geocentric theory: catholic propaganda?

Started by AngryManatee42 pages

Originally posted by Transfinitum
>>No problem at all. Since the universal barycenter is defined as the point at which the sum total of gravitational forces of all the masses of the universe are mutually balanced, that is to say, it is the center of all the masses of the rotating universe, then the sum total of all those forces is zero at the barycenter, and the planetary vectors have no effect on the barycentric Earth.

Looking forward to your hurricane citations.

They talked about it during the whole Hurricane Katrina fiasco, or did you miss that one?

Feel free to draw me some free-body diagrams showing how the planets all cancel each other out (be sure to take into account all the different locations the planets can take over a period of time as pertaining to where there located around earth as well as to other planets, and not to mention the sun's orbit as well) considering they don't orbit around the sun at the same rate.

Or, you can find yourself a book of differential equation formulas and they'll most likely have a formula (or a couple) for basic planetary oscillations (most likely second order partial differential wave equations).

Not to mention, if the object that's at the "universal" barycenter does not rotate, then why does the earth have an equatorial bulge?

Originally posted by Transfinitum
Done.
Originally posted by Transfinitum
If you feel that any point in this debate went unanswered by me, please feel free to repost. After all its always easier to deal with something the second time around 🙂 . As for AngryManatee, tell him to look up the word barycenter on this thread and he will have his answer.

You are not dealing with it a second time.

Does Mars go around the Earth or the Sun or Both?

Why does Mars seem to travel backwards at times?

Don't post something you posted before. It comes across as arrogant and insulting. I think the problem is that you don't get it. It's not the ideas you have that make people not like you, it's the way you treat them.

"I am the center of the universe"

"I do not walk across the room; I push with my feet against the Earth and the Universe."

"The Earth and the universe respond to my push by spinning beneath me."

"I am the most important thing in the universe."

For me the universe revolves around the Porsche 917K awesome

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are not dealing with it a second time.

Does Mars go around the Earth or the Sun or Both?

Why does Mars seem to travel backwards at times?

Don't post something you posted before. It comes across as arrogant and insulting. I think the problem is that you don't get it. It's not the ideas you have that make people not like you, it's the way you treat them.


I understand that you do not like me. With respect, this is a matter of complete indifference to me. What is important is that the scientific aspect of your objection has been thoroughly, honestly and fairly addressed. If you refuse to acknowledge what is going on in front of your eyes, clearly your problems with my positions are not of a scientific nature.

Originally posted by Transfinitum
I understand that you do not like me. With respect, this is a matter of complete indifference to me. What is important is that the scientific aspect of your objection has been thoroughly, honestly and fairly addressed. If you refuse to acknowledge what is going on in front of your eyes, clearly your problems with my positions are not of a scientific nature.

So, "I don't like you" is the only thing you got out of that? 😆 I was trying to make a point about how you talk to people on the forum. 😐

If I were to destroy the Earth by colliding a equal amount of antimatter into it, would the sun and planets change their orbit, and would this change (if they did) be significant?

Originally posted by AngryManatee
They talked about it during the whole Hurricane Katrina fiasco, or did you miss that one?

>>I certainly did.
I again ask you to please provide the scientific citation which provides the actual experiment which measured the alleged decrease in rotational velocity, how and when it was measured, etc.

If I do not receive a response from you on this, I will conclude that we have yet another recycling of the urban legend originally posted over at BAUT, and this will be the second time I have caught you fishing :-)

Originally posted by AngryManatee
Feel free to draw me some free-body diagrams showing how the planets all cancel each other out (be sure to take into account all the different locations the planets can take over a period of time as pertaining to where there located around earth as well as to other planets, and not to mention the sun's orbit as well) considering they don't orbit around the sun at the same rate.

>>Thank heavens none of this will be be necessary. Since physics cannot adequately account for the mutual interactions of even three bodies, much less the huge number (including planets, moons, asteroids, comets, and artificial satellites) required just for a Solar System-wide treatment of the type you demand here, I can reiterate, that in a closed, rotating universe, there will be, under the laws of physics, one and precisely one place at which ALL of the rotating masses will be precisely balanced.

The Universe does the math for us, in a geocentric universe, just as it does the math for us in any gyroscope, without us having to calculate the mutual interactions of all the bodies involved (which our physics is incapable of doing anyway-- if you doubt this, please click here for an explanation: http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/RestrictedThree-BodyProblem.html)

Originally posted by AngryManatee
Or, you can find yourself a book of differential equation formulas and they'll most likely have a formula (or a couple) for basic planetary oscillations (most likely second order partial differential wave equations).

