produce these dramatic changes. Rather, the mechanism that produces biological change (mutations) can only yield small variations on existing biological features.

Final Comment

The Brandeis scientists set out to "evolve" movable robots apart from any human intervention. However, human influence, and hence, intelligent design, permeated the entire experimental setup:

1) the development and application of the genetic algorithm,

2) the choice of building blocks and selection criteria,

3) the manual addition of motors, and

4) the provision of materials for production of physical prototypes.

As one engineer from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) commented, "The resulting machines cannot match the complexity of the rapid-prototyping machine designed by human engineers that is required to do the actual fabrication."

The research program in artificial life will help researchers discover boundary conditions for natural biological processes. The results of this Brandeis study lead some scientists to anticipate that additional work will further challenge evolutionary theory and support the case for intelligent design.

www.reasons.org/resources/fff/2001issue05/index.shtml#evolving_robots[/size]

Holy smokes. That is a long enough post that I might think you are serious about the title...

The Golem Project Harms Evolutionary Ideas?

a lot of the above is restating of wrong assumptions about the experiment. its interpeting weakly. sum things r true, like the absence of transitional fossils but it is overly simplified. the only creative thing there i think is the setting up of boundary conditions.

one thing i find wierd is that when it isnt TRADIOTIONAL evolution, why is it assumed that the only available alternative is intelligent design???? that is just ridiculous, if taken literally than its true that currently, sum kind of guiding variable wud make sense. but the phrase "intelligent design" implied multiple things which are far more unlikely than traditional evolution if not at all impossible to begin with.

so no, those interpretations, even if considered correct are not SUPPORT for intelligent design if intelligent design is considered as it normally is.

So scientists find a robotic way to show how evolution works, and ID advocates try to spin it sideways? Nice.

nature offers no "intelligence" or process to select the appropriate building blocks to ensure the availability of the largest number of workable design options.
...that would be natural selection providing the "intelligence." The rest are the same ID arguments that have been recycled for a couple decades now. Any self-respecting biologist can not only answer the question, but does so with very little trouble.

But we don't need robots for this either. We've observed "real" evolution in fruit flies in a controlled setting, whose life spans are so short that we can monitor progress through generations.

Evolution's a fact. The God of the Gaps theory is a convenient hiding place for ID'ists that cling tenuously to whatever they can, but they have never offered one iota of evidence for their theory...they just attempt to bring down the opposing, as so far correct, theory. This is no different. Even if evolving bots didn't support evolution (maybe they're neutral on the issue) it also doesn't support ID.

Well, either the Robots will destroy us like in Terminator.

Or they will please and serve us like in Dune.

Or they will take over our jobs...thus creating a world in which a proletariat will no longer have any means of survival.

Pick one and have fun with it.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarfEvilTwin

Never understood why I remember the sequel more than the original.

Re: "Evolving" Robots Challenge Evolution

Originally posted by ushomefree
www.reasons.org/resources/fff/2001issue05/index.shtml#evolving_robots
Fail. doped

Re: Re: "Evolving" Robots Challenge Evolution

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Fail. doped

Agreed... from the website:

"What we believe"

"We believe the Bible (the 66 books of the Old and New Testaments) is the Word of God, written. As a "God-breathed" revelation, it is thus verbally inspired and completely without error (historically, scientifically, morally, and spiritually) in its original writings. While God the Holy Spirit supernaturally superintended the writing of the Bible, that writing nevertheless reflects the words and literary styles of its individual human authors. Scripture reveals the being, nature, and character of God, the nature of God's creation, and especially His will for the salvation of human beings through Jesus Christ. The Bible is therefore our supreme and final authority in all matters that it addresses."

They lack the ability to look at something objectively; it's not very "scientific", if you ask me.

Re: Re: Re: "Evolving" Robots Challenge Evolution

Originally posted by Robtard
Agreed... from the website:

"What we believe"

"We believe the Bible (the 66 books of the Old and New Testaments) is the Word of God, written. As a "God-breathed" revelation, it is thus verbally inspired and completely without error (historically, scientifically, morally, and spiritually) in its original writings. While God the Holy Spirit supernaturally superintended the writing of the Bible, that writing nevertheless reflects the words and literary styles of its individual human authors. Scripture reveals the being, nature, and character of God, the nature of God's creation, and especially His will for the salvation of human beings through Jesus Christ. The Bible is therefore our supreme and final authority in all matters that it addresses."

They lack the ability to look at something objectively; it's not very "scientific", if you ask me.

Yes, science does not respect belief, it respects nature as it is observed.

