geocentric theory: catholic propaganda?

Started by leonheartmm42 pages

You have no proof for this position whatsoever, and if you insist upon it, then you simultaneously insist that General Relativity is wrong. You must now prove both propositions. Good luck.

fallacy. you are providing false choices. general reletivity proves your argument wrong but u post shady hypothesis which are again proven wrong. the scenarios you post are completely alien and inconcistant. i dont have to prove general reletivity wrong at all, you just have to look at the above argument.


Sorry, wrong again. It is the center of MASS, not the center of GRAVITY, that the Earth occupies in the geocentric Universe. It is extremely important to learn the difference. The gyroscope does not rotate around the center of gravity, obviously, but instead the center of mass.

See above. You have unfortunately become confused as to the difference between center of mass and center of gravity.

lmao, you are intentionally putting words in my mouth and trying to make it look like i was confused about the two. i was not, and again, it has nuthing to do with what i was saying. i was merely commenting on the strength of gravitic fields needed to keep such motion in place reletive to us. please remind me again, how strong the gravitic field strength must be for bodies to attain speeds around 30458333333 times that of the speed of light{for celestial bodies a couple of billion lightyears away} . then explain to me the entropy of the black holes and the size of the blackholes required to produce such fields{remember this is for just one celestial body} and also explain to me the probability, with the mass distribution of galaxies and even the universe as a whole{which again isnt uniform} around it how it is possible that it doesnt affect mass other than the single thing its supposed to be affecting. also tell me the mechanics of how such gravity field inducing objectis will be able to constantly be around the object and retain the same speed they do and at the same time, curve in their orbit to follow the geocentric orbit of the mass being observed from the eartha nd what kind of sensitive equilibrium wid be required for them to keep the object almost on their event horizon but not swallow it up inside them. i think ull come to come ridiculous answers.


It is not gravity which expands space. Gravity is a function of matter, which obviously does not exist outside of space. Therefore it is not gravity which is expanding space in the Standard Theory.
[/QUOT]

TUT TUT TUT. i didnt say expand space. i said STRETCH space. and you do nuthing but obscure the reply. u didnt answer my question. u said that gravitic fields can explain how the geocentric orbits of all celestial objects can be far beyond lightspeed and always make the orbit withing 24 hours, implying that the earth isnt spinning around its exis. however, i told you that the effects of no such gravitic fields{which cud impart FTL speeds } are ever detected in these regions, much less, ones strong and specfic enough to do what you propose celestial bodies do{geocentric orbit} . you are unable to reply

[QUOTE]
But you see this is precisely the problem for your team. We DO observe redshifts, at distances which are assumed to be so great, that the objects must be moving greater than the speed of light. In order to account for this observation, the current consensus is required to borrow a page from the "Big Bang" creation myth, where "inflation" allows space to expand to the volume of the solar system in less than a second. This, obviously, invloves a massive violation of the speed of light, but is accepted anyway, with the argument that "space" is somehow exempt from the constraint.

What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, my friend. If you guys can claim motion of matter greater than "c", you certainly have no grounds at all to insist that geocentrism can't.

now THIS just blatantly proves that you know very little about the subject that you are presuming to be an expert at. lol. space is not EXPANDING in any traditional way as i explained before. it expands in higher dimension and the expansion is only reletive to us. nuthing INSIDE space can travel beyond lightspeed. the speed restriction is for the fabric OF space, not SPACE ITSELF. space exists differently for different observers and hence is not an ultimate refernce frame. for example, to us a photon is moving with the speed of light in a vacume. in space and time. but for the photon, it and the world around it has forever stopped at one point in time. its the same photon but the things around it and the dimensions are vastly different from the point of view of the observer. which is why muons decay so quickly, the space time fabric is different for them at such high speeds. and it isnt accepted ANYWAY, you just do no understand that they are two seperate arguments with no corellation. the way you are trying to argue is a way a laman wud try to argue that einstien proved that energy is eternal, therefore, the human conciousness and mental energies must always exists, hence the soul being immortal.