>>Apparently no one has taught you the implications of the n-body problem. Please do click the link above, and also the one that is included there for "n-body problem". You will see that not a physicist on earth is prepared to provide you a mathematical formula accounting for the mutual gravitational interactions of even three bodies, much less the thousands upon thousands of bodies in near space.

Originally posted by AngryManatee
Not to mention, if the object that's at the "universal" barycenter does not rotate, then why does the earth have an equatorial bulge?

>>A good question, but one which was exhaustively covered back in the earlier stages of this thread, as below:

Originally posted by Transfinitum
"In 1918 Thirring wrote a paper entitled "On the Effect of Rotating Distant Masses in Einstein's Theory of Gravitation". On page 37 he writes, "As one can see the first terms of the x and y components correspond to the Corillis force, and the second terms correspond to the centrifugal force. The third equation yields the surprising result that the centrifugal force possesses an axial component. " [Note to AngryManatee: that "axial component" is precisely the term which corresponds to the "equatorial bulge" in the physics of a rotating Earth]. Thirring says that objects near the equator attain more mass than objects at the poles since objects near the equator are moving faster. Relativity says that objects in motion have more mass than immobile objects, thus it is the extra mass in motion that is creating the axial centrifugal force. Thirring says that the above situation would be the same if the universe, rotating around Earth, had a greater proportion of its mass at the equator and less at its poles. This would also account for the force necessary for the universe to precess, or wobble, as it turns; thus creating the seasons and the other precessional phenomenon we see in the sky. As in all gyroscopes, the center of mass does not move, and thus the universe can rotate and precess, accounting for the seasons; without ever disturbing the Earth.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If I were to destroy the Earth by colliding a equal amount of antimatter into it, would the sun and planets change their orbit, and would this change (if they did) be significant?

>>I would need to know a little more about the force of the explosion. Unless there is some humongously gigantimous force resulting, my initial guess would be "no way Jose", since the combined force (mass times acceleration) of a rotating Universe would so completely dwarf the force (mass times acceleration) of an Earth-annihilating explosion.

Now, is anybody at all prepared to even address the issues raised in my CMB posts?

I mean, really, guys. Aren't you even the slightest bit impressed that you have seen here two scientific studies published within the last three months, both of which devastate the Universe your physics professors are going to flunk you if you question?

"In 1918 Thirring wrote a paper entitled "On the Effect of Rotating Distant Masses in Einstein's Theory of Gravitation". On page 37 he writes, "As one can see the first terms of the x and y components correspond to the Corillis force, and the second terms correspond to the centrifugal force. The third equation yields the surprising result that the centrifugal force possesses an axial component. " [Note to AngryManatee: that "axial component" is precisely the term which corresponds to the "equatorial bulge" in the physics of a rotating Earth]. Thirring says that objects near the equator attain more mass than objects at the poles since objects near the equator are moving faster. Relativity says that objects in motion have more mass than immobile objects, thus it is the extra mass in motion that is creating the axial centrifugal force. Thirring says that the above situation would be the same if the universe, rotating around Earth, had a greater proportion of its mass at the equator and less at its poles. This would also account for the force necessary for the universe to precess, or wobble, as it turns; thus creating the seasons and the other precessional phenomenon we see in the sky. As in all gyroscopes, the center of mass does not move, and thus the universe can rotate and precess, accounting for the seasons; without ever disturbing the Earth.

Ok so tell me if I'm interpreting this correctly: You're saying that the reason the earth has an equatorial bulge is because most of the mass orbiting around it is orbiting about the equator, and the gravitational forces from these objects are what cause the earth to have an equatorial bulge?

Anywho, why do the other rotating planets/bodies have equatorial bulges then?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You could never answer my first few questions, and others. You have been shown how you are wrong again and again by other people more knowledgeable then I. Just go back and read everything that Templares or AngryManatee has posted.

I see no reason to continue. All you do is show how arrogant you are. Just look at how you handled what I said about debate and blogs. You don't show that you even understood what I said. All you did was try and turn it into an attack.

shaky id prefer it if you stop posting. no offence but your posts dont have any scientific information, but rather tiny little claims which even i, a heliocentrist, could quash if i was a geocentrist. please refrain from posting, because i SERIOUSLY doubt you have any evidence against his claims. of course please join me in laughing at him, but allow the knowledgeable people to post the evidence.

