Power vs. Speed?

I once was reading the rules to a marvel card playing game (I think the game resembled pokeman in some way). Anyway, I vaguely remember that if a character, who's speed is a 7 (>=lightspeed), went up against another character who's speed <7 then the former character automatically won by default, regardless of the powerset of the latter character. At first, I thought this was unfair and false. I mean what if the lower speed character had more than enough power to take the higher speed guy out?
After watching justice league unlimited, where Flash is trapped with such a speed that everyone around him is statues. It then hit me on the head as to why this rule is right. It is because if one can move at a superior speed than another then it is just the same as if the one had stopped time on the other. The other wouldn't' get a chance to even do anything (regardless of his/her power).

Also I am a former master at Street Fighter II (The World Warrior and Championship Edition). In my lifetime, I pulled off every combo imaginable with every character. With certain characters, if I hit you once then you automatically lose the game. This is because after the first hit I would string in another hit before you can recover and then string in one to a few more until you were dizzy. Then while you are dizzy, I would perform the combo once more, making you ko and lose the round. People hated that. I mean it was the same as beating someone with one hit everytime.

With that said here are the questions:

1. Given that two characters (A and B) have the power to hurt and ko the other, if A had superior speed over B and B had superior power over A then who wins?

2. If A hit B first (because they are faster) then does A automatically win after the first hit? Why or why not?

My answer to 1. is yes and my answer to 2. is yes because of the combo to ko principle.

The reason I created this thread is that I feel most people on this forum are usually the fallacy that great power>>>>>sufficient speed all the time. So if someone can give me some insight to where I'm going wrong then I would appreciate it. But please use good logic (no fallacies) to answer the questions (only if your answer is no to both).

Originally posted by h1a8
1. Given that two characters (A and B) have the power to hurt and ko the other, if A had superior speed over B and B had superior power over A then who wins?

In "reality" A would win because he would never be harmed and can fight at his leizure. On the other hand if A is sufficiently less powerdul than B he'll never harm B at all and eventually become tired and slow down to the point where B will strike him.

Originally posted by h1a8
2. If A hit B first (because they are faster) then does A automatically win after the first hit? Why or why not?

Of course not. You can't assume that a person in a fight will automatically go for a chain of hits, real people don't fight like that. If A did just keep striking without giving B a chance to react then he would win.

Basically you fail because trying to generalize is stupid.

There is no logic in video games or comics so it shouldn't be compared to real life.

Get a life!

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
In "reality" A would win because he would never be harmed and can fight at his leizure. On the other hand if A is sufficiently less powerdul than B he'll never harm B at all and eventually become tired and slow down to the point where B will strike him.

Of course not. You can't assume that a person in a fight will automatically go for a chain of hits, real people don't fight like that. If A did just keep striking without giving B a chance to react then he would win.

Basically you fail because trying to generalize is stupid.

But I said, "Given that A and B have the power to hurt (ko) the other ".
That means that B doesn't have a durability where A will run out of energy before B is koed. Otherwise, A loses to sufficient power.

Of course one can choose to not chain hits together. But here on KMC characters are to use the optimal strategy in order to win. And planning before the bell is allowed. So if its in a character to chain hits together then they will certainly go with that strategy on a KMC fight.

Originally posted by endrict
There is no logic in video games or comics so it shouldn't be compared to real life.

Get a life!

If there were no logic then we wouldn't play nor read such things.
logically impossible is not the same as factually impossible. The former doesn't exist anywhere and the latter exists in comics and video games.

With that said, not everything in comics or video games is not the exact same as real life. Actually combos are more real and dramatic in real life then in any comic, movie, or video game. So if a combo works in a video game then it would work more than 10x better in real life. Your assumption of the opposite is clearly wrong.

I think this is a thinly veiled Spider-Man vs. Wolverine thread.

😖hifty:

Anyway, Pete for the win.

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Originally posted by h1a8
1. Given that two characters (A and B) have the power to hurt and ko the other, if A had superior speed over B and B had superior power over A then who wins?

2. If A hit B first (because they are faster) then does A automatically win after the first hit? Why or why not?

My answer to 1. is yes and my answer to 2. is yes because of the combo to ko principle.

The reason I created this thread is that I feel most people on this forum are usually the fallacy that great power>>>>>sufficient speed [B]all the time. So if someone can give me some insight to where I'm going wrong then I would appreciate it. But please use good logic (no fallacies) to answer the questions (only if your answer is no to both). [/B]

A powerful enough being should win simply because his opponent, no matter how fast he is, is simply not powerful enough to do any serious damage. On the other hand, if the faster opponent is within damage range, then he should win, because the more powerful being can't tag him and eventually will be worn down (if nothing else, by his own efforts to tag the other guy).

