WC Phoenix runs a mini DC gauntlet!

Pre Retcon Beyonder was introduced as one of the most powerful cosmic characters ever to appear in Marvel. But he is later retcon to being Half a Cosmic Cube. The severity of this Retcon is vary significant. More so when he losses a fight with a fellow Cube Beings “Kubic”.

Kubic admitted that Cube beings, operate on sever levels of Omnipotence lower then a Celestial. However, The Watcher admitted inferiority to the Phoenix. And her energy levels rival Galactus.

I take in mind the Cube beings statements and what was said about Phoenix. I simply conclude that the Current Beyonder can not pull of the same feat, like he did in its Pre Retcon Days.

Originally posted by id369

Pre Retcon Beyonder was introduced as one of the most powerful cosmic characters ever to appear in Marvel. But he is later retcon to being Half a Cosmic Cube. The severity of this Retcon is vary significant. More so when he losses a fight with a fellow Cube Beings “Kubic”.

Originally posted by id369

Kubic admitted that Cube beings, operate on sever levels of Omnipotence lower then a Celestial.

Originally posted by id369

However, The Watcher admitted inferiority to the Phoenix.

Originally posted by id369

And her energy levels rival Galactus.

On top of that, in that same What if, Galactus stated that with time,
he would destroy Phoenix:

Also, normal Galactus is also below Celestials.

Originally posted by id369

I take in mind the Cube beings statements
and what was said about Phoenix.

Originally posted by id369

I simply conclude that the Current Beyonder can not pull of the same feat,
like he did in its Pre Retcon Days.

Beyond this, On Panel,
POST-Retcon beyonder has perfomred Multiversal feats,
as YOU SAW Eternity and the LT reprimanding him for it.

Not only was he mucking up Reality on a MULTIVERSAL Scale ...

... but evidently AGAIN,

Beyonder is stated to encompass his OWN ENTIRE UNIVERSE,

where he is OMNIPOTENT!

....................................................................

On top of this,
YOU also saw,
that Beyoner's death would cause havok across Multiversal Cosmography.

....................................................................

This fits in well with GS's own Bio,
I mean GS posted it, so you have to accept it:

Not the LIMITED Maker,

but the REAL beyonder beneath .. the OMNIPOTENT!

....................................................................

On top of this,
YOU will now see,
when POST-Retcon Beyonder and Molecule Man battled,
they warped Reality withIN RealitieS across the Marvel Omniverse.

(TRANS-Multiversal scale) was how it was stated.

That's literally BEYOND Multiversal ...
as we know Trans- means (BEYOND) ...

"from the Quantum to the Trans-Multiversal,
Reality trembles as the forces unleashed,
reverberate through out Creation" (Omniverse)

....................................................................

swank

Originally posted by Mr Master

inconsequential concerning Cube beings.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder lost to Kubik cause he was incomplete,

In a What if.

On top of that, in that same What if, Galactus stated that with time,
he would destroy Phoenix:

Also, normal Galactus is also below Celestials.

However, who ended up destroying who in that “What If”?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder lost to Kubik cause he was incomplete,

Now it's in the proper context.

Not according to Two Official Marvel handbook bios.

Beyond this, On Panel,
POST-Retcon beyonder has perfomred Multiversal feats,
as YOU SAW Eternity and the LT reprimanding him for it.

Not only was he mucking up Reality on a MULTIVERSAL Scale ...

... but evidently AGAIN,

Beyonder is stated to encompass his OWN ENTIRE UNIVERSE,

where he is OMNIPOTENT!

....................................................................

On top of this,
YOU also saw,
that Beyoner's death would cause havok across Multiversal Cosmography.

Originally posted by id369

Character comparison, The Watcher’s and Celestials are regarded as equals.
The Watcher admitted inferiority, to the Phoenix.

You think cause you read a single statement that cemenst anything.

Anywho, I'd like to see where Watchers are regarded as equals to Celestials,
and I'd also ike to the a Watcher admitting that.

I'd like to check the context for myself,
then I'll come back and present proof that contradicts,
a Watcher comparing himself as an equal to Celestials,
and I guess we'll toss a coin to figure out who to believe.