Originally posted by AngryManatee
k so tell me if I'm interpreting this correctly: You're saying that the reason the earth has an equatorial bulge is because most of the mass orbiting around it is orbiting about the equator, and the gravitational forces from these objects are what cause the earth to have an equatorial bulge?

>>Exactamundo. More precisely, it is Han Thirring who is telling you that, via Albert Einstein's gravitational equations.

Originally posted by AngryManatee
Anywho, why do the other rotating planets/bodies have equatorial bulges then?

>>Because they are rotating, and the Theory of relativity requires that the forces arise in either case, with perfect equivalence.

Originally posted by Transfinitum
>>Exactamundo. More precisely, it is Han Thirring who is telling you that, via Albert Einstein's gravitational equations.

>>Because they are rotating, and the Theory of relativity requires that the forces arise in either case, with perfect equivalence.

But see the problem with that is that based on the heliocentric model, the earth has an axial tilt, which means that the motion in which it rotates is not lined up with the path which it rotates around the sun, which explains the lengthening of days and the change of seasons, but it brings into question the idea of other celestial bodies having influence on our bulging shape. Considering the moon has the most noticeable gravitational influence over our planet (tides and whatnot), it would be logical to say that it would be the most responsible for the formation of any bulges. Only one problem, the moon is slightly off earth's ecliptical orbit, and it does not orbit around our celestial equator.

So my next question, why would the earth form an equatorial bulge along its own celestial equator, as opposed to the path(s) in which the planets/sun/ moon orbit around it?

Originally posted by AngryManatee
But see the problem with that is that based on the heliocentric model, the earth has an axial tilt, which means that the motion in which it rotates is not lined up with the path which it rotates around the sun, which explains the lengthening of days and the change of seasons, but it brings into question the idea of other celestial bodies having influence on our bulging shape.

>>Again. Basic Relativity. Thirring's paper- which is one of the most famous in the history of Relativity, btw- shows that the same physical forces arise, whether an object is:
1. At the barycenter of a rotating universe, OR
2. Rotating on its own axis while orbiting another, more massive body, in a non-rotating, acentric universe, OR
3. Rotating on its own axis, while orbiting another, more massive body which is itself at the barycenter of a rotating universe.

So it is important to reiterate, that each and every objection you are raising here, based on the idea that one reference frame or the other "has to be" the "right" one, from the standpoint of Relativistic physics, involves the implicit assumption that Relativity is not only wrong, but that it is obviously, screamingly, massively wrong- that is, something as obvious as whether the moon experiences an axial centrifugal force could determine whether one or another reference frame is "right", while another is "wrong".

I am sure you can appreciate that if Relativity were that easily disproven, it would never have lasted fifteen minutes, much less one hundred years.

Originally posted by AngryManatee
Considering the moon has the most noticeable gravitational influence over our planet
(tides and whatnot), it would be logical to say that it would be the most responsible for the formation of any bulges. Only one problem, the moon is slightly off earth's ecliptical orbit, and it does not orbit around our celestial equator.

>>This is why the axial centrifugal force is not derived from the gravitational influence of the moon on the earth, but rather from:
1. The rotational velocity of the Earth (greater at the equator) in the heliocentric model), OR
2. The greater concentration of the universal rotating mass toward the Earth's equator, relative to its poles (geocentric model).

Notice that in BOTH models, it is the "distant masses" of the Universe, and NOT the gravitational influence of the moon, which is responsible for the axial centrifugal (as well as the Coriolis and Euler) forces.

Originally posted by AngryManatee
So my next question, why would the earth form an equatorial bulge along its own celestial equator, as opposed to the path(s) in which the planets/sun/ moon orbit around it?

>>The answer is as above, to repeat: The axial centrifugal (as well as the Coriolis and Euler) forces arise, in the geocentric model, not as a specific consequence of gravitational influence of Solar System objects, but instead as a consequence of the masses of a rotating Universe, more concentrated toward the Earth's equator than its poles, attracting the relatively greater mass of the Earth's equator, as opposed to any point nearer the poles.

The axial centrifugal (as well as Coriolis and Euler) forces arise, in the heliocentric model, not as a specific consequence of gravitational influences of Solar System objects, but instead as a consequence of greater rotational velocity at the Earth's equator resulting in an increase of mass, which in turn is "attracted" by the "distant masses" treated as "gravitational potentials" in Einstein's equations.

