Originally posted by Damborgson
He was fine with tearing arms and legs off as long as he knew they wouldn't die. And Wolverine likely wouldn't.
And so he put Wolverine away as quickly as possible. it's not like they were strangers. Seeing what we saw in HOTM makes it pretty clear that he didn't have to go through any of the stuff that he did. He could have simply destroyed the Earth and been done with it. Am I correct?
The "Hulk not trying" argument is garbage. It is basically a safety switch that the writers use so, in the future, they can always one-up his previous feats, instead of writing decent stories.
It is a cheap ploy that is used to try and appease 2 groups:
1. Intelligent Readers who look for ANY continuity they can find in a Hulk comic and do not expect Hulk to have the ability to defeat all foes, or break all natural laws.
and
2. Hulk Fanboys who actually EXPECT and DEMAND Hulk to defeat all foes and break all natural laws in ALL of his comics.
So, in the ONLY effort ever made to follow Marvel continuity and not dash all other characters against the rock that is the Hulk, other characters are sometimes not defeated by Hulk.
But, almost always, with the escape clause, way down in the fine print, that reads: "Hulk wasn't really trying." 😆
Personally, I call "BS" on that. I say that he ALWAYS tries. I say that Thor was using a ruse when he said he couldn't beat Hulk, then zapped his unconscious green a$$ into outer space. And, he was able to do this because he is more intelligent than Hulk.
Yes, he was unconscious. Do you know why I know? Because, if he had such control, as has been stated over and over, and had the ability to shrug off the attack AND move himself wherever he wanted to go- He would never have been BFR'd against his will. Unless he was unconscious.
Thor for the win.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ok...So he's capable of breaking arms and legs, without killing people.
But, with Wolverine, the only way to snap his bones (even relatively small ones, like wrist bones or collar bones) necessitates Wolverine killing force?
That actually seems fair - a testament to adamantium's strength.
But at the same time we do not know if the adamantium that Nul ripped apart was made of the cheap more common stuff. Right?
I have an idea. let's shift the burden of proof onto Thor, and his recent performances. Was Thor going all out in his battle with Tutianx? Was he trying to lose? Was he able or unable to unleash his best against the Deviant, or was it that he simply wasn't given enough time or room to operate in order to unleash the exotic stuff? Once we figure this out, and allow the Hulk to act as anything other than a static punching bag, would it be possible that he might be able to defeat Thor? Is it possible that if he went at Thor the way he went at Betty in the Dark Dimension, that he might be able to do even better against Thor than Tutinax did? You tell me.
Originally posted by Horrificus
The "Hulk not trying" argument is garbage. It is basically a safety switch that the writers use so, in the future, they can always one-up his previous feats, instead of writing decent stories.It is a cheap ploy that is used to try and appease 2 groups:
1. Intelligent Readers who look for ANY continuity they can find in a Hulk comic and do not expect Hulk to have the ability to defeat all foes, or break all natural laws.
and
2. Hulk Fanboys who actually EXPECT and DEMAND Hulk to defeat all foes and break all natural laws in ALL of his comics.
So, in the ONLY effort ever made to follow Marvel continuity and not dash all other characters against the rock that is the Hulk, other characters are sometimes not defeated by Hulk.
But, almost always, with the escape clause, way down in the fine print, that reads: "Hulk wasn't really trying." 😆
Personally, I call "BS" on that. I say that he ALWAYS tries. I say that Thor was using a ruse when he said he couldn't beat Hulk, then zapped his unconscious green a$$ into outer space. And, he was able to do this because he is more intelligent than Hulk.
Yes, he was unconscious. Do you know why I know? Because, if he had such control, as has been stated over and over, and had the ability to shrug off the attack AND move himself wherever he wanted to go- He would never have been BFR'd against his will. Unless he was unconscious.
Thor for the win.
So in you're opinion was the Hulk trying to kill the X-Men, or was he trying to get to Xavier, and bring him back to NYC? What's it going to be? Opinion or context?
Thor is more inteliigent than Banner? That's news to me. You forgot to add number 3. The people who see, and read the things that the Hulk does, but continue to attempt to find a poor showing in it. or just flat out low ball the shit out of him, even going against what was written.
Originally posted by Stoic
But at the same time we do not know if the adamantium that Nul ripped apart was made of the cheap more common stuff. Right?
Absolutely right, which is why I asked carver several times what he thought it was - primary or secondary. He is of the opinion that it was primary, so once we established that, then, and only then, did I embark on this journey of discovery lol.
I have an idea. let's shift the burden of proof onto Thor, and his recent performances. Was Thor going all out in his battle with Tutianx? Was he trying to lose? Was he able or unable to unleash his best against the Deviant, or was it that he simply wasn't given enough time or room to operate in order to unleash the exotic stuff? Once we figure this out, and allow the Hulk to act as anything other than a static punching bag, would it be possible that he might be able to defeat Thor? Is it possible that if he went at Thor the way he went at Betty in the Dark Dimension, that he might be able to do even better against Thor than Tutinax did? You tell me. [/B]
Uh-oh. We're going back into WWH = WBH territory again lol.
