Superman vs. Wonder Woman

Started by Diesldude155 pages

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
😕

Wait. What?

Am I really seeing this, or did I miss a post or two?

Want to be told I'm not seeing piracy, but ...

If the next message from Delta says Wonder Woman holds a large strength advantage over [b]Superman, or even a small one, I'll KNOW someone has taken over Delta's account.

Delta could NOT type that.
Wouldn't matter if Wonder Woman were shown moving Jupiter out of orbit ... [/B]

I think you got it backwards.

Delta was trying to imply that Superman(holding back) has a quite a bit advantage over WW. And I agree.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
😕

Wait. What?

Am I really seeing this, or did I miss a post or two?

Want to be told I'm not seeing piracy, but ...

If the next message from Delta says Wonder Woman holds a large strength advantage over [b]Superman, or even a small one, I'll KNOW someone has taken over Delta's account.

Delta could NOT type that.
Wouldn't matter if Wonder Woman were shown moving Jupiter out of orbit ... [/B]

I've seen the light. Blue, you were right all along. Wonder Woman is indeed stronger than Superman...........

..........actually, I was just saying it's hilarious carter thinks Superman's strength advantage is "small." And you misread it.

And Kitty-Cat, I'll get back to you on your hilarious interpretation of SACRIFICE after I wake-up.

Wonder Woman is going to have to be fighting to the absolute best of her abilities and equipment to defeat a Superman fighting like a brute. Which is what happened in the two "Doomsday" fights she had against Superman. She fought to her best abilities both times and Superman was reduced to basically strength and power. And she still took an absolute trashing in the process.

So on that front she can do well, if keeping consciousness is doing well. But the second he's in a capable mind state he is going to trash her as he can counter her lasso, any swords, or the like as shown in comics as well. At that juncture it's basically reducing WW to purely skill vs the full range of Superman's abilities. Which does not end well for her as again evidenced in the exact same fights used to give her the nod over him.

Also 66 pages.

Originally posted by carver9
She held back in Sacrifice against an all out Superman that was possibly amped and she still won in the end. Wasnt that their last fight against each other?

😂

I'll say one thing, you never give up, do you.

Originally posted by -Pr-
😂

I'll say one thing, you never give up, do you.

That's what makes him what he is. I hope he never changes. 😂

Originally posted by -Pr-
😂

I'll say one thing, you never give up, do you.

😠

Let me mess with Delta.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Wonder Woman is going to have to be fighting to the absolute best of her abilities and equipment to defeat a Superman fighting like a brute. Which is what happened in the two "Doomsday" fights she had against Superman. She fought to her best abilities both times and Superman was reduced to basically strength and power. And she still took an absolute trashing in the process.

So on that front she can do well, if keeping consciousness is doing well. But the second he's in a capable mind state he is going to trash her as he can counter her lasso, any swords, or the like as shown in comics as well. At that juncture it's basically reducing WW to purely skill vs the full range of Superman's abilities. Which does not end well for her as again evidenced in the exact same fights used to give her the nod over him.

Also 66 pages.

What fights are you talking about? Are you talking about her fight when he was Doomsday out? Wouldn't you consider that an amp? If not, Diana did grow in power since then. I admit, he did have a good showing against her during one occasion when she came shielded up. Diana power fluctuates. Sometimes writers have her hanging with the big guys then some writes her a notch under.

Originally posted by carver9
😠

Let me mess with Delta.

😂 You are not messing with no one.

You are like the intellectually challenged cousin everybody loves

==================================

@-Pr-

Where is that thread you have on you profile where you owned Quani.

I have to read that first hand 😂

Originally posted by Rao Kal El

You are like the intellectually challenged cousin everybody loves

This is phucked up. Leave him alone man.

Originally posted by Diesldude
This is phucked up. Leave him alone man.

🙄 You see what I mean? herbdance

... You know I am just kidding Carver, most of us like you.

Originally posted by carver9
What fights are you talking about? Are you talking about her fight when he was Doomsday out? Wouldn't you consider that an amp? If not, Diana did grow in power since then. I admit, he did have a good showing against her during one occasion when she came shielded up. Diana power fluctuates. Sometimes writers have her hanging with the big guys then some writes her a notch under.
Tell you what Carver, I'll make this easy for you here, as it seems that comic is inexplicably missing for no reason from my HD

You post any sort of scan to even imply Superman was amped in that fight, and I'll accept it as complete fact.

Same with WW growing in power.

Here's your chance. I didn't even look at the fight. Go ahead.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Tell you what Carver, I'll make this easy for you here, as it seems that comic is inexplicably missing for no reason from my HD

You post any sort of scan to even imply Superman was amped in that fight, and I'll accept it as complete fact.

