Punisher Kills the DC Universe

Originally posted by -Pr-
like Batman and Darkseid in The Supergirl Return run?

Originally posted by -Pr-
like Batman and Darkseid in The Supergirl Return run?

I don't see the parallel.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Well, now you're just being difficult, Pr.

😛

i know, i know, i'm terrible...

Originally posted by Omega Vision
In that situation is was more like Batman bluffing Darkseid and having a great poker face. Darkseid would have called the bluff were it not for the fact that he didn't know much about Batman except for the fact that Batman was significantly more ruthless than WW or Superman.

i asked if it was like it, not the same! 😛

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
As in Batman having Superman, Barda and Wonderwoman running interference and Darkseid actually being on Apokolips and letting that happen... and Punisher having only Microchip and Doom not being in Castle Doom to prevent his obtaining the painting?

I don't see the parallel.

i meant the "staring down someone more powerful than you and gambling that they'd let you go" sort of thing.

Originally posted by -Pr-
you once mentioned that he outsmarted Doom, right? Would that not qualify?

Nope. Doom underestimated him the first time and the plan was made specifically for The Punisher. Doom specifically stated he was impressed, however theres nothing PIS about him tactically hiding from Doom.

Originally posted by -Pr-

and you still havent answered my question.

Im talking about our last discussion when you said Punisher has no business fighting such and such, I gave proof he could that you pulled the PIS card.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
On this... Punisher infiltrated and escaped Doom's castle when Kristoff was ruling. So it's Kristoff's fault that Punisher got his hands on the painting of Doom's parents that made Doom agree not to kill him in Acts of Vengeance. Not really outsmarting, so much as bartering.

Kristoff has been shown to be just as lethal as Doom. Punisher didn't succeed in breaking into the castle without being detected. I didn't post scans of Punisher escaping from the castle I felt it was far too easy...or maybe Punisher was tactically that smart.

Originally posted by Deadline
Nope. Doom underestimated him the first time and the plan was made specifically for The Punisher. Doom specifically stated he was impressed, however theres nothing PIS about him tactically hiding from Doom.

so he hid from him? that's it?

Im talking about our last discussion when you said Punisher has no business fighting such and such, I gave proof he could that you pulled the PIS card.

which character are we talking about?

Originally posted by -Pr-
i meant the "staring down someone more powerful than you and gambling that they'd let you go" sort of thing.

Originally posted by Deadline
Nope. Doom underestimated him the first time and the plan was made specifically for The Punisher. Doom specifically stated he was impressed, however theres nothing PIS about him tactically hiding from Doom.

Kristoff has been shown to be just as lethal as Doom. Punisher didn't succeed in breaking into the castle without being detected. I didn't post scans of Punisher escaping from the castle I felt it was far too easy...or maybe Punisher was tactically that smart.

Kristoff's a schnook. His career as Doom is endless phail. Don't project that stink onto Doom, please.

Originally posted by -Pr-
so he hid from him? that's it?

What you mean thats it? As I've said before Doom was using tactics to find him.

Prior to that Doom had started blowing up Punisher's warehouses and was using a hoard of flying killer robots. The gloves were off, and in that instance Doom had actually analysed how many warehouses Punisher had and there locations. Doom did not find Punisher, Punisher lured him out. Thats significant and shouldn't be ignored.

Lets also not forget Doom was still impressed by the fact he escaped his trap and hes more intelligent than a lot of other DC villains.

Originally posted by -Pr-

which character are we talking about?

Daken, Deadpool and Kraven II.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
K. Doom's been impressed by Franklin Richards' maturity.

C'mon man, don't you pull a IDLI, IDH. Are we going to attribute this to Doom talking shit or are we going to attribute to Punisher being smart? You didn’t have a problem with Punisher taking out the Hulk did you? Considering that people like The Leader have had problems putting him down its very impressive. Captain America also been impressed by Punisher’s intelligence as well, was that bad writing to? Y’know who Caps arch-nemsis is the Red Skull, y’know that Doom actually respects the Red Skull?