I leave aside for the moment a detailed treatment of the difficulties involved in asserting that a steady rotational velocity equates to an "acceleration" -we have covered that extensively in the debate with Sleepy about Newton's bucket. Suffice it to say that the geocentrist is not required to derive the axial, centrifugal, and Coriolis forces as mere "fictional" forces, arising from a treatment of deviation from straight-line (relative to what?) motion as "acceleration", even if it is of uniform velocity. I wish I could get you to see how important this is- we have built a physics that has tremendous difficulties explaining forces arising in rotating reference frames- and the geocentrist points out that this is because we have proceeded from the ASSUMPTION that any motion which departs from a straight line (again- RELATIVE TO WHAT???) will be treated as if it were an "acceleration", even if it is uniform.

Why?

Because it doesn't work mathematically otherwise 🙂

In the geocentric model these forces have a physical, logical cause: the distant rotating masses. No "fictional" notions of "acceleration" being used to treat even uniform non-linear motion (sorry, but again I ask- non-linear with reference to what ????) as an "acceleration" to get the maths to work out right.

I very much appreciate the excellent questions you are asking, but I would ask you to spend a moment considering the observation I have made above about the consequences of Relativity Theory for ANY argument which is based on the implicit assumption of a "preferred" reference frame for calculating gross physical forces.

Obviously, if relativity were wrong on the level of gross physical forces like these, it would have been easily falsified immediately.

Instead, it was extremely difficult to falsify, and in fact could only be falsified by putting objects into space which could provide us with empirical proof that there DOES exist a "preferred reference frame", one in which the speed of light is constant, while it is NOT constant in other reference frames.

The falsification is being completed now, as we observe deep space structures in our Universe which directly contradict the assumoptions of "Big Bang" Relativity, and as we observe a geocentric orientation in the Cosmic Microwave Background which is the death knell for our Standard Theory cosmology.

THIS IS FOR TRANS

On Quasar and the galaxy connection

Quasar are the compact halo of matter surrounding the central supermassive black hole of a young galaxy. Nothing weird with the quasar/galaxy relationship. Halton Arp is a misguided, fringe scientist who still thinks that quasars are objects spitted out by galaxies on some specific distance.

On JPL software etc. etc.

http://www.aliceinphysics.com/introduce/ion.pdf . Tran's JPL lies are on page 5.

Still adamant even though youre caught red-handed of lying. Throw enough mud and some of them might stick.

The JPL equations [10], used to track signals from
interplanetary space probes, verify that the speed of light
is with respect to the chosen frame. In the JPL equations,
the chosen frame is the solar system barycentric frame.

The motion of receivers during the signal transit time from
earth to probe and from probe to earth is taken into
account. Even the motion of the earth around the
moon/earth center of mass is taken into account.
Clearly,
the JPL equations treat the speed of light as constant with
respect to the frame—not as constant with respect to the
receivers. In the GPS nomenclature, the one-way Sagnac
effect must be accounted for on all signal paths."

The chosen frame used by JPL to track interplanetary space probes is the solar system's barycenter AND NOT the Earth-centric ECI frame as described in this quote: "NavCom Technology, Inc. has licensed software developed by the Jet Propulsion Lab (JPL) which, because of historical reasons, does the entire computation in the ECI frame." This particular quote was LIFTED from a different subsection of the study and was deviously and dishonestly combined by Trans with the first line of the paragraph above to make it appear that JPL uses an Earth centric frame for interplanetary probes.

So pathetic.

On Hartnett

http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/3530

John G. Hartnett is a follower of Halton Arp but worse than that, he is a notorious CREATION SCIENTIST specifically a retarded Young Earth creationist (YEC). Needless to say, the man has a blatant religious agenda in mind when he did that redshift quantization study of his. Talk about your sources being biased and unreliable.

Some of his works for the Creation Ministries International includes:
- The Lawgiver is the biblical Creator God
- Youngest and brightest galaxy … or is it?
- Islam: Cult of apartheid in the West
- Bye-bye, big bang?

Truly a credible source :rollseyes:.