I have shown that the only contradiction here, is your defense of a Standard Theory which insists that objects can and do move faster than the speed of light, while simultaneously calling me "ridiculous" for agreeing with you. That is indeed a contradiction, but it is one which affects your position, not mine.

objects and space are vastly different things. contradiction remains as the two have no corellation here. objects exist INSIDE space. speed =distance{IN space/time} . how can u argue the same for space expansion when u dont even know what space expands IN?


Fascinating. So some anonymous dude in a chat room decides he will tell us when Einstein is right and when Einstein is wrong, without being bothered with the pesky details of demonstrating just how and on what evidence he makes these claims.

widely quoted fact that einstied didnt agree with heisenberg's principle and always beleived that the universe was a constant and predictable system{god does not play with dice}. he was an ardent opposer of quantum theory and didnt think it was right. well gues what, every other scientist after him admitted that einstien was wrong on the account{and unreasoneable as his own work on black body radiation and photoelectron emission led to the theory being formulated} and quantum theory is currently the most well established fundamental theory. and there has NEVER been an observation contradicting the expected outcome of the theory.


You are quite wrong here. Einstein DID take away the concept of the ether, in Special Relativity. He was required to put it back, in the LATER General Theory, as he himself specifically told you in the quote I provided.

wrong, he put a cosmological constant later on to explain the expanding universe and later called it "the greatest blunder of his life". u forgot both those. the conept of an ultimate spacial or time frame{ether} was completely blasted away after reletivity was established, this is known fact.


Subsequent discoveries have completely discredited the notion of a "vacuum" in space. All mainstream physicists now accept the argument given by Stephen Hawking in "A Briefer History of Time":

"[T]he uncertainty principle means that even "empty" space is filled with pairs of virtual particles and antiparticles.......if empty space were really completely empty- it would mean that all fields, such as the gravitational and electromagnetic fields, would have to be exactly zero." (pp 122-123)

In direct contradiction to your assertion, the notion of a "vacuum" is what has been debunked, and the "ether" is very much alive, whether one calls it a
"quantum space-time foam", or a "Dirac sea", it is still precisely what the ether has always been- the physical structure filling all of space.

only problem is, those things are not ethers. you dont know the definition of ether. it is a uniform REFERENCE frame against which all thing move in space and time. and that has been debunked. what you are describing are theories which try to explain what space is. i dont htink i ever said that space was empty, i just said that things inside space are different from space itself and different rules apply.

"Compensate" for the velocities? What are you trying to say here? There is no "compensation" required. The theory itself allows velocities of any value whatever in the presence of gravitational fields, and the existence of the ether allows the actual "work" of superluminal velocities to take place within the rotation of "space " (ether), in the geocentric system, or the "expansion of space" (ether) in General Relativity.

Physics can accomodate both models.

lmao, your so inconsistant. first u say that gravity is a function of mass. then you say that gravitic fields are responsible for the FTL speed movement of celestial bodies in geocentric orbits, then when i ask you to explain where these fields are emenating from{mass as i see it} to exactly compensate enough space/time warp to contribute to the beyond light velocity, you are unable to provide an answer and vaguely hint that sumhow the ETHER{which coincidentiallty has again changed inside your definition, from quantum space time foam to again an ultimate frame of reference which can also influence the motiion of bodies inside it} is responsible for it and not gravitic fields. god ur so confused. furthermore, the expansion of SPACE {even from the point of view of earrth which u define as the centr of the universe} takes place at 90 degrees to the velocity of the objects in geocentric orbits, and can hence have no components which actually ADDS to the velocity of the object as it ORBITS and tries to finish it in 24 hours at speeds beyond that of light. that would require fields at a tangent to the geocentric orbits and the expansion of space is in the complete other direction.

furthermore, you have not elaborated on the points given about centrifugal affect of earth's rotation{RELETIVE TO EARTH ITSELF so there is no room here for you saying that it just seems that way from sum other point} which makes things wiegh less at the equaters. surely, this is evidence for earth rotating around its axis and not the universe. cause in the later cases, there wud be no reduction in wieght as there wud be no centrifuge.