Im actually not surprised about that I mean Franklin is the son of one of earth greatest geniuses and is a mutant of vast power.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Sorry, but sending a Doombot that can be killed by a machine gun, a tank and two minions on jetpacks isn't what I call specifically prepping for Punisher. It was underestimation, nothing more, nothing less.

No mate i’ve read the issue and he had designed the trap for The Punisher because he had actually took them time and effort to study him. Obvoulsy if he had made a trap for the FF Punisher would have been dead but he created a trap that he felt would have killed The Punisher, and in that respects he wasn’t sloppy.

Punisher’s machine gun is not standard and has also taken down foes in hi-tech exoskeletons. Its not as if Doombots are always uber, I don’t think anybody would bat an eyelid if Spiderman destroyed one. The reason why those guys were wearing jetpacks as because Doom anticipated that Punisher would use one after his van was blown up, which is exactly what I said he had been studying him. Obvously those guys were not packing Dooms most advanced tech but they were better armed and trained than some of his other foot soldiers. There also may have been more of themn around but we didn't see them because Punisher created cover just in case, but this is nor clear cut.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Kristoff's a schnook. His career as Doom is endless phail. Don't project that stink onto Doom, please.

I didn’t mean that he was as good as Doom. I mean’t that hes had plans on the level of what Doom has done.

To address this issue though I would bet you are probably right but Doom has also been around for a lot longer than him so he would have better showings.

Originally posted by Deadline
What you mean thats it? As I've said before Doom was using tactics to find him.

Prior to that Doom had started blowing up Punisher's warehouses and was using a hoard of flying killer robots. The gloves were off, and in that instance Doom had actually analysed how many warehouses Punisher had and there locations. Doom did not find Punisher, Punisher lured him out. Thats significant and shouldn't be ignored.

Lets also not forget Doom was still impressed by the fact he escaped his trap and hes more intelligent than a lot of other DC villains.

in all honesty, those are some pretty shitty tactics. blowing shit up is the last resort, and i'm amazed that doom would lower himself to such an uncouth activity.

Daken, Deadpool and Kraven II.

so you think he can hold his own with all of those in close quarters combat?

barring all that, though, i still don't know how he's supposed to kill half the people on that list. any ideas?

Originally posted by Deadline
What you mean thats it? As I've said before Doom was using tactics to find him.

Prior to that Doom had started blowing up Punisher's warehouses and was using a hoard of flying killer robots. The gloves were off, and in that instance Doom had actually analysed how many warehouses Punisher had and there locations. Doom did not find Punisher, Punisher lured him out. Thats significant and shouldn't be ignored.

Lets also not forget Doom was still impressed by the fact he escaped his trap and hes more intelligent than a lot of other DC villains.

I don't even remember a hoard of flying robots. He sent a Doombot (which was easily dispatched by a machine gun), a single tank, and two jetpack dudes with guns. Punisher escaped via his own jet-pack. And luring out Doom (right after running away from America) isn't what I call an amazing feat. You boil it down and Punisher essentially ran away from Doom and betted on Doom sparing his life, choosing to keep his word and honor, over his pride in losing a bet with Kingpin. Recasting that as if it were Punisher "outsmarting" Doom tactically is absurd.

Originally posted by Deadline
C'mon man, don't you pull a IDLI, IDH. Are we going to attribute this to Doom talking shit or are we going to attribute to Punisher being smart? You didn’t have a problem with Punisher taking out the Hulk did you? Considering that people like The Leader have had problems putting him down its very impressive. Captain America also been impressed by Punisher’s intelligence as well, was that bad writing to? Y’know who Caps arch-nemsis is the Red Skull, y’know that Doom actually respects the Red Skull?

Im actually not surprised about that I mean Franklin is the son of one of earth greatest geniuses and is a mutant of vast power.

Doom being "impressed" in this way requires only that somebody exceed his expectations. Franklin's maturity exceeded his expectations. Punisher's resourcefulness exceeded his expectations. That doesn't, in any way suggest, that either of them thwarted Doom somehow.

Originally posted by Deadline
No mate i’ve read the issue and he had designed the trap for The Punisher because he had actually took them time and effort to study him. Obvoulsy if he had made a trap for the FF Punisher would have been dead but he created a trap that he felt would have killed The Punisher, and in that respects he wasn’t sloppy.

