I've been largely absent discussions like this because I'm no longer sure comics promote things that should be promoted. Perhaps only the few people who have personally messaged me on off-topic matters have any real understanding of what I refer to. There's one poster in particular who I'd be interested in hearing from. Maybe he can convince me I shouldn't feel this conflict.
Nevertheless, I'll answer ONE post ... if only because I expect any particular response to be forgotten and snowed under in a few days given the sheer volume of traffic this thread's gotten these past weeks.
Originally posted by Surtur
I can't see why anyone who thinks WW will win would even want to cite the fight when Supes was controlled. Since that is an all or nothing type of think. You don't get to cherry pick feats, they all count. Which means Supes easily breaking her bones by squeezing is legit and counts.
That's easy. Sacrifice shows Superman murderously enraged and suncharged.
Put differently, it shows Superman at a level of physical power that is arguably at least 2 or 3 times greater than what we would normally see from him in any standard engagement. And it shows Diana taking everything he's able to bring against her in that engagement, despite this increased level of physical power, despite such proximity to the sun that one or more scenes appear like this:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13785106
... and, ultimately, stopping Superman with little more than one determined fling from her wrist.
Yes, she was in danger from her friend gone mad and aiming to kill her by any means it would take, that's what made the fight a compelling read.
Even so, Wondy was nevertheless rarely more than a tiara's toss away from killing Clark ... IF he absolutely needed to be put down ... but luckily he didn't.
If you want to objectively deny this, you need to come up with a good reason for why Max Lord released Superman -- despite initially REFUSING the request though bound with Diana's lasso just a few seconds prior.
He didn't protest long after her boomeranging throw slashed Clark's throat.
Max Lord had little doubt who the victor would have been at that point.
*(Edited in order to change text URL into a working image link.)
Originally posted by abhilegend
Except Zod suckered Superman and a straight fight, Superman kicked his ass.
Colossus can suckered shot Hulk any day of the week and Hulk bones will not be broken. Superman durability did not change when Zod did this. Anyways, a peer can break another peer bones. New 52 and post Superman has had broken bones from Zod. Also, a Probe broke Superman arm as well.
Originally posted by carver9
He did release him though.
Ok, I had misread, but not completely. She says "release him", and he does briefly, but says he'll never let him go. Diana kills him to permanently break his hold, so I ask, what does that have to do with who Max thought would win? Nothing, I would argue.
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I've been largely absent discussions like this because I'm no longer sure comics promote things that should be promoted. Perhaps only the few people who have personally messaged me on off-topic matters have any real understanding of what I refer to. There's one poster in particular who I'd be interested in hearing from. Maybe he can convince me I shouldn't feel this conflict.Nevertheless, I'll answer ONE post ... if only because I expect any particular response to be forgotten and snowed under in a few days given the sheer volume of traffic this thread's gotten these past weeks.
That's easy. Sacrifice shows Superman murderously enraged and suncharged.
Put differently, it shows Superman at a level of physical power that is arguably at least 2 or 3 times greater than what we would normally see from him in any standard engagement. And it shows Diana taking everything he's able to bring against her in that engagement, despite this increased level of physical power, despite such proximity to the sun that one or more scenes appear like this:http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=13785106
... and, ultimately, stopping Superman with little more than one determined fling from her wrist.
Yes, she was in danger from her friend gone mad and aiming to kill her by any means it would take, that's what made the fight a compelling read.
Even so, Wondy was nevertheless rarely more than a tiara's toss away from killing Clark ... IF he absolutely needed to be put down ... but luckily he didn't.
If you want to objectively deny this, you need to come up with a good reason for why Max Lord released Superman -- despite initially REFUSING the request though bound with Diana's lasso just a few seconds prior.
He didn't protest long after her boomeranging throw slashed Clark's throat.
Max Lord had little doubt who the victor would have been at that point.
*(Edited in order to change text URL into a working image link.)
The mental gymnastics and context ignoring people have to do to argue the SACRIFICE fight.
Prove that he was extra charged. The comic doesn't show they're right by the Sun. They're far too large compared to it and the thing that Wonder Woman has to hold the lead isn't effected. All there is is assumption because he intended to. You argue his INTENT to take her as proof he did, yet ignore the comic under the same writer that shows he wasn't going for an instant kill. And hard for me to think the writer intended him to be stronger than normal if it wasn't mentioned. The only, I repeat, ONLY argument you have was he was angry. Which also hurts your case.
Not only is there a lack of evidence supporting they were near the Sun, but "taking everything he's able to bring against her?" Even if, and this is a big if, we assume that he was extra charged by the Sun, she got struck a whole once. Freeze breath? Yeah, but freeze breath got an upgrade since. Wrist broken? Yep. But actually punched again? Hit by heat vision Nope. He was even heat visioning clouds. In all reality the only reason she survived is he was giving a speech.
And the only reason she got the tiara in was because of his mental state. If he actually knew he was fighting her, he easily could've dodged it or deflected it with his breath, I wouldn't be surprised about catching it.