Originally posted by Transfinitum
Is this serious? I have shown in multiple posts that it is not always the less massive body revolving around the more massive one. Read any of my above posts keyword, barycenter.

Oh im well aware of barycenter (i use the term center of mass in my previous post). Everything in the solar system including the sun, revolves around the solar system's barycenter. This barycenter is on or near the sun because the sun contains the bulk of the solar system's mass. The sun is nearly stationary (wobbles in its place) relative to the barcenter of the solar system.

But thats not what i want to know.

What i want to know is what mechanism COMPELS a more massive sun to orbit (and not just wobble in its place like in the heliocentric theory) a less massive earth, according to your retarded geocentric theory? It certainly isnt gravity because it is subject to an object's mass.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
thanks for adding something meaning full. oh wait.....
...don't be a ****...

Wheres Transfinitum? I really want to read his reply. Its bound to be interesting.

Originally posted by spadoinkle
Wheres Transfinitum? I really want to read his reply. Its bound to be interesting.

preparing his counter argument

geocentric theory: catholic propaganda?

Hi all. I'm new at this game and consider myself 'blog illeritate'. I have to try this first before I get down to business.

James

geocentric theory: catholic propaganda?

Great, it worked, now down to some real debate on this geocentric theory: catholic propaganda?

Having read some of the stuff on this subject I see it could go on till the end of the world. Let me now ask for some feedback. Am I engaging Catholics or am I among nominal Catholics, or are some of you Agnostics in reality but logged on to have some fun?

Let me introduce myself. I am a 65 year young Irish Catholic. I probably know more about this subject than anyone on earth. This is my second attempt to debate this the most important subject in Catholicism. The first was on a forum belonging to an Fr K that I read about last weekend in the English paper Catholic Standard. I thought these sites were places where one can call a spade a spade and that censorship was applied only in extreme cases of profanity, slander and things like that. As it happened, after my second reply was logged in it never appeared and the following day the subject itself disappeared. The reason for this is that this subject (geocentricism) is the key to the crisis in Catholicism on earth, but the TRUTH of it is too HOT to be allowed debate on Fr K's site. Anyone familiar with the La Sapienza University affair? It was about geocentricism and it was so HOT that Pope Benedict XVI couldn't take the criticism so he cancelled his visit to the College, and this a pope who went to Turkey and possible suicide bombers.

So, have I logged in to another censored site or shall we talk a bit about geocentricism and what it really means, in spite of some of the ignorant clowns who think they know better than the Churchmen of sixteen centuries?

Re: geocentric theory: catholic propaganda?

Originally posted by james o'hanlon
Great, it worked, now down to some real debate on this geocentric theory: catholic propaganda?

Having read some of the stuff on this subject I see it could go on till the end of the world. Let me now ask for some feedback. Am I engaging Catholics or am I among nominal Catholics, or are some of you Agnostics in reality but logged on to have some fun?

Let me introduce myself. I am a 65 year young Irish Catholic. I probably know more about this subject than anyone on earth. This is my second attempt to debate this the most important subject in Catholicism. The first was on a forum belonging to an Fr K that I read about last weekend in the English paper Catholic Standard. I thought these sites were places where one can call a spade a spade and that censorship was applied only in extreme cases of profanity, slander and things like that. As it happened, after my second reply was logged in it never appeared and the following day the subject itself disappeared. The reason for this is that this subject (geocentricism) is the key to the crisis in Catholicism on earth, but the TRUTH of it is too HOT to be allowed debate on Fr K's site. Anyone familiar with the La Sapienza University affair? It was about geocentricism and it was so HOT that Pope Benedict XVI couldn't take the criticism so he cancelled his visit to the College, and this a pope who went to Turkey and possible suicide bombers.

So, have I logged in to another censored site or shall we talk a bit about geocentricism and what it really means, in spite of some of the ignorant clowns who think they know better than the Churchmen of sixteen centuries?

So, what is your point of view?

Originally posted by james o'hanlon
Great, it worked, now down to some real debate on this geocentric theory: catholic propaganda?