On Tomozawa

Unlike in the study you cited, Tomozawa actually applied his calculations to compute for his so called "center of the universe" in the following study:

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/0701/0701151v5.pdf

The CMB Dipole and Circular Galaxy Distribution
Yukio Tomozawa
Michigan Center for Theoretical Physics and
Randall Laboratory of Physics
University of Michigan and
Ann Arbor, MI. 48109-1040 USA
(Dated: February 4, 2008)

His computations show that the "center of the Universe" is around 22MPc to 25 MPc or around 66 to 75 million light years away from the Solar System! If Tomozawa is right, the "center of the universe" is SO NOT the Earth. Is this really the kind of geocentric proof youre looking for?

On WMAP, Longo, axis of evil whatever

Typical creationist debating tactic. Magnify the flaws while downplaying the success of the pervading scientific theory in question. Yeah lets abandon the Big Bang/cosmic inflation becuase WMAP showed the existence the "axis of evil" which could be explained by gravitational lensing (Local Pancake Defeats Axis of Evil: http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0509039), unknown foreground contamination, an illusion generated by statistics etc., nevermind that WMAP confirmed Standard Cosmology's prediction of the age of the universe (sorry YECs), its shape, the processes occuring in the early Universe etc.

And also this, note the date of the article
http://sedgemore.com/2008/04/does-there-really-exist-an-axis-of-evil/

"Kate Land who is one of the researchers who first discovered the "axis of evil", who is now at the University of Oxford, has found that people have a subconscious bias when it comes to picking clockwise and anticlockwise orientations in images presented to them. She discovered this when some of the galaxy images were flipped, and then run past a subset of the original volunteer analysts with the same result. “Rather than the universe being odd, it might be that people are odd,” she says. Rarely has a truer work been spoken."

So basically the axis of evil exists simply because of human statistical bias.

Yet another brain cell draining, time wasting debate with our resident Knowledgeable Poser Trans. Could i go back to Niko Bellic now?

Originally posted by Templares
[b]THIS IS FOR TRANS

On Quasar and the galaxy connection

Quasar are the compact halo of matter surrounding the central supermassive black hole of a young galaxy. Nothing weird with the quasar/galaxy relationship. Halton Arp is a misguided, fringe scientist who still thinks that quasars are objects spitted out by galaxies on some specific distance.

On JPL software etc. etc.

http://www.aliceinphysics.com/introduce/ion.pdf . Tran's JPL lies are on page 5.

Still adamant even though youre caught red-handed of lying. Throw enough mud and some of them might stick.

The JPL equations [10], used to track signals from
interplanetary space probes, verify that the speed of light
is with respect to the chosen frame. In the JPL equations,
the chosen frame is the solar system barycentric frame.

The motion of receivers during the signal transit time from
earth to probe and from probe to earth is taken into
account. Even the motion of the earth around the
moon/earth center of mass is taken into account.
Clearly,
the JPL equations treat the speed of light as constant with
respect to the frame—not as constant with respect to the
receivers. In the GPS nomenclature, the one-way Sagnac
effect must be accounted for on all signal paths."

The chosen frame used by JPL to track interplanetary space probes is the solar system's barycenter AND NOT the Earth-centric ECI frame as described in this quote: "NavCom Technology, Inc. has licensed software developed by the Jet Propulsion Lab (JPL) which, because of historical reasons, does the entire computation in the ECI frame." This particular quote was LIFTED from a different subsection of the study and was deviously and dishonestly combined by Trans with the first line of the paragraph above to make it appear that JPL uses an Earth centric frame for interplanetary probes.

So pathetic.

On Hartnett

http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/3530

John G. Hartnett is a follower of Halton Arp but worse than that, he is a notorious CREATION SCIENTIST specifically a retarded Young Earth creationist (YEC). Needless to say, the man has a blatant religious agenda in mind when he did that redshift quantization study of his. Talk about your sources being biased and unreliable.

Some of his works for the Creation Ministries International includes:
- The Lawgiver is the biblical Creator God
- Youngest and brightest galaxy … or is it?
- Islam: Cult of apartheid in the West
- Bye-bye, big bang?

Truly a credible source :rollseyes:.

On Tomozawa

Unlike in the study you cited, Tomozawa actually applied his calculations to compute for his so called "center of the universe" in the following study:

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/0701/0701151v5.pdf

The CMB Dipole and Circular Galaxy Distribution
Yukio Tomozawa
Michigan Center for Theoretical Physics and
Randall Laboratory of Physics
University of Michigan and
Ann Arbor, MI. 48109-1040 USA
(Dated: February 4, 2008)

His computations show that the "center of the Universe" is around 22MPc to 25 MPc or around 66 to 75 million light years away from the Solar System! If Tomozawa is right, the "center of the universe" is SO NOT the Earth. Is this really the kind of geocentric proof youre looking for?

