"The Celestials are among the most powerful physical entities in the universe. The highly evolved Cosmic Cube beings Kosmos and Kubik – beings who wield nearly incalculable energy, matter and reality manipulation powers – stated that a single Celestial possesses "power many orders of magnitude beyond our own"."
Yeah...
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. "This is when one person corrupts an opponent's argument into something different, a "straw man" that they set up just to knock it down."You are corrupting my argument to refute it, hence a strawman. Although honestly, your argument does share similarities with a Red Herring. Hell, I did not even mention Pyron using powers in his full size, but you brought it up without making a single argument for Highfather, which is also technically a Red Herring.
In other words, you fail.
2. I assume nothing. You say that Pyron could have a charge time. I don't have to prove he does not, you have to prove he does, the burden of proof, is on you. Not me. I don't have to prove the negative, you have to prove the positive which YOU claimed. And you cannot prove it, Pyron moved like an inch in the scan, then we see him as a star in the distance. Should we assume he has this super slow acceleration based off that? How about no? As a matter of fact, you cannot prove he really started moving in his destination at all, he clearly changed directing before flying off in the distance, as you can see here, the "star" in the distance that is Pyron and Pyron near Earth are in the same spot on the scan, only Pyron is not really visible when he flew away, he is a star. And my argument was never really that he did not have to build momentum, only that you have insufficient evidence to claim he has slow accelleration, which you are implying he does. He could start at 10% of lightspeed when he starts moving, he would still by feats be tremendously faster than the Pantheon.
http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=58699226qn7.jpg
And you are nit-picking, Pyron can based on feats crush the Pantheon with his bare hands, he does not need his other powers, you have not provided a THING in the Pantheon's defense.
Strawman again. You suck at this, debating I mean. Pyron has both of the key traits of Cosmic Awareness, I have proven he has them before, and yet he does not? Really? Lol. The every angle part is an overestimation I admit, though logical, considering Pyron does not actually have eyes so his vision would not be limited to them.
Yeah, you do, you have to prove things when you claim them, character does not matter. You claim that Pyron has to build some ungodly amount of momentum before reaching top speed, hence, burden of proof is on you. You claim that eating a planet has a charge time, hence, burden of proof is on you. My character or not, the burden of proof is not on me to prove YOUR claims, maybe you should learn the basic rules of debating first. If a republican claims that Barack Obama is a Muslim while debating a democrat, by your logic the democrat would have to prove he is not, but that is fallacious. The Republican has to prove he is.
And I know what the fallacies are, those were their correct usages.
3. You would be correct if it only said he took a human form, but it then says he did so to fight by Earth's rules, a clear implication he had to lessen himself to fight the Darkstalkers fairly. You always do this, cut my argument in half and nit-pick what you can debate, and ignore what you cannot.
I'll concede this since I really could not care about this argument, the sun thing, considering to my knowledge they have not done that either.
1. Its not corrupted into something diffrent, its not really corrupted it at all, its just a good way of turning the tables and characters around so that your foolishness is better to realise rather than me simply claiming your BS has gone far enough and waiting for proof of Pyron actually doing these things. Its exactley the same, your moaning about highfather not doing something yet at the same time, claiming Pyron can under the same things your calling me out for.
So in other words, you fail.
2. No, your assuming Pyrons attack is instant or fast?.....if your not then stop trying to debate it being useful in this argument or battle at all. I dont have to prove anything, theres no logic or reasoning to the contary, its like trying to prove the sky is blue just because someone disagrees. False, Pyron moves forwards a little, in the next scan he moves perhaps a few hundred miles, then he is further in the distance and is likely hitting his lightspeed. Then again he may simply be on the edge of the readers view and due to his colour and shape looks like a star in the distance....once again, you cannot assume and your argument falls flat on its ass like they usually do, unless ofc Team rocket in pokemon becoming a star in the distance when they are blasted into the air is them hitting lightspeed and travelling across the galaxy! dur
And by the evidence, he moves at about 1000-2000mph perhaps in his startup, since hes so large the distance he covers between the first then second scans is pretty impossible to determine, but he doesnt go far, the next scan shows him in the distance, how far in the distance is unkown...another unkown...