In fact, it's funny you've before put such emphasis on the tiara while ignoring the circumstances. That one punch that Superman knocked her out with? Yeah, she was on the ground out of the fight for a few panels when he got to her. He did not go for an immediate kill. Had he when he got there, the fight would've ended about half-way through the comic.
So, what SACRIFICE proves is Wonder Woman can get overpowered easily by Superman(as he did three times in that), comparatively minor heat vision will by her words "burn to the bone," she can get KTFO with one punch(only to be awoken by reentry heat, that she can survive if he just stands there instead of killing her, she can break out of his Pre-INFINITE CRISIS era freeze breath, hurt him by doing the equivalent of bashing someone's ears boxing them style using two cast iron skillets and fail to knock him out even with a kick and punch to the head, avoid him when he thinks she's someone who is larger and not a Martial Artist, get her wrist broken by him squeezing it, annoy him with birds, and cut his throat when he thinks he's facing someone punching him. And she talks about how strong and fast and invulnerable he is, indicating she knows she's outmatched in stats.
But this, while technically a win, is somehow helping her case when it's clear that she's inferior to him and the situation hinders him.
Originally posted by carver9
I agree, Superman can break her bones. People in the same tier can harm each other to that extent. The same Superman got his jaw broken by one hit from Zod and Zod and Superman are peers.
Even if we ignore the context in them, what kind of IQ does someone have to have to think that breaking someone's jaw with a punch is the same as breaking someone's wrist by squeezing it? Oh, I guess someone whose username tells their IQ. vin
Originally posted by carver9
Colossus can suckered shot Hulk any day of the week and Hulk bones will not be broken. Superman durability did not change when Zod did this. Anyways, a peer can break another peer bones. New 52 and post Superman has had broken bones from Zod. Also, a Probe broke Superman arm as well.
😆 I like how you use a Mid-Tier punching Hulk who you think is like above Thanos as your argument, and use Post-FLASHPOINT Zod using a jointlock. Didn't I get you into watching MMA a couple years ago? You haven't learned a ****ing thing by watching it? Or are you just being dishonest?
Originally posted by carver9
Colossus can suckered shot Hulk any day of the week and Hulk bones will not be broken. Superman durability did not change when Zod did this. Anyways, a peer can break another peer bones. New 52 and post Superman has had broken bones from Zod. Also, a Probe broke Superman arm as well.
Just saw this.
So Imperiex Probes are still HH, peers to Supes, eh?
Guess when the dynamic brakes come off, Superman one shots countless HHs. Superman for Abstract/Trans.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't think it's unfair to say that Superman was hitting with a force he wouldn't usually use. He wasn't holding back, even if he wasn't in his right mind.Not his best, but not his average either.
Oh no, I agree he wouldn't be normal on that front. The problem is they're arguing, "Superman was Sun-Amped and all out and she still took everything he dished out!!" is even if we assume he was amped and going for the immediate kill, her "taking everything he threw at her" was one punch. That knocked her the **** out. Freeze breath got an upgrade after IC considering Bizarro and Brainiac, so that argument is moot, and she got her wrist broken, but that isn't a hit to the head.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Just saw this.So Imperiex Probes are still HH, peers to Supes, eh?
Guess when the dynamic brakes come off, Superman one shots countless HHs. Superman for Abstract/Trans.
Got the quote where carter protests you drafting Impereix Probes arguing "they're trans!!" when it suited him?
Originally posted by -Pr-
Carter's ranking of Imperiex Probes depends on what day of the week it is, it seems.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
'Oh no! Superman and Doomsday are coming for me! Luckily he is a high herald, and cannot ramp up. I must send out the weaker, Mid herald probes to attack them!They are getting closer! More mid-herald probes!'
😆
Originally posted by Delta1938
Oh no, I agree he wouldn't be normal on that front. The problem is they're arguing, "Superman was Sun-Amped and all out and she still took everything he dished out!!" is even if we assume he was amped and going for the immediate kill, her "taking everything he threw at her" was one punch. That knocked her the **** out. Freeze breath got an upgrade after IC considering Bizarro and Brainiac, so that argument is moot, and she got her wrist broken, but that isn't a hit to the head.
Yeah. She tanked it as much as Gladiator tanked that solar system destroying blast.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Just saw this.So Imperiex Probes are still HH, peers to Supes, eh?
Guess when the dynamic brakes come off, Superman one shots countless HHs. Superman for Abstract/Trans.
Buddy, it is 2016 and you're still ranting on about something that happened in 2015. Never met a guy like you. You won Darksaint. Is that what you want to hear so that you can move your KMC life forward. Everyonexoxo Darksaint wins. You are the reigning champion. Superman is abstract because the probes are Beyonder level. SH**
Oh, he was arguing they were shrugging off HH attacks.
But later on, when the issue of Superman's dynamic strength comes up, and the example of the Probes were used, mysteriously, Imperiex was sending out different, weaker probes.
Originally posted by carver9
And Imperiex probes are being drafted even though they were shaking off damage from high heralds.