Originally posted by xmarksthespot馃憜
Emma Frost.(Also I've only seen Apocalypse phase once, I think it was just his fingertips shown, never seen this repeated - which makes it a rather SvFL feat. Mystique has phased her entire upper body through a wall once, but it really shouldn't be considered a regular power of hers unless she does it again at least a few times.)
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Emma Frost.(Also I've only seen Apocalypse phase once, I think it was just his fingertips shown, never seen this repeated - which makes it a rather SvFL feat. Mystique has phased her entire upper body through a wall once, but it really shouldn't be considered a regular power of hers unless she does it again at least a few times.)
This is just pure bias :/
Apocalypse has very few appearances compared to Mystique or Emma Frost. If he displays telepathy in 3/20 cases, it's a lot more feasible than Emma displaying telekinesis in 5/5000 cases. Even you must understand this. Must Apocalypse display telepathy in every damn appearance before you're willing to accept it?
You seem to write off a power as PIS if it's only used once...
Originally posted by llagrokOne-off powers generally aren't considered to be regular powers.
This is just pure bias :/Apocalypse has very few appearances compared to Mystique or Emma Frost. If he displays telepathy in 3/20 cases, it's a lot more feasible than Emma displaying telekinesis in 5/5000 cases. Even you must understand this. Must Apocalypse display telepathy in every damn appearance before you're willing to accept it?
You seem to write off a power as PIS if it's only used once...
One phasing feat and suddenly he's Shadowcat?
He still has over a hundred appearances and in those he's had a mind reading feat (and even with that apparently he didn't do a very good job since Ozymandias has kept secrets) and a possible questionable maybe-psiblast. Neither of which justifies saying he's a telepath of the highest order. Neither of which really justifies saying he has telepathy at all.
He's unable to access the Astral Plane of his own accord, despite this being rudimentary to any skilled telepath.
Not a single bio states he has telepathy, one specifically states he doesn't.
There are five telepaths capable of pulling off the Destiny Diaries; Apocalypse if he's even considered a telepath isn't one of them.
Bias would be saying his one or two telepathic displays makes him superior or equal to other characters who have hundreds to thousands of times more feats to justify that 1) they are a telepath at all and 2) that they are a first order telepath. Bias would be ignoring that this has been brought up multiple times and still trying to spread misinformation like someone at the start of this thread.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
One-off powers generally aren't considered to be regular powers.One phasing feat and suddenly he's Shadowcat?
Uh, having complete control over your atomic structure doesn't allow you alter your density?
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
He's unable to access the Astral Plane of his own accord, despite this being rudimentary to any skilled telepath.
Irrelevant, I'd say, since Apocalypse displayed his claimed mental feats at the exact same time (in 1996).
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Not a single bio states he has telepathy
Not a single bio states that Apocalypse has energy projection...
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
one specifically states he doesn't.
And that one is horribly dated.
Originally posted by Bad Ash231It may. It's still a one-off occurrence being presented as if it's a consistently used power.
Uh, having complete control over your atomic structure doesn't allow you alter your density?
This of course alongside the constant using of recent showings that Apocalypse fan's like, while ignoring more recent lower showings. Then amalgamating them into some hypothetical being "Classic Apocalypse."
Originally posted by Bad Ash231The Twelve was in 2000 iirc so you're not referring to that I presume, which leaves the incomplete mind-reading feat. There isn't really any discrepancy between being able to accomplish a single relatively basic telepathic feat and not being able to enter the Astral Plane.
Irrelevant, I'd say, since Apocalypse displayed his claimed mental feats at the exact same time (in 1996).
There's also the instance where he reacts to Jean's telepathy as a novelty. So there's really as many instances if not more of him appearing to not have telepathy at all as there are of him displaying some telepathic ability.
Originally posted by Bad Ash231The point that telepathy is not mentioned in bios in itself doesn't provide any basis for or against him having telepathy, alongside the other points though it does. So that's a somewhat false analogy.
Not a single bio states that Apocalypse has energy projection...
And that one is horribly dated.
He hasn't consistently displayed telepathy, and the few times he has it's been ambiguous and/or provides no real gauge as to the level of skill nor power.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
One-off powers generally aren't considered to be regular powers.One phasing feat and suddenly he's Shadowcat?
He still has over a hundred appearances and in those he's had a mind reading feat (and even with that apparently he didn't do a very good job since Ozymandias has kept secrets) and a possible questionable maybe-psiblast. Neither of which justifies saying he's a telepath of the highest order. Neither of which really justifies saying he has telepathy at all.
He's unable to access the Astral Plane of his own accord, despite this being rudimentary to any skilled telepath.
Not a single bio states he has telepathy, one specifically states he doesn't.
There are five telepaths capable of pulling off the Destiny Diaries; Apocalypse if he's even considered a telepath isn't one of them.Bias would be saying his one or two telepathic displays makes him superior or equal to other characters who have hundreds to thousands of times more feats to justify that 1) they are a telepath at all and 2) that they are a first order telepath. Bias would be ignoring that this has been brought up multiple times and still trying to spread misinformation like someone at the start of this thread.
