Originally posted by Kento
*shrugs* Evil Buu was also stronger than Fat Buu. And since Evil Buu was able to turn Fat Buu's magic on his then Fat Buu probably could do the same to Dabura. IMO anyway.
Originally posted by Ridley_PrimeNot saying it wouldn't work, just that there's a 90% chance that Buu could reverse it before it turned him completely. I'm saying he's a stronger magician also not just in power level. It's not like I'm arguing Gokou or Babidi or anything can stop the effects. But Buu has shown the ability to transform objects into something or turn them back so turning himself from stone isn't something that farfetched.
So you think someone's magic won't work against someone else if they're stronger? Look at Babidi. He's not physically strong at all, yet he easily affects more powerful beings with his magic. It's completely logical to assume Dabura's spit would've worked on Buu had it hit him.
Originally posted by Kento
Not saying it wouldn't work, just that there's a 90% chance that Buu could reverse it before it turned him completely. I'm saying he's a stronger magician also not just in power level. It's not like I'm arguing Gokou or Babidi or anything can stop the effects. But Buu has shown the ability to transform objects into something or turn them back so turning himself from stone isn't something that farfetched.
How is he supposed to do that when he wasn't shown turning himself from chocolate back into his pink fluffy self?
On top of that, how is he supposed to have any sort of synaptic function....when his body is made of stone.
It's rather simple: a no plot hole fight would results in Dabby spitting on Buu, turning Buu to stone, and Dabura doing a low level attack with just enough power to vap the stone. No more Buu, at all.
I think that's what everyone (Rid) is trying to convey.
Yeah, and the part with Gohan taking off his glove before the effect of the spit spread to the rest of his body was kinda PIS too since he already knew about it after seeing what happened to Krillen and Piccolo earlier. 😬
Not to mention, Fat Buu doesn't think that fast, with his toddler-like personality and all. Sure, he could possibly be able to reverse the effect, but by the time toddler Buu realizes what's happening to him after being spit on, it would likely already be too late.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Yeah, and the part with Gohan taking off his glove before the effect of the spit spread to the rest of his body was kinda PIS too since he already knew about it after seeing what happened to Krillen and Piccolo earlier. 😬Not to mention, Fat Buu doesn't think that fast, with his toddler-like personality and all. Sure, he could possibly be able to reverse the effect, but by the time toddler Buu realizes what's happening to him after being spit on, it would likely already be too late.
Buu also has a much larger skin surface area whereas Gohan was almost completely covered, from head to toe, with clothes. lulz
I would use Buu's Magic to cure male pattern baldness, if I were Mr. Satan...cause Mr. Satan is looking like a rapist towards the end, there.
Also, I would get Buu to use his Magic to give me equal powers in Magic...then use those powers to....DOMINATE TEH UNIVERZESESSES!!!@!WSWDKJH!KJ~HJK~~! SKEET SKEET!
My point's not really if he would, just that he has the ability to stop/reverse it. Though it is possible Fat Buu wouldn't think of trying it but it's not like becoming stone is instantaneous so a smarter Buu would be able to. Buu has matter manipulation on a grand scale, and there is no reason to believe he can't use it on himself. Though Buu would have been screwed had Dabura spit at him instead of throwing a spear.
* consistent power levels... long boring stare downs between opponents...
* correct me if i'm wrong but i have read somewhere that a royal blood saiyan (e.g. Vegeta) is more powerful than an ordinary saiyan (e.g. Gokou) and a saiyan-human hybrid is more powerful than a pure saiyan... if so, Vegeta should be more powerful than Gokou... and Trunks, Gohan & Goten should be more powerful than Gokou and Vegeta... and Trunks should be the most powerful of them since he is a royal blood saiyan-human hybrid... ah... my head hurts, whatever...
* i love Gokou by the way... if he's the most powerful in the series, it's a-okay for me... 🙂
Originally posted by dadudemon
Buu also has a much larger skin surface area whereas Gohan was almost completely covered, from head to toe, with clothes. lulz
And I agree with you about Mr. Satan. lol
Originally posted by Kento
My point's not really if he would, just that he has the ability to stop/reverse it. Though it is possible Fat Buu wouldn't think of trying it but it's not like becoming stone is instantaneous so a smarter Buu would be able to. Buu has matter manipulation on a grand scale, and there is no reason to believe he can't use it on himself. Though Buu would have been screwed had Dabura spit at him instead of throwing a spear.