Omni-Directional Blast for the win!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😛

What if opponent B had the power precognition and could anticipate the oppent B's moves?😖hifty:

You mean.. like.. Hulk holding his hand out just at he right time so the Flash runs into it and clothesline's himself?

Originally posted by h1a8
With that said here are the questions:

1. Given that two characters (A and B) have the power to hurt and ko the other, if A had superior speed over B and B had superior power over A then who wins?

2. If A hit B first (because they are faster) then does A automatically win after the first hit? Why or why not?

My answer to 1. is yes and my answer to 2. is yes because of the combo to ko principle.

* A wins not because of "combo to ko" principle but because of this: "Given that two characters (A and B) have the power to hurt and ko the other"... 😉

Doesn't 'A' also have to make sure 'B' can't retaliate? 'A' could get in 3 really good hits that hurt, but don't daze/dizzy 'B'. Then all the more powerful 'B' has to do is get in one hit before/simultaneously as 'A' gets in hit 4. If 'B's first hit dazes/slows 'A' enough then 'B' could conceivably win.

3 hits and the other numbers are generalizations but just because 'A' can hurt 'B' doesn't mean the damage will rack up fast enough to put down 'B'.

BA vs WW? 😉

Originally posted by h1a8
1. Given that two characters (A and B) have the power to hurt and ko the other, if A had superior speed over B and B had superior power over A then who wins?

Of course that'd depend on the type of defense and type of attack too.

2. If A hit B first (because they are faster) then does A automatically win after the first hit? Why or why not?

Originally posted by 2damnloud
What if opponent B had the power precognition and could anticipate the oppent B's moves?😖hifty:

I mean... then B would need enough speed, mentally and physically, to react to it.

It depends on powerset. Speed and power are never the only factors.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
What if opponent B had the power precognition and could anticipate the oppent B's moves?😖hifty:

oh and power V speed is always going to favour power since speed is just a function of power (energy/muscles/stamina etc etc etc...).

but Speed v Strength/durability ... that would be an interesting one, only resolved by a sorta differential equation ✅.

Originally posted by Mindship
I don't see either case shutting-out the other. "Speed" is a simple, 1-dimensional quantity; "power" is complex and multidimensional (strength? durability? energy manip? combo?). And what are the relative energy levels between the sets?

A powerful enough being should win simply because his opponent, no matter how fast he is, is simply not powerful enough to do any serious damage. On the other hand, if the faster opponent is within damage range, then he should win, because the more powerful being can't tag him and eventually will be worn down (if nothing else, by his own efforts to tag the other guy).

It was given that A has the power to damage (ko) B.

Originally posted by Newjak
Omni-Directional Blast for the win!!!!!!!!!!!!! 😛

Originally posted by 2damnloud
What if opponent B had the power precognition and could anticipate the oppent B's moves?😖hifty:

Good question.
When the battle starts then even with precog then B is still reduced to a statue. Look at it this way; as soon as the battle starts, time stops for B, so it doesn't matter how much precog B has.

Originally posted by lft4ded
Doesn't 'A' also have to make sure 'B' can't retaliate? 'A' could get in 3 really good hits that hurt, but don't daze/dizzy 'B'. Then all the more powerful 'B' has to do is get in one hit before/simultaneously as 'A' gets in hit 4. If 'B's first hit dazes/slows 'A' enough then 'B' could conceivably win.

3 hits and the other numbers are generalizations but just because 'A' can hurt 'B' doesn't mean the damage will rack up fast enough to put down 'B'.

BA vs WW? 😉

A uses the combo to ko principle.
In other words, A continues to string hit after hit until B is koed.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
It would depend on the difference in speed and power. Unless you're meaning pure offensive power, B might have the defensive power to hang in there long enough and the speed/reaction margin is fairly small, B could proc a Puncher's Chance and win.

Of course that'd depend on the type of defense and type of attack too.

It could. Again, it depends on the differentials. And if you get down to the nitty gritty, there's little things that could realistically happen and change the outcome. A small slip, slightly mistiming something, etc. It's kind of based on luck but in the fight sports it's called Puncher's Chance.

[b]Flash would still win.

I mean... then B would need enough speed, mentally and physically, to react to it. [/B]

Good points.
Superior Speed is defined as a speed in which the other can't respond/react to within the standard battlefield distance of each other, no matter what the relative velocities of A and B are. So there will be no defensive options for B when the battle starts.

Now of course a slip for A where B is given time to recover will result in B winning. So for the sake of argument, lets assume that slips won't happen when someone is attacking (especially in comics). Better yet, let's either define the ground to be a ground such that it has sufficient traction for A to move or lets define A to fly if it is at all possible for him to slip.