Lucifer vs *insert Marvel character*

Originally posted by llagrok
No one in Marvel should be capable of beating Lucifer, bar TOAA

I can't speculate on what Lucy can/ or can't do, it's really inconsequential to me,
but there are several beings in Marvel that will not lose to Lucy.

Beings that can do anything across all of Marvel's creation.
I don't see what level beyond that there is,
except for the "Avatars" representing those who actually create the comics.

Btw. (food for thought)

In Marvel ... Cosmics are above divine powers.

Marvel's Lucifer Morningstar gets challenged by Ghostrider.

We are talking about Vertigo's Lucifer not Marvel's. and Lucifer is above concepts in Vertigo. I mean his mind is the mind that formed them in the first place.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I'll have to disagree with that good friend.

I can't speculate on what Lucy can/ or can't do, it's really inconsequential to me,
but there are several beings in Marvel that will not lose to Lucy.

Beings that can do anything across all of Marvel's creation.
I don't see what level beyond trhat there is,
except for the "Avatars" representing those who actually create the comics.

Btw. (food for thought)

In Marvel ... Cosmics are above divine powers.

Marvel's Lucifer Morningstar gets challenged by Ghostrider.

I suppose they would end up in a stalemate then?

Originally posted by Superherovandal
The thing is by following it he shows that he was manipulated by God. Because God knew he would do that. That was his ultimate plan for Thanos. God's ultimate plan for Lucifer was him merging with God. Lucifer could have done that. See when God has an ultimate fate it happens. Even if you think you could chose. What he knows will happen will happen. However, Lucifer's will enables him to go against God's Plan for him. which he finally does in the end of Lucifer the series. GOd is omniprescent for a reason.

If my teacher tells me 5+5 is 10 and I put 11, that doesn't mean I have strong will, it just means I'm stupid.

I see what you're saying, but it doesn't really apply to the situation with Thanos, TOAA may have known Thanos would follow his plan because he knew Thanos would do the smart thing, that doesn't mean Thanos has less will than Lucifer.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
The thing is by following it he shows that he was manipulated by God.
Because God knew he would do that.
That was his ultimate plan for Thanos.
God's ultimate plan for Lucifer was him merging with God. Lucifer could have done that.
See when God has an ultimate fate it happens. Even if you think you could chose.

Thanos chose to take the Heart,
Thanos chose to erase all of Time/Space in Marvel,
Thanos chose to re-create Marvel.

He was never forced to do anything,
he had free-will through out the entire story.

Thanos chose what the Toaa wanted, because otherwise,
he would've ruled over a Void:

Who wants to rule over nothing?

Originally posted by Superherovandal
What he knows will happen will happen.
However, Lucifer's will enables him to go against God's Plan for him.
which he finally does in the end of Lucifer the series.

Thanos's decision concerned ALL of Marvel,
not his personal gratification of merging/ or not with "god"

I suppose it all rests upon whether or not we believe Thanos actually made the choice or if it was already made for him.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I have to disagree friend.

Thanos chose to take the Heart,
Thanos chose to erase all of Time/Space in Marvel,
Thanos chose to re-create Marvel.

He was never forced to do anything,
he had free-will through out the entire story.

Thanos chose what the Toaa wanted, because otherwise,
he would've ruled over a Void:

Who wants to rule over nothing?

Lucy's decision wasn't anywhere near as grave as Thanos'.

Thanos's decision concerned ALL of Marvel,
not his personal gratification of merging/ or not with "god"

you don't understand what I mean. God is omniscient right? So he/she will know exactly what you'll do no matter what right? He knew Thanos would do everything that he did. Yahweh didn't with Lucifer because Lucifer having the Will Of Yahweh enables him to actually go against what God Sees. Which is what he does. TOAA knew THanos would do what he did. Yahweh didn't know that Lucifer would reject him. He had an actual choice In comics they have the "choice" but they don't because TOAA knows what will happen regardless. See?

Originally posted by llagrok
I suppose it all rests upon whether or not we believe Thanos actually made the choice or if it was already made for him.

He was chosen because only his Will was strong enough to contain Toaa/god's power.

He was tricked, because fixing the "flaw" had only one remedy,
even for he who contains the power of Toaa/god.

How do we know Yahweh didn't know what Lucifer would do?

Originally posted by Mindset
How do we know Yahweh didn't know what Lucifer would do?

So that's how we know Yahweh didn't know Lucifer would defy him...?

Originally posted by Superherovandal
you don't understand what I mean. God is omniscient right? So he/she will know exactly what you'll do no matter what right? He knew Thanos would do everything that he did. Yahweh didn't with Lucifer because Lucifer having the Will Of Yahweh enables him to actually go against what God Sees. Which is what he does. TOAA knew THanos would do what he did. Yahweh didn't know that Lucifer would reject him. He had an actual choice In comics they have the "choice" but they don't because TOAA knows what will happen regardless. See?

So I disagree with your comparison of these companies (Marvel/DC)
if the Presence is limited by Lucy, that's DC's problem.

Concerning Lucy's existence I know next to nothing.

But Thanos was chosen because only his "will" (in all of Marvel)
was capable of containing Toaa/god's power.

Then again, like I said, the bottomline is,
Thanos' free will, along with Thanos/THOTI/the Omniverse itself
is just drawings and words on a piece of paper to Toaa/god. (not limited by anyone)
................................................................................

Btw,

Thanos did in fact go against one aspect of Toaa/god's plan:

I forgot about that, there you go ... same thing lucy did apparently.

(even speaking withIn comics) 🙂

How is that against God's will???For all you know God wanted him to do that. and anyways its not true as heroes have most certainly been ressurected since then. THat just proves that THOTU isn't all mighty. also Lucifer from the Vertigo comics isn't in DCU. Vertigo is separate from DC.

Edit. double post

Originally posted by Superherovandal
How is that against God's will???For all you know God wanted him to do that.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
and anyways its not true as heroes have most certainly been ressurected since then.
THat just proves that THOTU isn't all mighty.

Originally posted by Mr Master
So where's the statement on panel
that suggests the Presence was ignorant about Lucy's decision.

😆

Originally posted by Superherovandal
Yahweh and Presence are different.

No what I'm saying is he didn't know what Lucy would do
because he has will equal to God

He does know what anyone else would do.

Actually what is it you're claiming?

That Lucy defied Yah or the Pres?

Also where is it stated that either of them was ignorant about Lucy's decision.

I also wanna see where it's stated that Lucy is the embodiment of either's will.
(I believe the Michael respect thread proves that Lucy has his own separate individual will)

Originally posted by Mr Master
I understand that,
but in order for me to consider that a fact,
show me the proof.

Actually what is it you're claiming?

That Lucy defied Yah or the Pres?

Also where is it stated that either of them was ignorant about Lucy's decision.

I also wanna see where it's stated that Lucy is the embodiment of either's will.
(I believe the Michael respect thread proves that Lucy has his own separate individual will)

I think the issue its in is the last one of the series.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
no did you not listen to what I said. Even though Vertigo and DC are similar they are two separate entities. Yahweh and Presence are different.No what I'm saying is he didn't know what Lucy would do because he has will equal to God.. He does know what anyone else would do.

YHWH = The Presence, they are the same. He has will equal to God yes but God can erase him like nothing, for Lucifer is a created being while God was not, he is infinite, eternal. He knows what Luci will do, the only way Lucifer got out of the great plan was for him to leave at that point in time when God left and he left to chance some randomness to the plan and Lucifer took advantage of it and left. Lucifer even says he don't know why God gave him the letter of passage to leave, but 'He' already knows why he gave it to him, which perplexed even Lucifer.