Punisher’s machine gun is not standard and has also taken down foes in hi-tech exoskeletons. Its not as if Doombots are always uber, I don’t think anybody would bat an eyelid if Spiderman destroyed one. The reason why those guys were wearing jetpacks as because Doom anticipated that Punisher would use one after his van was blown up, which is exactly what I said he had been studying him. Obvously those guys were not packing Dooms most advanced tech but they were better armed and trained than some of his other foot soldiers. There also may have been more of themn around but we didn't see them because Punisher created cover just in case, but this is nor clear cut.

Doombots have been broken apart by human punches. Reverse-projecting the durability required for Spiderman to barely defeat one onto this Doombot is tenuous at best. Then Doom sent a tank and two minions on jet-packs. That's called underestimation. Nothing more, nothing less.

Originally posted by Deadline
I didn’t mean that he was as good as Doom. I mean’t that hes had plans on the level of what Doom has done.

To address this issue though I would bet you are probably right but Doom has also been around for a lot longer than him so he would have better showings.

Kristoff has done nothing but fail. Don't project that stink onto Doom. Similar attempts have been made by Alpha Flight and Wolverine fans. Didn't work then, doesn't work now.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
He needed a shit ton of PIS to kill the MU. Without it he isn't killing anyone on this list.

Yes, it bugged me that juggernaut died from a nuke. Granted it was a DOOM Nuke, but still.... It's the juggernaut.

Originally posted by -Pr-
barring all that, though, i still don't know how he's supposed to kill half the people on that list.

Originally posted by -Pr-
in all honesty, those are some pretty shitty tactics.

Serioulsy P did you get amnesia or something? You've been reading comics for years and you can't remember times when top tier strategists have used explosives and superheroes have been nearly killed by them? Top tier strategists have used it and top tier strategists have nearly been killed by this technique.

Its a simple technique but effective. If you drop a bomb on somebody by suprise unless your lucky you're pretty much ****ed.

Originally posted by -Pr-

blowing shit up is the last resort,

No it isn't. Sometime it is, sometimes it isn't. Thats one example when it wasn't.

Originally posted by -Pr-

and i'm amazed that doom would lower himself to such an uncouth activity.

Are you shitting me? You've never read a comic were Doom or villains of a similar mindset have tried to use robots to basically shoot pummel a hero to death? So wait sneakingly trying to blow somebody up > sending a killer robot in uncouthness. Of course Doom has used more compliacted tactics but its not like he hasn't used tactics like that before....c'mon now.

Since Punisher and Microchip have succesfully held off three of The Reavers if Doom had sent his Doombots to to the warehouse it could damn well be argued all they would have done is run. If you drop a bomb on somebody and they don't know its coming you're ****ed.

Originally posted by -Pr-

so you think he can hold his own with all of those in close quarters combat?

I don't think, he has done so. In the case of Kraven II hes done it twice.

Originally posted by -Pr-

barring all that, though, i still don't know how he's supposed to kill half the people on that list. any ideas?

Im not even going there yet.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And blowing up his warehouses strains the creativity and resources of Doom how exactly?

It doesn't have to. I was under the impression that Doom has sent robots to kill people before and they don't always involve some complicated plan so why the fuss now?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

I don't even remember a hoard of flying robots. He sent a Doombot (which was easily dispatched by a machine gun), a single tank, and two jetpack dudes with guns. Punisher escaped via his own jet-pack. And luring out Doom (right after running away from America) isn't what I call an amazing feat. You boil it down and Punisher essentially ran away from Doom and betted on Doom sparing his life, choosing to keep his word and honor, over his pride in losing a bet with Kingpin. Recasting that as if it were Punisher "outsmarting" Doom tactically is absurd.

There were no flying robots in that trap im talking about afterwards. Oh I also went to check that theres no conclusive proof that there was a hoard of them. We only see a couple of flying robots on panel ,and he mentions something about his minions. That may or may not indicate that he sent a group of robots to seek and destroy Punisher. Not conclusive but not a stretch.

