Power vs. Speed?

Originally posted by janus77
opponent B better have some ability to anticipate opponent B's moves, or else it would call into question his sanity 😉.

oh and power V speed is always going to favour power since speed is just a function of power (energy/muscles/stamina etc etc etc...).

but Speed v Strength/durability ... that would be an interesting one, only resolved by a sorta differential equation ✅.

I defined A to have superior speed over B. So it doesn't matter how fast B is, A would still be moving at a speed in which B can't react to (as defined by Superior Speed ). So A has relative Superior Speed to B.

I also defined for A to be able to damage (ko) B. So it doesn't matter the lvl of durability that B has because A is defined to be able to hurt B.

Originally posted by h1a8
Good points.
[B]Superior Speed is defined as a speed in which the other can't respond/react to within the standard battlefield distance of each other, no matter what the relative velocities of A and B are. So there will be no defensive options for B when the battle starts.

Now of course a slip for A where B is given time to recover will result in B winning. So for the sake of argument, lets assume that slips won't happen when someone is attacking (especially in comics). Better yet, let's either define the ground to be a ground such that it has sufficient traction for A to move or lets define A to fly if it is at all possible for him to slip. [/B]

I guess yeah, if B can be hurt by A and has no available defense against A's attacks and sheer speed and the are no mistakes, and in the case of one hit KO's, A will never lose.

That's probably why people complain in Flash threads.

Durability does play a factor though. If B can take damage but is still tough enough to wade the storm for a while before he goes down a counter attack can still be made. Maybe not the best attack, because in this situation B is getting rattled constantly, but it could turn the tides.

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
Is "Superior Speed" a specific class or ranking or something in this card game you are talking about?

I guess yeah, if B can be hurt by A and has no available defense against A's attacks and sheer speed and the are no mistakes, and in the case of one hit KO's, A will never lose.

That's probably why people complain in Flash threads.

Durability does play a factor though. If B can take damage but is still tough enough to wade the storm for a while before he goes down a counter attack can still be made. Maybe not the best attack, because in this situation B is getting rattled constantly, but it could turn the tides.

There is an infinite difference between >=Lightspeed and <Lightspeed according to the speed of light being constant. For example, if you were traveling away from Earth at 5% the speed of light (very fast) and someone on Earth shot a beam of light pass you then you would measure the speed of that beam as the same speed as if you were standing still (which is the original speed of light). This is because the speed of light is constant relative to subluminal speeds. The marvel card game takes that into consideration when they made the rules to the speed issue.

A doesn't necessarilty need to one hit KO B to win. Do know know what the definition of a 'Combo' is? With the first hit A stuns B then A strings another hit fast enough before B can recover (keeping him in a stunned state). A continues in this fashion until B is koed. Taking damage here implies to be stunned in the process. For example, look at a simple three hit combo on Street Fighter II in slow motion. After Chun Li strikes Zangief in the chest with a jumping fierce (hard punch), his head reels in because of the force and being stunned. She then lands and follows it with a strong (spear hand) while his head is still reeling in (he's still in stun mode). This second hit causes his head to reel back now. Finally, she follows it with a fierce (lunging punch) while his head is reeling back (in stun mode again). This is a true combo.

The latter two hits are unstoppable after the first hit connects. Now if Zangief was able to block or counter after the first then either the latter hits wasn't fast enough or had no stunning effect. Thus is wasn't a combo by definition. But here A is fast enough and has the necessary power to stun B with each hit.

I think that this lies under certain stipulations and powersets, and certainly cannot be an universal truth in comic battles.

Lets for example that Odin battles Flash. Lets say their speed is not that different, lets say that Flash is 100 times faster than Odin for this, hence he would be to attack 100 times before Odin does his first one. The problem is that if Odin is battling at his best, Flash won't be able to survive the first attack, it can be of a nature that he can dodge or perceive, like pulling a Surfer and killing Flash's soul instead of his body. Given Odin's power set, will one hundred white stars kill him? Hell, no. No matter the skill advantage, Flash loses there.

Originally posted by h1a8
There is an infinite difference between >=Lightspeed and <Lightspeed according to the speed of light being constant. For example, if you were traveling away from Earth at 5% the speed of light (very fast) and someone on Earth shot a beam of light pass you then you would measure the speed of that beam as the same speed as if you were standing still (which is the original speed of light). This is because the speed of light is constant relative to subluminal speeds. The marvel card game takes that into consideration when they made the rules to the speed issue.

A doesn't necessarilty need to one hit KO B to win. Do know know what the definition of a 'Combo' is? With the first hit A stuns B then A strings another hit fast enough before B can recover (keeping him in a stunned state). A continues in this fashion until B is koed. Taking damage here implies to be stunned in the process. For example, look at a simple three hit combo on Street Fighter II in slow motion. After Chun Li strikes Zangief in the chest with a jumping fierce (hard punch), his head reels in because of the force and being stunned. She then lands and follows it with a strong (spear hand) while his head is still reeling in (he's still in stun mode). This second hit causes his head to reel back now. Finally, she follows it with a fierce (lunging punch) while his head is reeling back (in stun mode again). This is a true combo.