Having read some of the stuff on this subject I see it could go on till the end of the world. Let me now ask for some feedback. Am I engaging Catholics or am I among nominal Catholics, or are some of you Agnostics in reality but logged on to have some fun?

Let me introduce myself. I am a 65 year young Irish Catholic. I probably know more about this subject than anyone on earth. This is my second attempt to debate this the most important subject in Catholicism. The first was on a forum belonging to an Fr K that I read about last weekend in the English paper Catholic Standard. I thought these sites were places where one can call a spade a spade and that censorship was applied only in extreme cases of profanity, slander and things like that. As it happened, after my second reply was logged in it never appeared and the following day the subject itself disappeared. The reason for this is that this subject (geocentricism) is the key to the crisis in Catholicism on earth, but the TRUTH of it is too HOT to be allowed debate on Fr K's site. Anyone familiar with the La Sapienza University affair? It was about geocentricism and it was so HOT that Pope Benedict XVI couldn't take the criticism so he cancelled his visit to the College, and this a pope who went to Turkey and possible suicide bombers.

So, have I logged in to another censored site or shall we talk a bit about geocentricism and what it really means, in spite of some of the ignorant clowns who think they know better than the Churchmen of sixteen centuries?

Convince us.

james o'hanlon, were did you go?

It is 12 o'clock over here in the Emerald Isle and I am off to bed now. we will begin again tomorrow. Before I go will you all answer me this. What is Catholicism? Are you Catholics or not. I can assure you this is the crux of the debate. Is catholicism a reflection of the TRUTH. Do you guys (and girls) know what TRUTH is and where it resides? If you can give me a coherent answer to these questions then I will knowe if you are WORTHY to be educated.

Good night all. Be in touch soon.

Originally posted by james o'hanlon
It is 12 o'clock over here in the Emerald Isle and I am off to bed now. we will begin again tomorrow. Before I go will you all answer me this. What is Catholicism? Are you Catholics or not. I can assure you this is the crux of the debate. Is catholicism a reflection of the TRUTH. Do you guys (and girls) know what TRUTH is and where it resides? If you can give me a coherent answer to these questions then I will knowe if you are WORTHY to be educated.

Good night all. Be in touch soon.

worthy lol. thats funny. im a solid atheist myself. (tip: loosen up a bit lol) catholocism is the origination of christianity, which follows an old guy who is elected to be the closest man on earth to "god" he can claim infallibility and get whatever he wants. the truth is what the people want it to be. if the majority says something never happened, it never did. it resides in the hearts and minds of the people.

EDIT: you'll be fine if you dont troll or trash other people. any topic is fine as long as you dont get laughed at 😄

Originally posted by james o'hanlon
It is 12 o'clock over here in the Emerald Isle and I am off to bed now. we will begin again tomorrow. Before I go will you all answer me this. What is Catholicism? Are you Catholics or not. I can assure you this is the crux of the debate. Is catholicism a reflection of the TRUTH. Do you guys (and girls) know what TRUTH is and where it resides? If you can give me a coherent answer to these questions then I will knowe if you are WORTHY to be educated.

Good night all. Be in touch soon.

Please define what you mean by TRUTH, and WORTHY, because if you are an arrogant SOB, I don't want to talk with you.

I am a Buddhist and I have a limited knowledge of what Catholicism is.

If you are going to tell me that the bible is the only truth, then please get in line. That seems to be an on going theme with some people.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Please define what you mean by TRUTH, and WORTHY, because if you are an arrogant SOB, I don't want to talk with you.

I am a Buddhist and I have a limited knowledge of what Catholicism is.