Same with WW growing in power.

Here's your chance. I didn't even look at the fight. Go ahead.

It was never stated he was amped. I thought his appearance and who he resembled was proof enough. Guess not.

😕

Originally posted by carver9
It was never stated he was amped. I thought his appearance and who he resembled was proof enough. Guess not.

😕

Carver, when superman is close to the sun, doesn't he get sun amped?

When he punched WW from the sun to the earth, wasn't he close to the sun? He was right ? Shouldn't he have gotten an amp there?

Originally posted by Diesldude
Carver, when superman is close to the sun, doesn't he get sun amped?

When he punched WW from the sun to the earth, wasn't he close to the sun? He was right ? Shouldn't he have gotten an amp there?

Yeah but I think Bran is talking about Wonder Woman fight against a Superman that was turning into/looked like Doomsday.

Originally posted by carver9
Yeah but I think Bran is talking about Wonder Woman fight against a Superman that was turning into/looked like Doomsday.

My bad, wrong fight.

OK Kitty-Cat. Branny covered a lot of stuff I'll be pointing-out, but I'll be going into detail and showing you the full fight.

Originally posted by Lil' Kitten
She held back in Sacrifice against an all out Superman that was possibly amped and she still won in the end. Wasnt that their last fight against each other?

"She held back" and "Superman was all-out." These are two things that are cited out of context. I'll get to the "she held back" part later, but I'll cover the "Superman went all-out" now.

Now, yes, Superman was enraged, thinking Wonder Woman was Doomsday, and Doomsday had just killed Lois. But, it's not quite how you make it out. He wanted Doomsday to suffer, first.

So, going by that, while Superman was enraged and wanted to kill, he couldn't QUITE be going all-out if he wanted to make her(believing she was Doomsday) suffer first. But anyways, onto the fight.

You claim Superman has "small" strength advantage. The very fight started with Superman grabbing her by the throat and dragging her into space.

See how her hands are on his wrists? Well, what she's ATTEMPTING to do is very much the same technique as the choke defense of Krav Maga(and I'm sure other reality based self-defense Martial Arts). This technique actually lets you break the grip of a STRONGER attacker.

YouTube video

Considering that you can break the grip of a stronger opponent with the technique that Diana is attempting to use, and she's not able to succeed, and this was before the "possible amp," either Superman is significantly stronger than her, or Amazons are significantly inferior fighters to Israeli soldiers and cops.

Now, it does APPEAR that they're near the Sun when Diana uses eye gouging and apparently a knee to the groin to get out of the choke, but the metal box(almost certainly lead) doesn't melt.

This coupled with the fact that nothing about him being Sun amped or stronger than normal or anything like that mentioned leads me to believe they were in space, but not near the Sun like everybody assumes. Anyways, back to showing the fight.

Diana tries to use the Kryptonite on Superman, to no real effect.

He one-shot KOs her. People try to argue it's a "flash KO" and she was barely unconscious. But they leave-out Diana's own narration that it's reentry heat that wakes her up. She doesn't recover on her own. Not to mention, look how long she's down and out of the fight until she finally gets up, despite being conscious.

CONTINUED

So, then she sneaks-up on him and bashes his hears with her bracelets.

And then starts attacking him.

Now, remember when I brought-up the whole "she was holding back" thing people take out of context? Yeah, go ahead and read what she says after "I hold back." Done? She says, "Barely." She said "Barely ." Now Superman didn't quite go all-out, wanting Doomsday to suffer, and Wonder Woman barely held back. Not quite what you made it out to be, was it?

Also, see how she sneaks-up on him, bashes her bracelets between his ears(a very vulnerable area), hurts him but doesn't take him out, and follows this up with a kick to the head, a kick to a nerve cluster in the leg(although not going to add to the head damage), and slamming his head into the ground. And she STILL fails to take him out. If she were close to him physically, how did she failed to knock him out? That would be like me coming up behind you, bashing your head(aiming for the ears) between two cast iron skillets, kicking you in the head and slamming your head into the ground. You think you'd still be conscious with the sneak iron skillet attack? I doubt it, let alone the follow-ups. And, this isn't even taking into account how he thought he was facing Doomsday. Do you think even if he were thinking clearly(aside from believing she's Doomsday), he would expect stealth and tactics from Doomsday? No, he would not. Hell, she says, "He's SO strong." Not "he's so strong, because of extra SOLAR ENERGY" or anything indicating he was boosted. Do you think she would be speaking in awe of his strength if she were close to him? I could see if she was close to him under normal circumstances and he were amped, but again, nothing really beyond assumption from the art that he was amped, as it wasn't cited and the box for the Kryptonite wasn't melted.