On WMAP, Longo, axis of evil whatever

Typical creationist debating tactic. Magnify the flaws while downplaying the success of the pervading scientific theory in question. Yeah lets abandon the Big Bang/cosmic inflation becuase WMAP showed the existence the "axis of evil" which could be explained by gravitational lensing (Local Pancake Defeats Axis of Evil: http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0509039), unknown foreground contamination, an illusion generated by statistics etc., nevermind that WMAP confirmed Standard Cosmology's prediction of the age of the universe (sorry YECs), its shape, the processes occuring in the early Universe etc.

And also this, note the date of the article
http://sedgemore.com/2008/04/does-there-really-exist-an-axis-of-evil/

"Kate Land who is one of the researchers who first discovered the "axis of evil", who is now at the University of Oxford, has found that people have a subconscious bias when it comes to picking clockwise and anticlockwise orientations in images presented to them. She discovered this when some of the galaxy images were flipped, and then run past a subset of the original volunteer analysts with the same result. “Rather than the universe being odd, it might be that people are odd,” she says. Rarely has a truer work been spoken."

So basically the axis of evil exists simply because of human statistical bias.

Yet another brain cell draining, time wasting debate with our resident Knowledgeable Poser Trans. Could i go back to Niko Bellic now? [/B]

2 things. THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! you constantly refute trans arguments, which i supremely appreciate. mind you keep on pluggin. i applaude you! *clap*

second i need to get gta4. then when i do, i will mercilessly slaughter you online 😄

THIS IS FOR SLEEPY

What a remarkable post you have come up with here, Sleepy. It appears that you are approximately 99.5% of the way to a geocentrist position, since you now either openly accept, or tacitly admit you cannot refute, all of the following:

1. Quasars, galaxies, GRB's, Bl Lacs, and X-Ray sources are all concentrically arranged on spherical shells with Earth at the center;
2. The speed of light is NOT a constant in all reference frames, and therefore the Theory of Relativity has been falsified in its most basic assumption;
3. The existence of the CMB dipole constitutes mathematical proof that the Universe must possess a center, in direct contradiction to Standard Theory;
4. The researcher who proved #3 above places that center within 70 million light years of Earth, which means your own source for the location of that universal center is approximately 99.5% in agreement with the geocentric position (within app. 70 million light years in an app. thirteen billion light year Standard Theory Universe).

Shucks, Sleepy, I am deeply touched and honored that you have been able to come such a long way in such a short time, and we are going to get even further starting today, since your 0.5% error in arriving at the actual universal center can easily be shown by careful consideration of the implications of your hilarious and crushing defeat on point #1 above, which, for entertainment purposes, I would like to address first.

The following might possibly be the most hilarious example of the "argumentum ad hominem" I have ever witnessed in a scientific debate. I truly will treasure this one for a lifetime, Sleepy, and it will forever remain among your Hall of Fame Howlers as the classic "I can't refute this guy's data, so instead I'll just raise a ruckus about where he goes to Church on Sunday" argument:

Originally posted by Templares
"On Hartnett

http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/3530

John G. Hartnett is a follower of Halton Arp but worse than that, he is a notorious CREATION SCIENTIST specifically a retarded Young Earth creationist (YEC). Needless to say, the man has a blatant religious agenda in mind when he did that redshift quantization study of his. Talk about your sources being biased and unreliable.

Some of his works for the Creation Ministries International includes:
- The Lawgiver is the biblical Creator God
- Youngest and brightest galaxy … or is it?
- Islam: Cult of apartheid in the West
- Bye-bye, big bang?

Truly a credible source :rollseyes:."

LOL! I have to hand it to you, Sleepy. You have got chutzpah, my friend. The author- unlike you, a PhD physicist, with an institutional affiliation as both researcher and professor, has submitted a research paper just like everyone else has to do on Cornell University's ArXiv site. The paper has been subjected to the review of his institutional peers, and is published so that ACTUAL scientists (as opposed to ignoble bigots such as yourself, Sleepy), can examine the data, the Fourier analysis, and the conclusions.

Since you were unable to refute any of these findings, Sleepy, you instead decided to give us all a much more than generous look at the repulsively ugly bigotry which underlies your fanatically anti-scientific "argument", which is in fact not an argument at all, but is instead the rankest sort of blatant inducement to gutter-level bigotry.

