Thanos with heart of universe vs Classic Beyonder

Originally posted by Southern_Rebel
So, you give the Beyonder the win now?

The Beyond Realm is now a part of the mainstream Marvel omniverse now, eh? If so, the TOAA..as we know him today would have power and authority over all that area. So, Thanos..with the HOTI...would encompass all that territory as well.

Thanos should win either way.

Yeah but 'today' isn't the issue. Its the Beyonder as he was pre-retcon vs. Thanos as he is post-retcon. Back then, not a lot of mention of the One Above All and the Living Tribunal was running to the Molecule Man for help, as was Eternity. Back then, the Beyond Realm was completely separate from the Marvel multiverse and it was a realm the Beyonder had complete control of. Hence even the LT, representing the entire Marvel multiverse, couldn't stop him. And the fact he could kill Death and bring her back if he chose says a lot about his power relative to Thanos. The fact the LT and all the others were asking him nicely to relent because they couldn't stop him says a lot. At least they tried with Thanos meaning they thought there was a remote chance.

The Beyonder had a child-like mentality and everytime someone got the best of him, it was because of something he did to create the situation, such as making machines Dr. Doom could use or casting out his own powers. That's equivalent to Thanos throwing away the Heart and saying, "Okay, kill me." I'm just looking at the actual power wielded by each character and what would happen if they each used it to the full potential.

Originally posted by SupremeMan
Yeah but 'today' isn't the issue. Its the Beyonder as he was pre-retcon vs. Thanos as he is post-retcon. Back then, not a lot of mention of the One Above All and the Living Tribunal was running to the Molecule Man for help, as was Eternity. Back then, the Beyond Realm was completely separate from the Marvel multiverse and it was a realm the Beyonder had complete control of. Hence even the LT, representing the entire Marvel multiverse, couldn't stop him. And the fact he could kill Death and bring her back if he chose says a lot about his power relative to Thanos. The fact the LT and all the others were asking him nicely to relent because they couldn't stop him says a lot. At least they tried with Thanos meaning they thought there was a remote chance.

The Beyonder had a child-like mentality and everytime someone got the best of him, it was because of something he did to create the situation, such as making machines Dr. Doom could use or casting out his own powers. That's equivalent to Thanos throwing away the Heart and saying, "Okay, kill me." I'm just looking at the actual power wielded by each character and what would happen if they each used it to the full potential.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The Beyonder still was temporarily usurped. Thanos called the resistance pathetic. What he did on panel to the forces gathered to stop him was BEYOND a shadow of a doubt the most impressive on panel marvel feat to date.

I don't know. I think Owen Reece opening his closet door and finding Eternity, the Living Tribunal, Odin, Chaos, Order, the Watcher, etc., waiting in their to beg his help against an opponent they couldn't beat was pretty impressive ad pretty funny and killing Death and bringing it back, two impossible feats, is pretty impressive.

Originally posted by SupremeMan
I don't know. I think Owen Reece opening his closet door and finding Eternity, the Living Tribunal, Odin, Chaos, Order, the Watcher, etc., waiting in their to beg his help against an opponent they couldn't beat was pretty impressive ad pretty funny and killing Death and bringing it back, two impossible feats, is pretty impressive.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Oh yes it is impressive. But to see Thanos call thir efforts pathetic, to destroy a Celestial, and accomplish this all with minimal effort is more impressive.

Dramatically impressive maybe. But power impressive? The Celestials had no chance at all against the Beyonder. It was clear that fighting them was just a game to him. All those beings put together had zero chance against him. It took him no effort at all.

It really is like arguing who would win: The One Above All or the Presence?

This isn't about who would really win because these are omnipotent beings from two different settings. This is about who each of us likes more.

Originally posted by SupremeMan
Dramatically impressive maybe. But power impressive? The Celestials had no chance at all against the Beyonder. It was clear that fighting them was just a game to him. All those beings put together had zero chance against him. It took him no effort at all.

It really is like arguing who would win: The One Above All or the Presence?

This isn't about who would really win because these are omnipotent beings from two different settings. This is about who each of us likes more.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I disagree as Doom was able through tech to steal the Beyonders powers.

We later learned Beyonder himself coerced Doom's existence during SS-I.
(maybe why Doom was able to take Galactus' power too)

Originally posted by Mr Master
It wasn't that simple good friend. 😛

We later learned Beyonder himself coerced Doom's existence during SS-I.
(maybe why Doom was able to take Galactus' power too)

Im not to familiar with Classic Beyonder to be honest, so forgive my ignorance.

Are you saying Beyonder planned for Doom to steal his power? Or not because if he planned it, then does that go against the main reasoning for Beyonders defeat in this thread?
Everyone knows Thanos had no weakness, does that mean Beyonder didnt either if he allowed Doom to do what he did?

Again, forgive my ignorance on the character, all i know of him is what ive read and seen you post about him before, actually!

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
[B]Im not to familiar with Classic Beyonder to be honest,
so forgive my ignorance.

That's the character I've probably studied the most,
pre to post, I have all appearances. 🙂

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Are you saying Beyonder planned for Doom to steal his power?
Or not because if he planned it,
then does that go against the main reasoning for Beyonders defeat in this thread?

But yea, that whole moment of glory for Doom was influenced by Beyonder.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Everyone knows Thanos had no weakness,
does that mean Beyonder didnt either if he allowed Doom to do what he did?

Here's the take:

Doom got stomped in one page.

Beyonder let his guard down and then Doom struck.

Meh ... not to mention he was being KEPT Alive by Beyonder during this crucial time:

Do you know why?

Because Beyonder coerced that entire event. (by accident or design)

...........................................................................