Originally posted by id369

Oh a what if, actually I was referring to the Dark Phoenix arc.
Uncanny X-Men #135 page 08

Reed said, "that COULD rival Galactus"

While you claimed:

Originally posted by id369
And her energy levels rival Galactus.

How should a liar's rep be punished?

Originally posted by id369
However, who ended up destroying who in that “What If”?

Did you?

I know you didn't.

Galactus could've easily escape that fire traveling across the Universe,
heck, Galactus escape the Ultimate Nullifier at the last instant point blank range,
and it was fired.

Originally posted by id369

Oh my, quick question. Was that before or after Beyonder fought Kubic?

I wonder what loophole you're trying to find to spin (demean) the fact,
clearly stated by Eternity and the Living Tribunal.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Watcher has also admitted inferiority to Galactus.

You think cause you read a single statement that cemenst anything.

Anywho, I'd like to see where Watchers are regarded as equals to Celestials,
and I'd also ike to the a Watcher admitting that.

I'd like to check the context for myself,
then I'll come back and present proof that contradicts,
a Watcher comparing himself as an equal to Celestials,
and I guess we'll toss a coin to figure out who to believe.

Oh and where would you rank The Watcher?

Originally posted by Mr Master

This is presicely why I rather look at the evidence myself,
to avoid swallowing exaggerations.

Reed said, "that [B]COULD rival Galactus"

While you claimed:

You said my cred went down hill when I put a Pre-Retcon feat,
(which WAS legitimatly confirmed by Marvel in TWO separate bios 2004-2007)
as being a feat tied to Post-Retcon Beyonder.

How should a liar's rep be punished?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Really, I don't remember seeing Galactus dying.

Did you?

I know you didn't.

Galactus could've easily escape that fire traveling across the Universe,
heck, Galactus escape the Ultimate Nullifier at the last instant point blank range,
and it was fired.

Originally posted by Mr Master
[B]

After.

I wonder what loophole you're trying to find to spin (demean) the fact,
clearly stated by Eternity and the Living Tribunal.

No lope hole, you see I just want to know the chronology of the events and possibly from what issues. But I am still not accepting its Pre Retcon feat. And the fact still remains, that Galactus placed more importance on the Primordial Gods, over the Beyonder essence (not necessarily Maker itself.)

Originally posted by id369
Oh and where would you rank The Watcher?

I'm just too tired to even type anymore, my eyes are literally burning.

I'll pich this up tomorrow.

Originally posted by id369

Ah I see I stand corrected.

A hungry Phoenix, not tapping into its near limitless energy source could rival Galactus.

Originally posted by id369

Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t.

Originally posted by id369

No lope hole, you see I just want to know the chronology of the events and possibly from what issues. But I am still not accepting its Pre Retcon feat. And the fact still remains, that Galactus placed more importance on the Primordial Gods, over the Beyonder essence (not necessarily Maker itself.)

But I disagree on the Beyonder's essence part,
the Maker was what was pointed out,
and the Maker simply isn't the real Beyonder's power-set, not even close.

We'll pick up tomorrow, I'm about to faint.

Before you go to sleep. Keep in mind this.
Marvel cant keep track on the continuality in a single comic, let alone the entire Marvel Mythos. We as hardcore readers, do and routinely bring them up. We are naturally debating plot holes and inconsistencies that Marvel fails to address. And when Marvel decides to address these plot holes, it makes no sense. And worse of all, we are trying to make sense, out of Marvel’s mess.

If Kubic did not state he was inferior my views and ranking over Cube beings would greatly differ.

Lastly I completely disagree in different levels of Omnipotence, in fact I disagree on how marvel categorizes Omnipotence period. Yes there are different levels of infinity, but Omnipotence goes beyond a systematic numerical order. Addressing it in such a form, leaves me wondering if I should stop reading Marvel all together (when it comes to cosmic events).

With that said, I don’t think I want to continue anymore in this debate. Nothing more then circular logic is sure to surface.

Back on topic: I reaffirm my stance she stops at 5, though 4 could give her trouble.