I can think of no more crushing and conclusive proof of your utter, humiliating, and resounding defeat on the question of quantization of quasar redshifts, than your bigot's non-refutation here.

STRIKE ONE. SLEEPY ADMITS HE CANNOT REFUTE THE QUASAR REDSHIFT PERIODIZATION RESULTS FOUND BY HARTNET.

Therefore Point #1 above STANDS UNREFUTED.

NEXT: Sleepy trots out the "It's all just a case of mass-psychological self hypnosis" argument, as his "best shot" against the "Axis of Evil"!

STAY TUNED!

http://www.evolutionpages.com/pink_unicorn.htm

read

Having failed to even attempt a refutation of Hartnett's Fourier analysis of the complete, most recent and complete Sloan Digital Sky Survey quasar data- an analysis which absolutely devastates Sleepy's position and reduces him to an ugly and shameful episode of religious bigotry―as if the religious beliefs of a PhD physical scientist were of any relevance at all to his Fourier analysis of a dataset- Sleepy is now about to attempt to convince you that the "Axis of Evil" is nothing more than a case of psychological impediment- a sort of mass-psychosis afflicting scientists which, he is about to assure us in all seriousness, renders them literally unable to tell their right hand from their left!

Originally posted by Templares
"On WMAP, Longo, axis of evil whatever

Typical creationist debating tactic."

>>What is becoming quite uncomfortably typical here, sir, is your obvious and profoundly abhorrent personal bigotry toward those who hold the Christian faith. Since that number would include, among many others, the originator of the Copernican system itself, its chief defender Galileo, its great discoverer of elliptical orbits Kepler, the discoverer of the original formula for gravitation Sir Isaac Newton, the co-discoverer of the calculus and founder of the science of dynamics Gottfried Wilhelm Liebniz, the discoverer of the conic sections as the principle of comet and asteroid orbits Carl Gauss, the discoverer of the geometry of multiply-connected manifolds (the mathematical basis for Einstein's General Relativity) Bernard Riemann, not to mention such great discoverers and benefactors of the human race as Leonardo da Vinci, Bernoulli, Pascal, Curie, and so many others that to name them would be as impossible as it would be superfluous, it is quite evident that for you claim that a man's Christianity, is somehow to be admitted as evidence of his scientific invalidity, is nothing other than persuasive proof that you have been completely bested in scientific debate, and have no ground left upon which to mount your pathetic attacks, than that of the bigot and the yahoo.

Originally posted by Templares
"Magnify the flaws while downplaying the success of the pervading scientific theory in question."

>>It is certainly true, that you yourself have proven unable to defend the scientific consensus you claim to represent here. You have failed utterly to refute the quantization evidence for redshifts. You have openly admitted that the JPL software used to control both GPS and deep-space probes is based upon an explicit violation of the most basic principle of Relativity- we will see you acknowledge this in your very own post, later on in this process of final demolition of your remarkably ill-advised series of contortions.

Originally posted by Templares
"Yeah lets abandon the Big Bang/cosmic inflation becuase WMAP showed the existence the "axis of evil" which could be explained by gravitational lensing (Local Pancake Defeats Axis of Evil: http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0509039),"

>>Debunked here: http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/astro-ph/pdf/0510/0510137v1.pdf
Did WMAP see Moving Local Structures?
Asantha Cooray, Naoki Seto
Department of Physics and Astronomy, University of California, Irvine, CA 92617
October 5, 2005

The study you cite is specifically addressed, and shown to be unable to account for the observed anisotropy. The authors conclude:

"While the local anisotropy contribution peaks at low multipoles, for reasonable models of the mass and velocity distributions associated with local super structures we find that the amplitude of temperature anisotropies is at most at a level of 10-2μK and is substantially smaller than primordial fluctuations. It is extremely unlikely that the momentum density of local mass concentrations is responsible for any of the large angular scale anomalies in WMAP data ."