Re: "Evolving" Robots Challenge Evolution

Originally posted by ushomefree
www.reasons.org/resources/fff/2001issue05/index.shtml#evolving_robots[/size] [/B]

There is a difference between "challenging evolution" and "having no real impact on evolution," whob.

my fav thing is when people use simulations to prove things in real life right or wrong. calculations are not always 100 % accurate. besides there are so many other factors. it doesnt take in weather envirnment predators prey etc. evolution is a fact like digimark stated.

if there is a god, maybe lets think about this people, he made creatures able to (*GASP*) evolve

Originally posted by chickenlover98
my fav thing is when people use simulations to prove things in real life right or wrong. calculations are not always 100 % accurate. besides there are so many other factors. it doesnt take in weather envirnment predators prey etc. evolution is a fact like digimark stated.

if there is a god, maybe lets think about this people, he made creatures able to (*GASP*) evolve

Edit

Originally posted by chickenlover98

my fav thing is when people use simulations to prove things in real life right or wrong. calculations are not always 100 % accurate. besides there are so many other factors. it doesnt take in weather envirnment predators prey etc. evolution is a fact like digimark stated.

if there is a god, maybe lets think about this people, he made creatures able to (*GASP*) evolve

As confirmed by science, organisms do evolve, but only on a micro level, not a macro level. Why? Because the genome (the total sum of biochemical information) of any organism does not allow the possibility; in order for macroevolution to be possible, "new" biochemical information would have to be introduced, and such does not occur in nature. All science confirms are variations of "pre-existing" biochemical information, better known as microevolution. For example: there are over hundreds of dog species, but they are all dogs. And always will be. Dogs will not develop wings, gills, or a third eye regardless of their environment and time. The genome of a dog lacks the information needed to produce such characteristics. Understand?

Originally posted by ushomefree
As confirmed by science, organisms do evolve, but only on a micro level, not a macro level. Why? Because the genome (the total sum of biochemical information) of any organism does not allow the possibility; in order for macroevolution to be possible, "new" biochemical information would have to be introduced, and such does not occur in nature. All science confirms are variations of "pre-existing" biochemical information, better known as microevolution. For example: there are over hundreds of dog species, but they are all dogs. And always will be. Dogs will not develop wings, gills, or a third eye regardless of their environment and time. The genome of a dog lacks the information needed to produce such characteristics. Understand?

You are wrong. Cats and dog have a common ancestor. Sure dogs can't become cats and cats can't become dogs, but long ago there was an animal that became both cats and dogs. You are looking at the tree of life in a backward way.

Originally posted by ushomefree
As confirmed by science, organisms do evolve, but only on a micro level, not a macro level. Why? Because the genome (the total sum of biochemical information) of any organism does not allow the possibility; in order for macroevolution to be possible, "new" biochemical information would have to be introduced, and such does not occur in nature. All science confirms are variations of "pre-existing" biochemical information, better known as microevolution. For example: there are over hundreds of dog species, but they are all dogs. And always will be. Dogs will not develop wings, gills, or a third eye regardless of their environment and time. The genome of a dog lacks the information needed to produce such characteristics. Understand?

Ever heard of mutation?

Mutations: www.darwinismrefuted.com/mechanisms06.html

Originally posted by ushomefree
Mutations: www.darwinismrefuted.com/mechanisms06.html

About the author:
Harun Yahya is a pen name used by Mr. Adnan Oktar.

Born in Ankara in 1956, Adnan Oktar is a prominent Turkish intellectual. Completely devoted to moral values and dedicated to communicating the sacred values he cherishes to other people, Oktar started his intellectual struggle in 1979 during his education at Mimar Sinan University's Academy of Fine Arts. During his university years, he carried out detailed research into the prevalent materialistic philosophies and ideologies around him, to the extent of becoming even more knowledgeable about them than their advocates. As a result of his accumulation of knowledge, he has written various books on the fallacy of the theory of evolution. His dedicated intellectual effort against Darwinism and materialism has grown out to be a worldwide phenomenon. Quoting from the 22 April 2000 issue of New Scientist, Mr. Oktar became an "international hero" in communicating the fallacy of the theory of evolution and the fact of creation. The author's intellectual struggle against materialism and Darwinism has frequently been mentioned in such mainly evolutionist publications as National Geographic, Science, New Scientist and NSCE Reports. The English and German editions of the November, 2004, issue of National Geographic referred to the author's works concerning the Fact of Creation. The following quotation from the book The Evolution Deceit was also included: "The theory of evolution is nothing but a deception imposed on us by the dominators of the world system." The author has also produced various works on Zionist racism and Freemasonry and their negative effects on world history and politics. The Zionism criticised by the author in his books is the baseless claims of Zionist extremists pretend to world sovereignty, regard other human beings as worthless entities, maintain that the Jews are the chosen people and that God is theirs alone. Yet the author's writings very definitely do not imply a rejection of the Jews' right to live in peace and security within the borders of their own state.

Originally posted by ushomefree
Mutations: www.darwinismrefuted.com/mechanisms06.html

Not all mutations are harmful (having part of the sickle cell mutation leads to immunity to certain diseases, having a large penis is benifical in finding a mate, different skin colors are preferable in different environments)

Really anyone who's made it through junior-high in a western nation can see the massive holes in those claims. Not to mention out and out lies.

Originally posted by: Symmetric Chaos

Not all mutations are harmful (having part of the sickle cell mutation leads to immunity to certain diseases, having a large penis is benifical in finding a mate, different skin colors are preferable in different environments)

Really anyone who's made it through junior-high in a western nation can see the massive holes in those claims. Not to mention out and out lies.

Everything you stated are perfect examples of [size=6]"microevolution," not macroevolution.[/size]

Originally posted by ushomefree

Everything you stated are perfect examples of [size=6]"microevolution," not macroevolution.[/size]

There is no difference between microevolution and macroevolution. The distinction is man made, just like the idea of species is also man made. There is no real barrier between one species and another. This barrier is only in the minds of humans. Nature will do what it does. If there is a way, nature will find it, given enough time.

So ushomefree, how old is the Earth?