As for the rest you seem to be putting words into my mouth and projecting. These feats do not prove that Punisher can outsmart Doom or even that he is the rival of Doom in smarts. The only reason why I bring this up is that it could be argued when talking about supervillains that have a significantly less impressive career than Doom that Punisher could beat them. When talking about The Joker or Ras Al Ghul its relatively impressive when talking about Doom it doesn't prove shit at all.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

There's no IDLI, IDH when there's nothing of note that occurred. Doom underestimated Punisher and tried to take him out as if he were a cheap hood. That doesn't detract from either character or threaten to undermine any of their feats that have nothing to do with Acts of Vengeance.

Doom being "impressed" in this way requires only that somebody exceed his expectations. Franklin's maturity exceeded his expectations. Punisher's resourcefulness exceeded his expectations. That doesn't, in any way suggest, that either of them thwarted Doom somehow.

LOL but it did. Doom thought that Punisher was just a vigilante with a gun. When Punisher survived the deathtrap he was impressed because he realised that Punisher was smarter than he thought. That doesn't mean that he thought that Punisher was Reed Richards or that somehow he couldn't kill him...Jesus.

Im not saying he thwarted Doom because the only reason why he survived the trap is because Doom underestimated him. Its relatively impressive but not concerning Doom.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Study? Doom didn't even know Punisher would have a jetpack lying around.

Yes my bad you are correct concerning the jet-pack. However Doom had to give himself a false identity and pose as a gunrunner to lure Punisher into the trap. Everybody knows that Punisher uses guns but in order to fool Punisher that you're are a real gunrunner you need to do research. Doom also knew how many warehouses that Punisher had and there locations. If thats not studying I don't know what is.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Doombots have been broken apart by human punches. Reverse-projecting the durability required for Spiderman to barely defeat one onto this Doombot is tenuous at best. Then Doom sent a tank and two minions on jet-packs. That's called underestimation. Nothing more, nothing less. Kristoff hasn't done sh1t. The only thing he exceeds Doom in is failing at life.

Stop strawmanning. I already told you he underestimated him.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Kristoff has done nothing but fail. Don't project that stink onto Doom. Similar attempts have been made by Alpha Flight and Wolverine fans. Didn't work then, doesn't work now.

Y'know what, you seem to be getting riled up about shit I never said or even shit that is correct. Did I say that Kristoff was as good as Doom, nope. What I said was that hes dones stuff comparable to the real Doom. I suspect that im actually correct but you're getting all puffed up about nothing. Didn't he teleport the Baxter the bulding into outerspace and blow it up? Thats not a Doom level tactic?

P.S. Just to note the info on the warehouses maybe something he found out later.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i just want examples. Barring PIS, how would Punisher kill Flash, or Superman, or Green Lantern, or Wonder Woman even. Atom, J'onn, etc. How is he going to succeed where so many superior beings have failed?

He won't

Originally posted by -Pr-
\

barring all that, though, i still don't know how he's supposed to kill half the people on that list. any ideas?

Supes! Turn up to the Daily Bugle with a dagger made out of Vampire Teeth, Show Clark a streaming video of Lois and Ma Kent Tied up at different locations at gun point and tell Clark that if he doesn't write down the name of Superman on a particular notepad they die.

As he starts to write the name of a fake name shove that knife through his spine. 🥷

Why would Superman be at the daily Bugle?

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Why would Superman be at the daily Bugle?

Punisher found out Supe's secret identity! Any idiot could using cameras that read facial imprints and put them through databanks Clark would've been figured by now!
They use them in high class restaurants and at football stadiums. So yeah....
Turn up to the Daily Bugle with a dagger made out of Vampire Teeth, Show Clark a streaming video of Lois and Ma Kent Tied up at different locations at gun point and tell Clark that if he doesn't write down the name of Superman on a particular notepad they die.

As he starts to write the name of a fake name shove that knife through his spine. 🥷

Originally posted by the ninjak
Punisher found out Supe's secret identity! Any idiot could using cameras that read facial imprints and put them through databanks Clark would've been figured by now!

Again...why is Superman at the Daily Bugle?