If you are going to tell me that the bible is the only truth, then please get in line. That seems to be an on going theme with some people.

yep yep. dont be an all knowing douche bag plz 😄

Couldn't sleep because I forgot to tell you that my God told me not to cast pearls to swine. Now I told you I am new at this game and do not know what all these pictures and funny faces mean. I do however share the humour I find and Chickenlover's LOCATION In your henhouse is quite funny. Anyway Chickenlover you do not qualify. It would be hard to convert you if you really are an atheist. You see there is no such thing as a 'natural atheist', there never was. It was an invention that was spawned by the heliocentric heresy. After that you guys had to invent a theory of everything and this you must defend, no matter how absurd, for if you give an inch you are gone, your ideology in pieces, a club for ignorant men and women. As a Catholic I have an answer for everything. As an Atheist you have not. Take for instance your stupid Big Bang theory. It's all you've got to get your universe going in the first place. An atom that goes bang and creates all the matter and SPACE in the universe. Oh and the usual question, the first one one could ask of any atheist: 'where did your stupid first atom come from? My God you guys are desperate. The mystery is how can any human being with an intellect believe in this stuff. We read Dawkins tripe and the FAITH that guy has in evolution would make him a saint if it was a Catholic faith. Now how can anyone debate a matter that is a MUST for atheists? What could convince you? It would go on forever. The subject under discussion here is 'Geocentric theory - Catholic Propaganda? How could an atheist possibly understand what these words actually mean? So Mr Chickenhead, cluck off to your own sites where you guys can agree with one another how a cell created itself and how this evolved into a blob of cells and how it survived without any means of eating etc until it had evolved a digestive system, a vascular system and then eyes, and then legs, or was it a tail first. God I could go on but it all insults my intelligence. Then again maybe you would indulge in a theist V atheist debate, but then wouldn't we have to move away from this site?

Now if there are any Catholics joining this once off exchange answer the questions above and then its Go. In the meantime let me ask a more relevant question. Heliocentric theory: atheist propaganda? It was Galileo who first tried the ploy that is the title of this forum. He said it was up to the Churchmen to DISPROVE heliocentrism. Now give the sensual reality IS GEOCENTRIC, then reason demands that it is up to the HELIOCENTRISTS to prove their theory contradicts what we see.

One last one. Here is what that fraud Fr Z's discussion forum did not want debated> Heliocentric theory: Churchmen's propaganda? Now think about that one while I go to sleep?

Originally posted by chickenlover98
yep yep. dont be an all knowing douche bag plz 😄

You talking to me. boy? 😆

Originally posted by james o'hanlon
Couldn't sleep because I forgot to tell you that my God told me not to cast pearls to swine. Now I told you I am new at this game and do not know what all these pictures and funny faces mean. I do however share the humour I find and Chickenlover's LOCATION In your henhouse is quite funny. Anyway Chickenlover you do not qualify. It would be hard to convert you if you really are an atheist. You see there is no such thing as a 'natural atheist', there never was. It was an invention that was spawned by the heliocentric heresy. After that you guys had to invent a theory of everything and this you must defend, no matter how absurd, for if you give an inch you are gone, your ideology in pieces, a club for ignorant men and women. As a Catholic I have an answer for everything. As an Atheist you have not. Take for instance your stupid Big Bang theory. It's all you've got to get your universe going in the first place. An atom that goes bang and creates all the matter and SPACE in the universe. Oh and the usual question, the first one one could ask of any atheist: 'where did your stupid first atom come from? My God you guys are desperate. The mystery is how can any human being with an intellect believe in this stuff. We read Dawkins tripe and the FAITH that guy has in evolution would make him a saint if it was a Catholic faith. Now how can anyone debate a matter that is a MUST for atheists? What could convince you? It would go on forever. The subject under discussion here is 'Geocentric theory - Catholic Propaganda? How could an atheist possibly understand what these words actually mean? So Mr Chickenhead, cluck off to your own sites where you guys can agree with one another how a cell created itself and how this evolved into a blob of cells and how it survived without any means of eating etc until it had evolved a digestive system, a vascular system and then eyes, and then legs, or was it a tail first. God I could go on but it all insults my intelligence. Then again maybe you would indulge in a theist V atheist debate, but then wouldn't we have to move away from this site?