This is outright bias. 馃槖
We use all kinds of one time feats for powers and abilities, and you have the gall to denounce a one use from Apoc as SMvsFL? 馃憞
He gave Exodus his powers and one-shotted him. That speaks volumes.
And don't you dare bring up the Astral plane feat from Onslaught. He didn't say he needed Cable's help to access the astral plane. He said he needed Cable's help to PHYSICALLY TELEPORT to the astral plane.
at the bottom.. teleporting himself (if anyone is skeptic 馃槢)
and yes.. some are comparing apocalypse with wwh which could be a bit unfair
maybe this one should win this battle
thnks badash for this scan 馃槢
apocalypse with control over space and time should win hulk and juggernaut
anyway apoc could teleport hulk to another place and removing him from battle. It's just a matter of being creative with his bunch of powers
byee
Originally posted by TricksterPriest馃槀 Funny.
This is outright bias. 馃槖
Originally posted by TricksterPriestMaybe you do.
We use all kinds of one time feats for powers and abilities,
Originally posted by TricksterPriestOne-time feats shouldn't really be used in general - that's the point of the SvFL and PIS rules. Otherwise they wouldn't be there...
and you have the gall to denounce a one use from Apoc as SMvsFL? 馃憞
Originally posted by TricksterPriestRegardless of how much you think it speaks volumes, it says nothing of any telepathic ability. He has a mind-reading feat where he technically still failed to learn of Ozymandias' secrets, and a possible psiblast which in itself gives no gauge of telepathic skill or power, while being amplified by external technology which further makes the feat questionable if it was even telepathy.
He gave Exodus his powers and one-shotted him. That speaks volumes.
Originally posted by TricksterPriestActually all he says is that "only one man has the power to take me there", the man being Cable and the there being the Astral Plane. It doesn't make any reference to physicality - if they wanted to enter the Citadel physically they could have. So it's a perfectly accurate description to say he needs a telepath capable of accessing the Astral Plane to take him there. Feel free to show proof positive that he can access the Astral Plane on his own power though.
And don't you dare bring up the Astral plane feat from Onslaught. He didn't say he needed Cable's help to access the astral plane. He said he needed Cable's help to PHYSICALLY TELEPORT to the astral plane.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Huh? 馃槙 They were standing outside Onslaughts Citadel at the beginning of the issue before they even entered the Astral Plane. They could have entered it head on...but they would have been caught.
The idea behind entering the Astral Plane was to enter his fortress undetected as Apocalypse said. But as shown below they failed...they were noticed the moment they entered Onslaughts fortress.Onslaughts Citadel is located "Outside the Astral Plane"
Onslaughts Citadel was unique in the sense that...it was built out of Solidified Telepathic Energy and could be accessed both from the Physical Realm and The Astral Realm. It was lying in an inbetween...that's presumbly how Susan and Apocalypse could use their powers in their as that inbetween realm consisted of solidified thought... I mean Onslaught in his citadel created solid thought manifestations of the Hulk and Magneto...I'm not entirely sure how that worked...
When Onslaught throws them out, they land back in the same place they started:
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
馃槀 Funny.
Maybe you do.One-time feats shouldn't really be used in general - that's the point of the SvFL and PIS rules. Otherwise they wouldn't be there...
Regardless of how much you think it speaks volumes, it says nothing of any telepathic ability. He has a mind-reading feat where he technically still failed to learn of Ozymandias' secrets, and a possible psiblast which in itself gives no gauge of telepathic skill or power, while being amplified by external technology which further makes the feat questionable if it was even telepathy.
Actually all he says is that "only one man has the power to take me there", the man being Cable and the there being the Astral Plane. It doesn't make any reference to physicality - if they wanted to enter the Citadel physically they could have. So it's a perfectly accurate description to say he needs a telepath capable of accessing the Astral Plane to take him there. Feel free to show proof positive that he can access the Astral Plane on his own power though.
Hater. mhm
Originally posted by illadelph12
He doesn't have to take Hulk's life force. As I stated earlier, Hulk is essentially a walking Gamma Reactor and various other characters have siphoned his energy to weaken him (Surfer, US Army, Leader, etc), and Apocalypse can absorb (or forcibly extract) external energy sources, as well as simply morph his body into machinery or weaponry capable of doing so.All while operating in the comfort and security of standing behind a self generated forcefield.
If you really think about it, Hulk's popularity and Apocalypse's enmity not withstanding, the outcome is obvious.
The Army did it in the the 60s and 70's,the Leader is to intelligence as Hulk is to strength,Surfer...Surfer is above Apoc in everyway(thats like me stating the Darwin example to debate Apoc's ability to drain energy).
Really if it boils down to it,all Apoc's abilities are based off of hearsay and imaginative thinking.Not once has Apoc shown the competance to pull off some of the stuff you've given him the ability to do.