There aren't several level to omnipotence. Saying so is just fancy speach, you either have ALL POWER or you don't.

Meh, more hyping up hyperbole here.

that doesn't work
there are plenty of omnipotent beings in fiction but they only rule a universe
so what do we say about the omnipotents in other fiction who reign over multiple universes ?
they are more omnipotent

Originally posted by 123KID
that doesn't work
there are plenty of omnipotent beings in fiction but they only rule a universe
so what do we say about the omnipotents in other fiction who reign over multiple universes ?
they are more omnipotent

You can't have "more omnipotence". You either are, or you are not. If it isn't ALL it isn't omni.

Infinity plus one is still infinity. infinity times two is also still infinity. If it isn't infinity, it isn't infinity.

The ones who rule one universe and can't rule multiple are NOT omnipotent. Saying they are is misusing the term.

that doesn't work because many a fictional creation doesn't HAVE more than one universe
they are omnipotent in the work where one universe is everything
so how do we judge them against beings who are in works with more than one universe ?
just because some other fictional creation has more universes it doesn't make the universal omnipotent any less omnipotent
he's just a lower omnipotent

Originally posted by 123KID
that doesn't work because many a fictional creation doesn't HAVE more than one universe
they are omnipotent in the work where one universe is everything
so how do we judge them against beings who are in works with more than one universe ?
just because some other fictional creation has more universes it doesn't make the universal omnipotent any less omnipotent
he's just a lower omnipotent

If it aint all it aint omni.

Originally posted by Creshosk

You can't have "more omnipotence". You either are, or you are not. If it isn't ALL it isn't omni.

Infinity plus one is still infinity. infinity times two is also still infinity.

If it isn't infinity, it isn't infinity.

..........................................................................................

Marvel's claim of levels of Infinity wasn't made up by Marvel,
it's actually based on a real theorem from the real world created by Georg Cantor.

This theorem has been widely accepted as a legitimate theorem since 1891:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor%27s_theorem

Cantor's Theorem:

"The theorem is named for Georg Cantor, who first stated and proved it."

..........................................................................................

Now,
no matter what logic you try to bring up to counter this, is inconsequential,
because it'd be like trying to challenge the theorem of Calculus.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I responded before to cats who doubted "levels of Infinity" in Marvel:

..........................................................................................

Marvel's claim of levels of Infinity wasn't made up by Marvel,
it's actually based on a real theorem from the real world created by Georg Cantor.

This theorem has been widely accepted as a legitimate theorem since 1891:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor%27s_theorem

Cantor's Theorem:

"The theorem is named for Georg Cantor, who first stated [B]and proved it."

..........................................................................................

Now,
no matter what logic you try to bring up to counter this, is inconsequential,
because it'd be like trying to challenge the theorem of Calculus. [/B]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infinity

a: the quality of being infinite b: unlimited extent of time, space, or quantity : boundlessness

If its limited its not unlimited. If its not unlimited it doesn't meet the definition of infinite or infinity. People misuing terms is all the evidence you ever seem to have eh Mr. Master?

Originally posted by Creshosk

Irrelivent. There is not multiple levels of infinity.

If its limited its not unlimited. If its not unlimited it doesn't meet the definition of infinite or infinity.

..........................................................................................

Marvel's claim of levels of Infinity wasn't made up by Marvel,
it's actually based on a real theorem from the real world created by Georg Cantor.

This theorem has been widely accepted as a legitimate theorem since 1891:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor%27s_theorem

Cantor's Theorem:

"The theorem is named for Georg Cantor, who first stated and proved it."

..........................................................................................

Now,
no matter what logic you try to bring up to counter this, is inconsequential,
because it'd be like trying to challenge the theorem of Calculus.

Originally posted by Creshosk

People misuing terms is all the evidence you ever seem to have eh Mr. Master?

😆

Do your thing, but swallow this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor%27s_theorem

"The theorem is named for Georg Cantor, who first stated and proved it."

LEVELS of INFINITY ... literally PROVEN! ... in the REAL WORLD folks!

No, there is not multiple levels of omnipotence. Omnipotent means "All Power" If he doesn't have all power he is not omnipotent. I don't care if you don't think it works. That's just the way things are. You can call a rose a hippopotomus, but its still going to be a rose.