Though Super Buu with Piccolo absorbed is about the only smart Buu there is, IMO.
As for Fat Buu being able to use his matter manipulation on himself, well yeah. That was shown when Evil Buu turned his own magic against him, but I don't think Fat Buu could change himself if he's already turned to stone completely or is chocolate, else he would've changed himself back before Evil Buu picked up the chocolate and ate it.
Or maybe he can but it just takes time, like how it takes time for Piccolo to regenerate. I dunno. In which case, Fat Buu didn't have enough time to reverse the effect on himself before Evil Buu ate/absorbed him.
Originally posted by peejayd
* correct me if i'm wrong but i have read somewhere that a royal blood saiyan (e.g. Vegeta) is more powerful than an ordinary saiyan (e.g. Gokou)
Originally posted by peejayd
and a saiyan-human hybrid is more powerful than a pure saiyan...
Originally posted by Ridley_Primelol seems so.
Yep. 😛 I guess we're all pretty much on the same page now.Though Super Buu with Piccolo absorbed is about the only smart Buu there is, IMO.
I figured it would be with Piccolo and Gohan absorbed. Piccolo is just wise because of Kami and a good fighter and Gohan he gets the book smarts.
Originally posted by Ridley_PrimeWell becoming stone isn't instant while being turned to chocolate is more so. And besides filler episodes the only person shown to be able to do anything was Vegetto when turned to candy. Which really made no sense at all that he was able to.
As for Fat Buu being able to use his matter manipulation on himself, well yeah. That was shown when Evil Buu turned his own magic against him, but I don't think Fat Buu could change himself if he's already turned to stone completely or is chocolate, else he would've changed himself back before Evil Buu picked up the chocolate and ate it.
Or maybe he can but it just takes time, like how it takes time for Piccolo to regenerate. I dunno. In which case, Fat Buu didn't have enough time to reverse the effect on himself before Evil Buu ate/absorbed him.
Originally posted by Ridley_PrimeOr come back half-dead from every fight like Bardock. lol
That only goes as far as how powerful they are by birth. A low-class Saiyan can still surpass an elite if they become stronger and train hard enough, like Goku did.
Originally posted by Ridley_PrimeWasn't it just because of the tail they could become ssj4? And wasn't it said that half-breeds were more powerful in the series? Or was it just one of those things that people just came up with to make sense of Gohan, Goten, and Trunks being so powerful.
I dunno where you heard that, but that's extremely debatable. 'sides, only pure-blooded Saiyans are able to go Super Saiyan 4, as shown by Goku and Vegeta being the only ones to reach it.
Originally posted by Kento
lol seems so.I figured it would be with Piccolo and Gohan absorbed. Piccolo is just wise because of Kami and a good fighter and Gohan he gets the book smarts.
Originally posted by Kento
Well becoming stone isn't instant while being turned to chocolate is more so. And besides filler episodes the only person shown to be able to do anything was Vegetto when turned to candy. Which really made no sense at all that he was able to.
Originally posted by Kento
Or come back half-dead from every fight like Bardock. lol
Originally posted by Kento
Wasn't it just because of the tail they could become ssj4? And wasn't it said that half-breeds were more powerful in the series? Or was it just one of those things that people just came up with to make sense of Gohan, Goten, and Trunks being so powerful.
As far as the tails go, I'm still perplexed at the fact Goten and Trunks never had tails, yet Gohan did.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime😆 Well I believe at the end of Bojack movie we do see Goten with a tail as a baby. But it was probably just one of those things Akira just forgot, that or Gohan, and Bulma knew tails = bad news and removed them. lol
As far as the tails go, I'm still perplexed at the fact Goten and Trunks never had tails, yet Gohan did.
I would have missed out the Garlick Jnr Saga, then continued with the Android and Cell Saga. After that I probably would have moved them off-planet to do something else, perhaps finding a lost colony of Saiyans somewhere, Goku learning more about his father perhaps? Anyway just something more different than the 'oh no, theres another powerful being that absorbs people' that they did with the Buu Saga.
Some other gripes, the powering up time lessened as they got more powerful but it still dragged sometimes, the humans like Yamcha, Tien and Krillin always being less powerful than anything else was a bit of an annoyance. SSJ3 should have been the end limit, GT just messed up with the concept of SSJ4.
Other than that I still enjoy watching it now and again.
Honestly, Dragon Ball was cool. Now "Z"...LONG list, get ready.
1.Made Vegeta go Super Saiyajin 3.
