Plenty of language can be confusing. I'm afraid you have to live with that, too. Try explaining 'awfully nice' to someone learning the language (which I have had to do, incidentally).
But that changes nothing- the fact of the matter is that the phrase "I could care less" means "I couldn't care less". It's just one of those things abput the way language develops.
Originally posted by Bardock42
No.Of course you value your opinion more. I value mine more, you can convince me with arguments though if you would like to. And it does matter, as the phrase has not developed to be exchangeable. It is used wrongly at various times.
I wouldn't be. It would still be the person using a phrase that means the opposite of what they try to say.
I don't believe for one moment you are actually willing to listen to my arguments, seeing as I have already advanced some and you just ignored them. I suspect you don't understand and I don;t have the patience to take it through with you in minute detail. But you are simply wrong and I am exceptionally confident in that. All I can do is recomemnd you read my posts again and try to get the point about language acqusition and duplication of observed meaning, and try to get away from the kindergarten idea that there is a general trend of people making such a crass error.
You insist that is is not interchangeable. Fine. Some people can insist the sky is yellow if they want; makes no difference to the truth.
You say people are using someting that means the opposite of what they are trying to say. In any meaningful sense, you are absolutely and totally wrong there s well.
It's an attitude worthy of great contempt and shows a lack of intellectual approach.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Plenty of language can be confusing. I'm afraid you have to live with that, too. Try explaining 'awfully nice' to someone learning the language (which I have had to do, incidentally).But that changes nothing- the fact of the matter is that the phrase "I could care less" means "I couldn't care less". It's just one of those things abput the way language develops.
It doesn't though. "I could care less" still means "I could care less", which is good, as it is quite useful if you want to say that you would be able to care less about a subject. Of course, if used sarcastically, it could mean the opposite, but if it is not used that way, it often doesn't say what the speaker means.
Originally posted by Bardock42
It doesn't though. "I could care less" still means "I could care less", which is good, as it is quite useful if you want to say that you would be able to care less about a subject. Of course, if used sarcastically, it could mean the opposite, but if it is not used that way, it often doesn't say what the speaker means.
No, it CAN mean the literal "I could care less."
But as generally used, it does not.
You really have to wrap your head around langauge. You're still stuck on this sarcasm thing; it is absurd.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
I don;t believe for one moment you are actually willing to listen to my arguments, seeing as I have already advanced some and you just ignored tyhem. I suspect you domn;t understand and I don;t have the patience to take it through with you in minute detail. But you are simply wrong and I am exceptionally confident in that.
I don't think you have given any arguments. You have proposed a theory just like the one I believe in. Yours is no better founded than the one I support.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
You inssist that is is not interchangeable. Fine. Some people can insist the sky is yellow if they want; makes no difference to the truth.
True, but it is exactly what you are doing when you claim something to be a fact which isn't, without giving any sort of evidence. So we should call that one even.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
You say people are using someting that means the opposite of what they are trying to say. In any meaningful sense, you are absolutely and totally wrong there s well.
Nope. I am right.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
It's an attitude worthy of great contempt and shows a lack of intellectual approach.
Well, thanks for judging my character, but that doesn't make your position any less wrong or unsupported by facts.
Originally posted by UshgarakIt generally means what it literally says though. It is just sometimes used by people who mean to say "I couldn't care less", but fail at it.
No, it CAN mean the literal "I could care less."But as generally used, it does not.
You really have to wrap your head around langauge. You're still stuck on this sarcasm thing; it is absurd.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Try explaining 'awfully nice' to someone learning the language (which I have had to do, incidentally).
The phrase "awfully nice" means exactly what it says, so nice as to cause awe. The fact that "awful" is better known with a negative connotation doesn't change that the language does not require it to have a negative meaning.
"I could care less" and "I could not care less" are not made up of words that can be misinterpreted.
No, it does not generally mean that. For sure, it MUCH more commonly means the opposite.
My stance is backed by me actually knowing what I am talking about, and understanding language, and having both studied and being qualified in that area, and knowing the way language evolves and changes and most importantly the way it absolutey does not work, which is the way you are saying it is. Furthermore it is based upon having read about the origins of the term as we can trace it back. Frankly I don't give a tiny toss about your dismissal of my opinion- you are simply speaking in ignorance. The amusing thing is how you really like to look down on people using such a phrase; watching such unbridled ignorant arrogance- smug too- always raises a smile.
Why you cannot accept these things happen in language is beyond me. What about "Tell me about it?" Can be meant literally, Very, very often means the opposite- "You don't need to tell me about it." You cannot possibly complain about the caring phrase but accept that and maintain any amount of intellecutal credibility. And you will find you use such phrases all the time.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The phrase "awfully nice" means exactly what it says, so nice as to cause awe. The fact that "awful" is better known with a negative connotation doesn't change that the language does not require it to have a negative meaning."I could care less" and "I could not care less" are not made up of words that can be misinterpreted.