Originally posted by Stoic
So in you're opinion was the Hulk trying to kill the X-Men, or was he trying to get to Xavier, and bring him back to NYC? What's it going to be? Opinion or context?Thor is more inteliigent than Banner? That's news to me. You forgot to add number 3. The people who see, and read the things that the Hulk does, but continue to attempt to find a poor showing in it. or just flat out low ball the shit out of him, even going against what was written.
Not kill - disable. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this point - I don't think breaking Logan's legs = killing him, or snapping his claws off, or even just crushing his hands like he did against Strange.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Absolutely right, which is why I asked carver several times what he thought it was - primary or secondary. He is of the opinion that it was primary, so once we established that, then, and only then, did I embark on this journey of discovery lol.
Uh-oh. We're going back into WWH = WBH territory again lol. [/B]
Uh Oh they are the same character. You separating them is like separating a Porche in 2nd gear from the same Porche in 6th. Not cool dude, not cool at all. Did he change shape when he went world breaker? Did he say or appear to be another entity when he went world breaker, or was he simply allowing himself to rip shit up?
Originally posted by Stoic
Uh Oh they are the same character. You separating them is like separating a Porche in 2nd gear from the same Porche in 6th. Not cool dude, not cool at all. Did he change shape when he went world breaker? Did he say or appear to be another entity when he went world breaker, or was he simply allowing himself to rip shit up?
So what are we all arguing about lol. WWH=WBH=The hulk that picked up the hammer!
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not kill - disable. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this point - I don't think breaking Logan's legs = killing him, or snapping his claws off, or even just crushing his hands like he did against Strange.
You're point is to ascertain whether the Hulk was as powerful as Nul, and the yard stick being adamantium correct? Well as I said, it was never said what type of adamantium it was that Nul ripped through, although we know that the Hulk at a lesser power range was able to severely warp the substance during the Secret Wars. Correct?
You know that Banner is one of the smartest characters on Marvel Earth, so with this knowledge, and the knowledge of how much he cares for life. Why in the world would he want to cripple Wolverine? Logan had nothing to do with his exile, or Caiera's death. Why in the world would he ever want to cripple or kill him? He would know that if he warped Logan's bones that have a thin layer of adamantium laced to them that it would be nearly impossible to undo. I'm just asking you to take his character into consideration based on solid context, not his ability to grow strong enough to warp less adamantium than a weaker incarnation of himself did to a thicker layer of the substance.
Unless you believe that the amount and thickness of adamantium laced to Wolverine's bones, is stronger than the amount within Ultron's chest cavity. Come on man just think about it.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So what are we all arguing about lol. WWH=WBH=The hulk that picked up the hammer!
He is the same character. Titles are titles, but he is still the Hulk. The only difference between him and Merged hulk was his ability to channel his anger, or control the amount of adrenaline to allow himself to become stronger than he has ever been depicted. This was all written over the past few years.
Are you willing to shift the burden of proof onto Thor while at the same time allowing the Hulk to operate on a level that he isn't standing there saying to Thor, "Take your best exotic shot"? Can he fight the way Tutinax fought Thor? Can he fight the way the guys of the Zodiac recently fought Thor without Thor appearing to be fighting like a retard? Many people forget that Thor is unable to pull off many of his exotic power moves if his opponent is all in his grill. Should the Hulk in a forum match fight with any less ferocity?
Originally posted by Stoic
Well I would think that a foot of adamantium would be harder to warp than a centimeter. What do you think? Does this make sense?
It does make sense - so the thick adamantium net, for example, should be MUCH harder to break than the coating on Logan's bones. Assuming of course they are both of the same adamantium.
But then of course, this is a comic book material we are talking about. Logic dictates yes, a thick net should be harder to snap, and that Hulk was amped by the hammers, but sometimes......sometimes, we just spin kick logic in the face.
Originally posted by StoicWell, I wasn't really taking a stand on either side yet. But, I was pointing out how events are being viewed and used.
So in you're opinion was the Hulk trying to kill the X-Men, or was he trying to get to Xavier, and bring him back to NYC? What's it going to be? Opinion or context?Thor is more inteliigent than Banner? That's news to me. You forgot to add number 3. The people who see, and read the things that the Hulk does, but continue to attempt to find a poor showing in it. or just flat out low ball the shit out of him, even going against what was written.
I think he was trying to bring back the prof. But, I don't think that should be used as ammo to explain poor strategy or ineffective combat technique.
I think that Hulk threads usually suck because intent and context are CONSTANTLY used to override on-panel depiction.
And, my point is, that it is actually the fault of the writers, not the forum members. We all use the materials we are able to dig up. But, I think it fogs the vision when EVERY poor showing or lack of feats can be explained away with, "Hulk was not trying", or people try to make it seem as if Hulk is a good guy and he is taking it easy on another character any time he doesn't perform a decisive victory.
Thor tricked the Hulk with that ruse. And, it was easily done.
How can the Hulk even BE low-balled anymore? At this point, there really isn't anymore impossible things for the character to do.
I am just choosing to stick to what I see in the book, instead of coming up with reasons why this didn't happen, or that did happen.