2.Some how made Vegeta havin' a kid by Bulma, more believable. A back story worth a damn was really needed. It woulda been less of a WTF moment.
3. For real, a heart virus killin' Goku? They coulda did better than that. I mean, damn just Goku? I don't know how to kill Goku off in a way that allows the Android saga to start, but somethin' else at least.
4. Not allow Gohan to grow up to be such a Ga'damn chump. It's cool if he chooses to live like a human, that is half of who he is, but did you really have to make him that damn weak? Mystic Gohan was the shit though, they made up for that big time. Good job.
5. It was dumb to make the Prince of Saiyajin the weakest out of the whole bunch. He at least shoulda been right behind Goku.
6. Vegeto shoulda killed Buu.
7. We get that Goku's IQ aint all that high and that he's VERY naive, but he made some dumb ass decisions. I wouldn't have let him make so many of them. Like choosin' Hercule over your own damn children and lettin'em die on an explodin' Earth.
8. Allow Sayajins to breath in space. All that damn power but you still can't breathe in outer space AND you call yourself a phuckin' alien.
9. I know the cast is HUGE, but damn, everyone didn't have to turn into Average Joes and Goobers. I woulda kept the cast moderately strong and allowed them to have more important roles in the plot.
10. Never made DBGT
Even wit all that said, I still love DBand DBZ, but not you GT. You suck.
Originally posted by No End N Site
5. It was dumb to make the Prince of Saiyajin the weakest out of the whole bunch. He at least shoulda been right behind Goku.
Originally posted by No End N Site
8. Allow Sayajins to breath in space. All that damn power but you still can't breathe in outer space AND you call yourself a phuckin' alien.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
He was right behind him...I disagree, because then it would've been too easy. Same as if the Saiyans were able to regenerate like Namekians. The other races gotta have at least some things unique only to them, like the Saiyans' ability to grow stronger after every battle.
Everyone could go at least SS3 except him 'and' he had to cheat to go SS2. That's not what I would call right behind Goku who could reach the same level of Gotenks and may have been weaker than Gohan.
Breathin' in space is not that big of a deal to me, not like regeneration is. And Nemekian's have ass loads of other abilities. Givin' the Sayajins the classic space alien ability to breathe in space woulda made sense. And that ability to grow stronger after every battle was scraped. I didn't hear much about that after the Freeza saga. If DBZ had really kept that, think about how much stronger the other Saiyajin characters woulda been, includin' Cell.
Originally posted by No End N Site
[B]Everyone could go at least SS3 except him[/b]
Originally posted by No End N Site
'and' he had to cheat to go SS2. That's not what I would call right behind Goku who could reach the same level of Gotenks and may have been weaker than Gohan.
Originally posted by No End N Site
Breathin' in space is not that big of a deal to me, not like regeneration is. And Nemekian's have ass loads of other abilities. Givin' the Sayajins the classic space alien ability to breathe in space woulda made sense.
Originally posted by No End N Site
And that ability to grow stronger after every battle was scraped. I didn't hear much about that after the Freeza saga.
Originally posted by No End N Site
If DBZ had really kept that, think about how much stronger the other Saiyajin characters woulda been, includin' Cell.
Really? I wasn't aware Gohan could do that, or Goten and Trunks by themselves. 😛[/B][/QUOTE]
Gohan can go Mystic, even better. Doin' it fused is better than not doin' it at all.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Vegeta was able to go SS2 even after he was no longer under Babidi's influcence though. The only thing I call cheating as far as all that goes is Vegeta having to use those blutz waves to go SS4 in GT, but like you said, DBGT sucks anyway.
I don't think Vegeta coulda went SS2 wit out goin Majin 1st.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
I suppose so.. After all, everyone (including Krillen) was able to breathe in space in that one movie The World's Strongest. Bardock had to have been breathing in outer space too when he confronted Frieza before his death.
Hmmmm...maybe they can. Vegeta went SS out in space too, didn't he?
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Cell actually did grow stronger because of the Saiyan cells within him, after he came back from self-destructing on King Kai's planet, which gave birth to that "Super Perfect Cell" form of his that rivaled SS2 Gohan (also attained Goku's Instant Transmission in the process).
Okay, so it was used again as a plot device to make the bad guy stronger so that the final battle can seem epic (which it was, IMO). I just wish it was incorporated more in the story cuz it's a cool ability that the creators shoulda built on. What about when, Trunks lost to Cell, or Vegeta, or Goku? How about when Goten lost to Trunks or when Gotenks 1st lost to Buu? Where was it then?