This "Doctor Doom," that was in Secret Wars the first series,

that WASN'T really Doom (well technically it was but read)

that was a Future self of Doom plucked from a point in the Timestream
that DID NOT EXIST YET, courtesy of the Beyonder.

Not only does Beyonder use a Doom from a NON-Existent Future
to fight in the Secret Wars saga,
(which now explains HOW Doom was able to Manipulate Galactus's vast technology)

but the funny thing is Doom's body was already DEAD,
he had been dead since FF #260,
when the FF, Doom and Silver Surfer took on Terrax.

...........................................................................

The insane part is,

Beyonder plucked Doom
from a Future that Beyonder himself was going to Created for Doom
FAR AFTER the Secret Wars series:

This is ALL well into the Secret Wars II series by the way.

...........................................................................

Now Beyonder sends Doom back in time to the Secret Wars drama
that was already played out,
just to re-install Doom's mind/spirit with his original body,

Beyonder speeds up that seperate event in time (Secret Wars I)
and ends up in the NOW,

with a fully revived and renewd DOOM.

Beyonder enjoyed setting up humans,
with the notion of control and power,
just to see what they would do with it...
it happened several times.

...........................................................................

Here is Doom himself, recounting the Event:

...........................................................................

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Again, forgive my ignorance on the character,
all i know of him is what ive read and seen you post about him before, actually!

Originally posted by Mr Master
But, THOTI wins in the end.

Thanks for explaining that for me, now it makes sense.

Originally posted by Mr Master
There's nothing THOTI can do, that Beyonder can't do.
But, THOTI wins in the end.

Would you say Beyonder would even put up a resistance? Or would Thanos just one shot him?

Even though Thanos has the Power-Infinite from the Almighty, if he applied all the power into one blast, could the Beyonder shield against it?

Could he perform the same feat that MM performed when Beyonder blasted him by transfering the blast outside the multi-verse? (think thats what happened)
Or would he be incinerated in one blast?

Interesting stuff 🙂

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Thanks for explaining that for me, now it makes sense.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Would you say Beyonder would even put up a resistance?
Or would Thanos just one shot him?

Even though Thanos has the Power-Infinite from the Almighty,
if he applied all the power into one blast, could the Beyonder shield against it?

Could he perform the same feat that MM performed when Beyonder blasted him by transfering the blast outside the multi-verse? (think thats what happened)
Or would he be incinerated in one blast?

Originally posted by Mr Master
The battle would imo destroy all creation,
it would last ages ... in the end, THOTI wins.
(no one is going to one shot Beyonder)

If THOTI would chose so, the battle shouldn't last longer than against LT and others.

Originally posted by Mr Master
👆

The battle would imo destroy all creation,
it would last ages ... in the end, THOTI wins.
(no one is going to one shot Beyonder)

Theoretically speaking, if they're both supreme beings of sorts, wouldnt it be an eternal stalemate?

What edge would one have over the other? I mean, literally 'how' could one beat the other?

Surely they both have infinite stamina, so one wouldnt tire before the other.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
Theoretically speaking,
if they're both supreme beings of sorts, wouldnt it be an eternal stalemate?

Therefore,
while Beyonder's Reality was many (quintillions) infinities beyond the Prime Multiverse,
(an Ocean to a drop of water)
it was not as immense as the current Omniverse,
which is = to "Countless MultiverseS" which is > than quintillions.

Therefore,
Thanos became something greater than what the Beyonder was.

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
What edge would one have over the other?

Originally posted by Unnatural-POWER
I mean, literally 'how' could one beat the other?

THOTI can go on forever,
but Beyonder's infinity has a limit,
if that makes sense. (in Marvel it does)

So while Beyonder would give THOTI the ultimate fight,
ultimately, imo, Beyonder would finally lose.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The insane part is,

Beyonder plucked Doom
from a Future that Beyonder himself was going to Created for Doom
FAR AFTER the Secret Wars series:

This is ALL well into the Secret Wars II series by the way.

...........................................................................

Now Beyonder sends Doom back in time to the Secret Wars drama
that was already played out,
just to re-install Doom's mind/spirit with his original body,

Beyonder speeds up that seperate event in time (Secret Wars I)
and ends up in the NOW,

with a fully revived and renewd DOOM.

Beyonder enjoyed setting up humans,
with the notion of control and power,
just to see what they would do with it...
it happened several times.

...........................................................................

Here is Doom himself, recounting the Event:

...........................................................................

Cool.

What comic are those from? 😱

Originally posted by Mr Master
I erroneously thought the current Marvel Omniverse had a limited amount of MultiverseS,
I thought the # was in the 100's to 1000's,
I recently learned,
Marvel's Omniverse has an infinite amount of infinite MultiverseS.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I erroneously thought the current Marvel Omniverse had a limited amount of MultiverseS,
I thought the # was in the 100's to 1000's,
I recently learned,
Marvel's Omniverse has an infinite amount of infinite MultiverseS.

Therefore,
while Beyonder's Reality was many (quintillions) infinities beyond the Prime Multiverse,
(an Ocean to a drop of water)
it was not as immense as the current Omniverse,
which is = to "Countless MultiverseS" which is > than quintillions.

Therefore,
Thanos became something greater than what the Beyonder was.

A level of infinity.

Endurance.

THOTI can go on forever,
but Beyonder's infinity has a limit,
if that makes sense. (in Marvel it does)

So while Beyonder would give THOTI the ultimate fight,
ultimately, imo, Beyonder would finally lose.

The levels of infinity thing doesnt really make sense full stop, but i understand how it works in the MU.

Strange cats over there 😛

Originally posted by quanchi112
Oh yes it is impressive. But to see Thanos call thir efforts pathetic, to destroy a Celestial, and accomplish this all with minimal effort is more impressive.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Beyonder effortlessly took out a group of Celestials with H2H....