You've tried to be clever there but failed utterly, which you would not have done if you had paid attention to what I said.
The semantic origin of 'awfully' is neither here nor there. The meaning of the word is negative.
All of this looking down on the term is simple ignorance.
Originally posted by UshgarakActually you are probably right, it has found it's way into day to day language, as much as I might disapprove of it.
No, it does not generally mean that. For sure, it MUCH more commonly means the opposite.My stance is backed by me actually knowing what I am talking about, and understanding language, and having both studied and being qualified in that area, and knowing the way language evolves and changes and most importantly the way it absolutey does not work, which is the way you are saying it is. Furthermore it is based upon having read about the origins of the term as we can trace it back. Frankly I don't give a tiny toss about your dismissal of my opinion- you are simply speaking in ignorance. The amusing thing is how you really like to look down on people using such a phrase; watching such unbridled ignorant arrogance- smug too- always raises a smile.
Why you cannot accept these things happen in language is beyond me. What about "Tellk me about it?" Can be meant literally, Very, very often means the opposite- "You don't need to tell me about it."
Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, it does not generally mean that. For sure, it MUCH more commonly means the opposite.My stance is backed by me actually knowing what I am talking about, and understanding language, and having both studied and being qualified in that area, and knowing the way language evolves and changes and most importantly the way it absolutey does not work, which is the way you are saying it is. Furthermore it is based upon having read about the origins of the term as we can trace it back. Frankly I don't give a tiny toss about your dismissal of my opinion- you are simply speaking in ignorance. The amusing thing is how you really like to look down on people using such a phrase; watching such unbridled ignorant arrogance- smug too- always raises a smile.
Why you cannot accept these things happen in language is beyond me. What about "Tellk me about it?" Can be meant literally, Very, very often means the opposite- "You don't need to tell me about it."
I really do wish you'd stop bringing personal experience with language into the debate, it holds these horrible connotations of elitism on your part.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
You've tried to be clever there but failed utterly, which you would not have done if you had paid attention to what I said.The semantic origin of 'awfully' is neither here nor there. The meaning of the word is negative.
Not according to my dictionary. Unless you consider awe to be inherently negative.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Not according to my dictionary. Unless you consider awe to be inherently negative.
"Awfully' is the adverb of 'awful' which by any meaningful or logical definition is a negative term.
As foir what Bardock says... that's a much more reasonable position. Disapprove away. I disapprove of split infinitives but I am stuck with them.
Still, if you are unable to grasp the point behind 'awfully nice', what about 'pretty ugly'?
These contradictions happen. As ever... you just have to get used to it. "Could care less" looks like it is opposite but it's just cultural intolerance to dismiss it. It has a meaning and it is used for that meaning. And it has been used long enough and widespread enough to become a term that has gained that recognition.
Well, for sure- you can get really, REALLY lost putting blind faith in a dictionary without context.
You will not find one person in a hundred who uses 'awful' to mean 'full of awe' rather than 'a bad thing'.
And by extension, the same with 'awfully'.
At which point your definition doesn't mean shit.
Oh what do you know! I mean it DOES mean shit, don't I? See?
Originally posted by Ushgarak
If I wanted a Physics question answered I'd trust the opinion of the physicist. You use the term 'elitism' merely because you dislike the idea in this case that someone might actually be educated in the area and know what they are talking about. That, I am afraid, is a fact of life.
You may well be more educated in it, yes, you may well also just be lying through your teeth.
The fact remains however, that though it may have found a place within modern language, it is not good English, just as phrases like 'pimp ass ho' aren't good English. They may well be used a lot, but it doesn't mean we should all shrug our shoulders and say ''if it's used, it's good''. I believe this thread's about good use of the English language, not acceptable through majority usage.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Still, if you are unable to grasp the point behind 'awfully nice', what about 'pretty ugly'?
You are joking right? 😕
Originally posted by Ushgarak
These contradictions happen. As ever... you just have to get used to it. "Could care less" looks like it is opposite but it's just cultural intolerance to dismiss it. It has a meaning and it is used for that meaning.
Of course. And I have.
But the point's you are using to defend that position are, in my opinion, rather poor. Unlike most of the other apparent contradictions in language "I could care less" can't be traced back to the haphazard construction of English.
That;s vague nonsense talk. 'Haphazard construction of English' is just a cover for any form of language development. The way 'could care less' came about could easily be called part of such a haphazard construction- as with "Do you Mind?" and "tell me about it."
And I am not joking at all about 'pretty ugly'. Again- explain it to someone learning the language. It is a complete reversal of the expected use of the term.