Now if there are any Catholics joining this once off exchange answer the questions above and then its Go. In the meantime let me ask a more relevant question. Heliocentric theory: atheist propaganda? It was Galileo who first tried the ploy that is the title of this forum. He said it was up to the Churchmen to DISPROVE heliocentrism. Now give the sensual reality IS GEOCENTRIC, then reason demands that it is up to the HELIOCENTRISTS to prove their theory contradicts what we see.

One last one. Here is what that fraud Fr Z's discussion forum did not want debated> Heliocentric theory: Churchmen's propaganda? Now think about that one while I go to sleep?

first off **** you buddy. i have done nothing to antagonize you, and that was uncalled for. see a therapist you have to much pent up anger. second everyone is worthy of knowledge dickwad. even catholics like you 😛 (see i can be an asswipe too)

i didnt feel like being aggresive with a newcomer but you forced me to 🙁

now to my points. heliocentrism hasnt been disproved seeing as celestial bodies move towards higher gravitational fields(ie the sun) which are caused by more mass. there are many things the bible and religion cannot explain which science can. and yes i have every right to demand you prove that something is wrong. and btw you ****in executed a man for a theory.

now if you care to be civilized and learn how to debate instead of just being a dick, maybe ill grace you with a response. now if you think this is just a christian/catholic forum your gonna get proven wrong many times. not only are there a couple of buddhists there are very knowledgeable atheists(digimark07 for one) who would like to debate. please continue to insult me ill just report ur ass

EDIT:even tough i completely disagree with tim rout, follow his example, be more friggin polite

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You talking to me. boy? 😆
nope sorry, iwas just agreein with you. go back to ur jelly donuts 😄

Originally posted by james o'hanlon
Couldn't sleep because I forgot to tell you that my God told me not to cast pearls to swine. Now I told you I am new at this game and do not know what all these pictures and funny faces mean. I do however share the humour I find and Chickenlover's LOCATION In your henhouse is quite funny. Anyway Chickenlover you do not qualify. It would be hard to convert you if you really are an atheist. You see there is no such thing as a 'natural atheist', there never was. It was an invention that was spawned by the heliocentric heresy. After that you guys had to invent a theory of everything and this you must defend, no matter how absurd, for if you give an inch you are gone, your ideology in pieces, a club for ignorant men and women. As a Catholic I have an answer for everything. As an Atheist you have not. Take for instance your stupid Big Bang theory. It's all you've got to get your universe going in the first place. An atom that goes bang and creates all the matter and SPACE in the universe. Oh and the usual question, the first one one could ask of any atheist: 'where did your stupid first atom come from? My God you guys are desperate. The mystery is how can any human being with an intellect believe in this stuff. We read Dawkins tripe and the FAITH that guy has in evolution would make him a saint if it was a Catholic faith. Now how can anyone debate a matter that is a MUST for atheists? What could convince you? It would go on forever. The subject under discussion here is 'Geocentric theory - Catholic Propaganda? How could an atheist possibly understand what these words actually mean? So Mr Chickenhead, cluck off to your own sites where you guys can agree with one another how a cell created itself and how this evolved into a blob of cells and how it survived without any means of eating etc until it had evolved a digestive system, a vascular system and then eyes, and then legs, or was it a tail first. God I could go on but it all insults my intelligence. Then again maybe you would indulge in a theist V atheist debate, but then wouldn't we have to move away from this site?

Now if there are any Catholics joining this once off exchange answer the questions above and then its Go. In the meantime let me ask a more relevant question. Heliocentric theory: atheist propaganda? It was Galileo who first tried the ploy that is the title of this forum. He said it was up to the Churchmen to DISPROVE heliocentrism. Now give the sensual reality IS GEOCENTRIC, then reason demands that it is up to the HELIOCENTRISTS to prove their theory contradicts what we see.

One last one. Here is what that fraud Fr Z's discussion forum did not want debated> Heliocentric theory: Churchmen's propaganda? Now think about that one while I go to sleep?

Please provide your case. The fact that the Earth goes around the Sun has been proved for centuries. You are now trying to disprove something that is fact. Please make your case.

Originally posted by chickenlover98
nope sorry, iwas just agreein with you. go back to ur jelly donuts 😄
😆