If it aint all it aint omni.

except you are missing the point again
they are all powerful
bit when you take them out of their creation they aren't all powerful because other works have more than a single universe

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nah dogs, Your post is irrelevant, Big time on this one!

..........................................................................................

Marvel's claim of levels of Infinity wasn't made up by Marvel,
it's actually based on a real theorem from the real world created by Georg Cantor.

This theorem has been widely accepted as a legitimate theorem since 1891:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor%27s_theorem

Cantor's Theorem:

"The theorem is named for Georg Cantor, who first stated [B]and proved it."

..........................................................................................

Now,
no matter what logic you try to bring up to counter this, is inconsequential,
because it'd be like trying to challenge the theorem of Calculus.

You must be under the impression that I'm affected by these fallacious cheap shots.

😆

Do your thing, but swallow this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor%27s_theorem

"The theorem is named for Georg Cantor, who first stated and proved it."

LEVELS of INFINITY ... literally PROVEN! ... in the REAL WORLD folks! [/B]

Again people misusing terms is irrleivent to the conversation.

Originally posted by 123KID
except you are missing the point again
they [B]are all powerful
bit when you take them out of their creation they aren't all powerful because other works have more than a single universe [/B]

Get it yet? OR do I have to start speaking in simpler terms for you?

Originally posted by Creshosk

And I suppose Jubilee is the most powerful mutant Emma frost has ever met? Don't beleive me? I'm just using the same source you are.. wikipedia.

Again people misusing terms is irrleivent to the conversation.

Georg Cantor was a REAL Human being that PROVED the concept of levels of infinity.

I can get you 10 links right now, (Non-wiki)
or I can refer you to published books (Not comics) about the man.

Whatever you prefer.

.............................................................................................

Here are 10 Books published about Georg Cantor, written by serious authors:

.............................................................................................

J W Dauben, Georg Cantor: His Mathematics and Philosophy of the Infinite (Cambridge, Mass, 1979; reprinted 1990).

P E Johnson, A history of set theory (Boston, Mass., 1972).

A Kertesz, Georg Cantor, 1845-1918 : Schöpfer der Mengenlehre, Acta historica leopoldina 15 (1983).

H Meschkowski, Georg Cantor : Leben, Werk und Wirkung (Mannheim, 1983).

E Noether and J Cavaillès (eds.), Briefweschsel Cantor-Dedekind (Paris, 1937).

W Purkert and H J Ilgauds, Georg Cantor (Leipzig, 1985).

W Purkert and H J Ilgauds, Georg Cantor 1845-1918 (Basel, 1987).

K Richter, Cantor, in H Wussing and W Arnold, Biographien bedeutender Mathematiker (Berlin, 1983).

A Schoenflies, Georg Cantor (Magdeburg, 1928).

D Stander, Makers of modern mathematics : Georg Cantor (1989).

.............................................................................................

You're more than welcome to review them for yourself,
also, I can get you referrences to all the books published by these authors,
that way you won't make the mistake of comparing them to comic books writers again.

There are no 'diferent levels of infinity'. There are only cases where one infinity is contained within another.

I'm going to use this example which I've already used when this 'different levels of infinity' showed up in another thread :

Say character A has infinite control over Electromagnetism and character B infinite control over Gravity.

Then Character C is introduced who has infinite control over all the four Fundamental Forces.

Is character C more powerfull than either character A or B ? Yes. Why ? Because his infinite area of control already includes infinite control over Electromagnetism and Gravity.

Infinite control over the four fundamental forces = Infinite control over Electromagnetism, Infinite control over Gravity, Infinite control over the Strong-nuclear force and Infinite control over the Weak-nuclear force.

The same goes when talking about numbers.

For example Real numbers contain both Natural Numbers and Integers, despite the fact that both Natural Numbers and Integers are infinite.

But when talking Omnipotence, it's different. Omnipotence implies control over everything there is. You can't be Omnipotent and contain only a certain area. When you are Omnipotent you are 'all encompassing'.

With that said, I've got to take some sleep. See you later.