The latter two hits are unstoppable after the first hit connects. Now if Zangief was able to block or counter after the first then either the latter hits wasn't fast enough or had no stunning effect. Thus is wasn't a combo by definition. But here A is fast enough and has the necessary power to stun B with each hit.

Maybe B with the omnidirectional blast can fire one off while in a daze of a million blows, maybe he can't.

Flash Thordon FTW!

Originally posted by Doctor-Alvis
I did not know that.

I'm aware of what a combo is. I'm referencing the stunning effect when I say B is getting "rattled". The thing about Street Fighter, and other games, is your character is immobilized by the rules of the game. Outside of that, some people can keep themselves together while stunned and some lay on the ground stiff legged while swinging into the air.

Maybe B with the omnidirectional blast can fire one off while in a daze of a million blows, maybe he can't.

When I say stunned I'm not referring to the dizzy state.
I'm referring to the initial state of the blow that rocks the brain so that it can't operate at that instant. So the combos I'm strictly referring to are head combos (nothing but head shots). I only used Street Fighter as an example. In reality, someone will be knocked away from each hit. That is why I said that A is fast enough to string in another hit on B before B can recover . If B is able to think clearly to use his powers while A is hitting him then B recovered and this is against the hypothesis (either A wasn't fast enough or A wasn't strong enough).

Originally posted by 2damnloud
What if opponent B had the power precognition and could anticipate the oppent B's moves?😖hifty:

Mindship put it very well.

As for Pre-Cog, well ....unless B has the ability to use that pre-cog then it will not help him.
Imagine, for example, that Spiderman was fighting the Flash. Well, it really would be of no use. By the time his mind even receives that tingly feeling the Flash would have already clocked him from here to China.

for precog to help several factors have to be fully engaged:

i) The pre-cog has to be faster than the ability of your opponent to hurt you (otherwise it makes no sense if you are facing someone coming at you at lightspeed, when your precog works at the speed of a synapse firing in your neurons .....your precog will not even be registered before you are dead)

ii) You have to be fast enough you use that precog (otherwise, all it would do - and this is to assume that the precog is faster than your opponent - is simply tell you that you are about to die in the next fraction of a millisecond)

iii) Or your pre-cog is more like future forecasting (as in, its time period is very very long ....meaning that you know that 6 months from now the Flash will attack you, you know how he will attack, and that allows you to basically set a trap months ahead that will be exactly where the Flash will be. This is different from simply putting a sword or digging a pit, because the Flash would be able to avoid all of that ......it would have to be something one can only find in comics .....e.g. an anti-speedforce generator or something stupid like that. Because anything else, e.g. extending a sword at the place you know the Flash will be running through will be useless because even at his great speed the Flash will still dodge it)

Anyways, for pre-cog to work certain things have to be in place.

Also, speed will trump A LOT. Not everything (as mind ship said, the speedster still has to be able to hurt the powerful dude .....e.g. it doesn't matter how fast the Flash is ......he will not defeat the Living Tribunal), but in most cases having a high enough (say Flash/Zoom level) speed factor would enable one to basically fiddle with most characters.

Originally posted by h1a8
When I say stunned I'm not referring to the dizzy state.
I'm referring to the initial state of the blow that rocks the brain so that it can't operate at that instant. So the combos I'm strictly referring to are head combos (nothing but head shots). I only used Street Fighter as an example. In reality, someone will be knocked away from each hit. That is why I said that A is fast enough to string in another hit on B before B can recover . If B is able to think clearly to use his powers while A is hitting him then B recovered and this is against the hypothesis (either A wasn't fast enough or A wasn't strong enough).

But in the situation you're describe it sounds like a KO every hit.

It all depends on how much of a speed advantage one has over the other.

regardless of speed, strength, endurance, and durability play a huge factor here. Why?

The way comics are (often badly) written endurance doesn't usually come into play properly. In the real world speed attacks deplete endurance by an equal measure.

Example:

Someone like Quicksilver could strike Hulk thousands of times before taking a hit, but what does it matter if Hulk can endure a million strikes from QS, and only one eventual strike from Hulk would take him out. (plus each strike would actually be pissing Hulk off, in effect pumping him up?)

So obviously it purely depends on how much of an advantage one has over the other, and with speed it has to be an extreme edge, especially when the speed guy lacks durabilty, endurance etc.

And in the real world strength usally pwns speed. If you have one guy who is twice as strong, and one who is twice as fast, both equally conditioned....a real world close ranged fight favors the strength advantage, due to the fact that most fighters eventually take hits. Therefore the speed guy needs a larger speed advantage than the strength guy has.

faster guys usually = smaller more delicate frame.
stronger guys usually = more durable, tougher.