Anyways, we see him get back up. What happens after? Max takes over and directs his movements. But remember, he's still not in his right mind, both because he's irrational with rage and grief, and thinks he's facing Doomsday.

He still grabs her by the wrist and casually breaks it by merely squeezing. Arguably through her bracelet. Again, if Wonder Woman were physically close to him, do you think he could just break her wrist like that? And again an example of him not being in his right mind, he freaking is heat visioning clouds. He also misses her with another heat vision attack after. Maybe she dodges it, but it looked to me like he was missing because he thought she was Doomsday, and Doomsday is a lot bigger than her. Anyways, she gets a bunch of birds to annoy him as a distraction, and goes to Max.

And Superman comes in and she uses his tiara to cut his throat.

But really, do yo think if Superman was aware she was tossing his tiara at him, he couldn't have deflected it with his breath or simply dodged it? He most certainly could've. Also worth noting, is her tiara attack did not incapacitate him, it merely snapped him out of the illusion. He was not sure what was going on, just had it revealed to him, no, Lois didn't die, so it was like an adrenalin dump and emotional relief at once. Hell, after she killed Max, he was healed and slamming her in the wall.

[url]http://s1199.photobucket.com/user/Delta1938/slideshow/Healing%20Factor/Heals%20Slit%20Throat%20In%20Moments

But hey, he was going all out, she was holding back, he didn't put her down, she embarrassed him and incapacitated him with a throat slash, he was probably amped, and his mental state and the fact that he thought he was fighting a mindless, massive brute instead of an intelligent, far smaller, skilled warrior have absolutely no impact on the fight whatsoever. 'Cuz that helps Kitty-Cat's argument. RIGHT?

Originally posted by carver9
Yeah but I think Bran is talking about Wonder Woman fight against a Superman that was turning into/looked like Doomsday.

Wonder Woman #174 and #175, Volume 2.

A male version of the Cheetah named Sebastian Ballesteros overpowers Superman at Circe's command. With Superman commenting that the Ballesteros Cheetah "has a punch like Captain Marvel or Diana".

Yet Ballesteros Cheetah worries that Wonder Woman, with her strength and speed, will tear apart their ship. Circe assures him that will not happen.
Mainly, the next scene makes fairly clear, because Diana's friend Vanessa has been tortured with technological devices and been made into the Silver Swan and the only cure is to be found in that ship. Diana therefore can't destroy it for fear of trapping her friend in that wretched state.

Interestingly, Circe has managed to capture Lex Luthor. And turned him into a monster with a spider's body. The bestiamorph spell may or may not have derived from Martians like J'onn Jonnz originally, as Circe herself speculates.

Lex manages to capture Ballesteros Cheetah with his webbing, and the webbing holds Ballesteros Cheetah despite the fact that BC had not long before proved himself stronger than Superman, or at least trashed Superman after knocking him around and holding him without much effort.

So this spell upgrades a normal human into a creature that can hold a Superman level opponent at bay, apparently. Which in almost anyone else's book would probably count as an amp.

Yeah, but birds, doe.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Wonder Woman #174 and #175, Volume 2.

A male version of the Cheetah named Sebastian Ballesteros overpowers Superman at Circe's command. With Superman commenting that the Ballesteros Cheetah "has a punch like Captain Marvel or Diana".

Yet Ballesteros Cheetah worries that Wonder Woman, with her strength and speed, will tear apart their ship. Circe assures him that will not happen.
Mainly, the next scene makes fairly clear, because Diana's friend Vanessa has been tortured with technological devices and been made into the Silver Swan and the only cure is to be found in that ship. Diana therefore can't destroy it for fear of trapping her friend in that wretched state.

Interestingly, Circe has managed to capture Lex Luthor. And turned him into a monster with a spider's body. The bestiamorph spell may or may not have derived from Martians like J'onn Jonnz originally, as Circe herself speculates.

Lex manages to capture Ballesteros Cheetah with his webbing, and the webbing holds Ballesteros Cheetah despite the fact that BC had not long before proved himself stronger than Superman, or at least trashed Superman after knocking him around and holding him without much effort.

So this spell upgrades a normal human into a creature that can hold a Superman level opponent at bay, apparently. Which in almost anyone else's book would probably count as an amp.

People think amped, but there wasn't anything I can recall about him actually being amped, and considering how poorly she's compared directly and indirectly against him before and after, I highly doubt it was anything than an enraged Superman aside from the bone protrusions in the knuckles, which only meant anything a whole one time.

I recall on the DC boards you claimed this was Superman combined with Doomsday's strength. Which, the fact that she didn't die makes this a really big assumption.