I'm going to focus on the sagas up to Frieza, because the other ones or just beyond help.
First off I would have made Radditz stick around. I mean i'm really amazed that Goku's brother got dispatched so quick and with so little role in the plot. And I would have made the saiyans have way more camaraderie. I mean, their biased against by Frieza and treated like slaves, i'd hope they'd at least have some commitment to staying unified and keeping the species alive. That's why I'd make it so Nappa and Vegeta actually got really pissed that Radditz died.
Likewise, i'd make it so the power of the three were way closer together. I just can't believe that Radditz was so far below Nappa, and Nappa equally far below Vegeta. What was the point of even having Radditz around, then? The Saibamen were just stupid and I'd get rid of them. Maybe give them some other low-class survivors as soldiers?
I would have not had all the aliens be so stupid about power levels. I mean it took Captain Ginyu to realize "hey, these guys can change their power levels at will"! It's his job to know stuff like that... why didn't the rest of the Ginyu force know as well? I mean, they're supposed to be combat experts not complete morons, even if they are comic relief.
I would have made the Ginyu force way more of a threat even once Goku appeared. As you may have noticed, I don't like it when one character is really far above the others. Here, Burter and Jeice would have a been a real challenge to Goku and Ginyu would have been able to at least match him without trickery.
Ginyu shouldn't have been a dumbass and realized he can't get full potential out of a body he just possessed. I mean, he has used that technique before, right? Why the hell didn't he know he'd have trouble with it?
The confrontation with Frieza, I thought it went perfectly well though I might have either given his third form more screen time (it was barely around compared to the others) or just skip it completely and have him use his final form to beat Piccolo.
The fight with Goku I felt went perfectly fine and was a good ending. I might have ended it there though, with Goku genuinely dead.
Originally posted by King Kandyeverything you said, i completely agree with. thats what i meant by making it more story based instead of stupid fights. i especially agree with him dying after frieza, everything after that was just dumb and didn't really make sense for the story. i mean red ribbon army was something goku fought when he was a kid, why would they have one thing as powerful as those, let alone...what 6. and then there is the fact that after frieza, all the bad guys had to be killed with a single blast or they would come back, the lack of originality there really bothered me. also, this is probably the biggest thing that bothers me, they were able to destroy planets in the sayan saga, and yet, every single fight was on earth, and yet it was not vaporized from their power ups, let alone the energy blasts they use. i mean how much more powerful would a simple ki blast be at the end of the series? probably just as powerful or more powerful as vagetas...what was it finish buster? idk the one that would have destroyed the earth if goku didn't stop him. they should have been fighting in space and destroying planets while fighting, it would have been way more epic, and would make a lot more sense
I'm going to focus on the sagas up to Frieza, because the other ones or just beyond help.First off I would have made Radditz stick around. I mean i'm really amazed that Goku's brother got dispatched so quick and with so little role in the plot. And I would have made the saiyans have way more camaraderie. I mean, their biased against by Frieza and treated like slaves, i'd hope they'd at least have some commitment to staying unified and keeping the species alive. That's why I'd make it so Nappa and Vegeta actually got really pissed that Radditz died.
Likewise, i'd make it so the power of the three were way closer together. I just can't believe that Radditz was so far below Nappa, and Nappa equally far below Vegeta. What was the point of even having Radditz around, then? The Saibamen were just stupid and I'd get rid of them. Maybe give them some other low-class survivors as soldiers?
I would have not had all the aliens be so stupid about power levels. I mean it took Captain Ginyu to realize "hey, these guys can change their power levels at will"! It's his job to know stuff like that... why didn't the rest of the Ginyu force know as well? I mean, they're supposed to be combat experts not complete morons, even if they are comic relief.
I would have made the Ginyu force way more of a threat even once Goku appeared. As you may have noticed, I don't like it when one character is really far above the others. Here, Burter and Jeice would have a been a real challenge to Goku and Ginyu would have been able to at least match him without trickery.
Ginyu shouldn't have been a dumbass and realized he can't get full potential out of a body he just possessed. I mean, he has used that technique before, right? Why the hell didn't he know he'd have trouble with it?
The confrontation with Frieza, I thought it went perfectly well though I might have either given his third form more screen time (it was barely around compared to the others) or just skip it completely and have him use his final form to beat Piccolo.
The fight with Goku I felt went perfectly fine and was a good ending. I might have ended it there though, with Goku genuinely dead.