Originally posted by Templares
unknown foreground contamination,

>>Debunked here:
http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0707/0707.3793.pdf

"The approximate agreement of the spin alignment axis with the WMAP quadrupole/ octopole axes reinforces the finding of an asymmetry in spiral galaxy handedness and suggests that this special axis spans the universe. The fact that the spin asymmetry appears to be independent of redshift suggests that it is not connected to local structure. On the other hand, the spiral galaxy handedness represents a unique and completely independent confirmation that the AE [Axis of Evil] is not an artifact in the WMAP data due to foreground contamination ."
Originally posted by Templares
"an illusion generated by statistics etc., "

>>I see no reference, so I guess this "refutation" of yours is just an example of an illusion generated by lack of statistics, eh? :-)

Originally posted by Templares
"nevermind that WMAP confirmed Standard Cosmology's prediction of the age of the universe (sorry YECs), its shape, the processes occuring in the early Universe etc."

>> Wait a second- I thought it was all an illusion, a statistical illusion―that it was all a case of foreground contamination? But now the same data set, from the same probe, somehow turns into confirmation of the age of the universe, its shape, and whatever other little dipsy-do cherry-picking you care to casually toss off as confirmed by the very same evidence you just dismissed when it didn't suit you?

You are a complete and laughable fraud.

But the very best is yet to come.

Having nothing better to offer, Sleepy is now about to assure us that, you see, we are literally unable to distinguish our right hand from our left, and that this is why Longo's paper confirming the "Axis of Evil" cannot be trusted.

Originally posted by Templares
"And also this, note the date of the article
http://sedgemore.com/2008/04/does-t...n-axis-of-evil/

"Kate Land who is one of the researchers who first discovered the "axis of evil", who is now at the University of Oxford, has found that people have a subconscious bias when it comes to picking clockwise and anticlockwise orientations in images presented to them. She discovered this when some of the galaxy images were flipped, and then run past a subset of the original volunteer analysts with the same result. "Rather than the universe being odd, it might be that people are odd," she says. Rarely has a truer work been spoken."

So basically the axis of evil exists simply because of human statistical bias.

Yet another brain cell draining, time wasting debate with our resident Knowledgeable Poser Trans. Could i go back to Niko Bellic now?"

>>I would actually like to take a shower now, after wading through the sewage of bigotry you posted earlier in your catastrophic attempt to "refute" Hartnett. But let us be very clear. You are not quoting a scientific study here, as I am with Longo's paper. You are posting a bloody blog, quoting from a 364 word "human interest" piece in a popular science magazine!!!!

Has anybody actually bothered to dare to submit a scientific study of this supposed "answer" to Longo's exhaustive, carefully researched paper?

Has it occurred to no one else that to claim that the reason Longo is wrong, is that we as a species cannot tell our right hand from our left, is something so laughable that no respectable scientific website, such as ArXive, would ever post such tripe, in the absence of scientific proof?

If it hasn't, it should have. Longo has responded to this NONSENSE, in an updated version of his earlier-cited paper, from which I quote here:
arxiv.org/pdf/0707.3793

"In an earlier version of this analysis (Longo, 2007) the JPEG file for each spiral galaxy was submitted to an IDL program to determine its handedness ."

So, the original scans were not even DONE visually, but instead submitted to a computer program. Is software, then, also incapable of telling the right hand from the left, Sleepy? Is software also "biased"?

This is just absurd. Longo continues:

"The algorithm used for this analysis was based on a rotating one-armed spiral mask similar in shape to half of the spiral in Fig. 1(c). However, the algorithm was developed using spirals at fairly low redshifts, and it was belatedly realized that its efficiency at larger redshifts was poor. Visual scanning was found to be considerably more efficient and was easy to take precautions to eliminate any human bias toward left or right-handedness . "

So, we see that Longo not only submitted every one of his earlier observations to a software program, thus eliminating the claim of "human bias", but that he subsequently visually scanned the spirals, and consciously taking steps to avoid any human bias toward left or right-handedness .

As the poor, desperate, crushed Sleepy might as well acknowledge by now, his whole pathetic gambit here collapses as Longo reports:

" The results of the two analyses are in complete agreement ."

As the saying goes, denial is more than just a river in Egypt, when it comes to our Sleepy's wacky and wonderful contortions in the face of the steadily mounting scientific evidence of a Universe utterly out of sync with the assumptions of his "scientific consensus".

But then again, Sleep himself no longer seems to uphold that consensus. Coming up next, we are about to see Sleepy explicitly INSIST that the speed of light is NOT a constant in all reference frames------which, I think, is about what he would dismiss as a "fringe scientist" argument, or a"typical creationist tactic", if he could get away with it.

Which, as we shall see, he can't , because NEXT: SLEEPY GOES "FRINGE", DENIES E=MC^2! 🙂