The pantheon can teleport away from such an assault and no, he cant, Panthen are at least large enough to impale planets with their weapons (youve seen the image of Sarg with his sword in a planet), Pyron is not much bigger than a planet from what ive seen.
I suck yet ive crushed your every baseless argument, technically Ive won before the argument even began, youve got no real basis other than your opinion on scans and info and a touch of fanboyism, not actual facts 🙄 and furthermore you just admited you were probably wrong? lmao...your pathetic..really..ime not going to say you suck at debating, becaue this isnt debating, its like telling a Todler his wrong and him stamping his feet...
Ive proven it already, he has momentum, otherwise he would be in the distance in once scan....not actually made any progress...
I claim it could have a charge time and that your absolutley wrong for thinking otherwise.
wrong.
3. lmao, show me where I "always" do this, its nothing to do with what i can debate, I can debate anthing you vomit with ease, its more along the lines of, i debate whats an actually an argument. And define Earths rules, I mean he was human form, rule number one, its not part of Earths rules to shield himself and toss mini suns, your talking a lot of BS, youve got nothing backing you.
Originally posted by Burning thought1. I said you were making a completely baseless assumption and stating that Highfather could be stronger than Pyron. Which you were. Then you took my argument, and twisted it, bringing up a completely unrelated point, as if you refuted the point I just made, when in actuality you dodged the point completely. I'm not putting up with your bullshit anymore, you either prove your Goddamn claims, stfu and concede, or continue to make repetive BS posts and be immortalized as the most pitiful fallacious debater here. It's not exactly the same, I have logical reasoning behind my points, based on his size and the fact that he wears them as rings, of course Pyron can crush a planet. You have absolutely no evidence at all that Highfather is stronger than Pyron, other than he "could be." Well, Pyron COULD BE a galactic being who has devoured galaxies and can destroy the Milky Way with a single thought, but I could never prove it, hence why I never claim it. Because I am a logical thinker. You, are a speculative thinker, you base your arguments on assumptions, speculation, twisting of the opponent's words, and downright hypocrisy in order to "bully" the opponent out of the debate when they no longer want to deal with your ignorant BS. You yourself have made the claim when debating FOR Pyron that he can destroy planets with his bare hands...But when Pyron is the opposition's character, all of the sudden he can't! 😱 It's called a contradiction, and only cements you as a biased hypocrite.
1. Its not corrupted into something [b]diffrent, its not really corrupted it at all, its just a good way of turning the tables and characters around so that your foolishness is better to realise rather than me simply claiming your BS has gone far enough and waiting for proof of Pyron actually doing these things. Its exactley the same, your moaning about highfather not doing something yet at the same time, claiming Pyron can under the same things your calling me out for.So in other words, you fail.
2. No, your assuming Pyrons attack is instant or fast?.....if your not then stop trying to debate it being useful in this argument or battle at all. I dont have to prove anything, theres no logic or reasoning to the contary, its like trying to prove the sky is blue just because someone disagrees. False, Pyron moves forwards a little, in the next scan he moves perhaps a few hundred miles, then he is further in the distance and is likely hitting his lightspeed. Then again he may simply be on the edge of the readers view and due to his colour and shape looks like a star in the distance....once again, you cannot assume and your argument falls flat on its ass like they usually do, unless ofc Team rocket in pokemon becoming a star in the distance when they are blasted into the air is them hitting lightspeed and travelling across the galaxy! dur
And by the evidence, he moves at about 1000-2000mph perhaps in his startup, since hes so large the distance he covers between the first then second scans is pretty impossible to determine, but he doesnt go far, the next scan shows him in the distance, how far in the distance is unkown...another unkown...
The pantheon can teleport away from such an assault and no, he cant, Panthen are at least large enough to impale planets with their weapons (youve seen the image of Sarg with his sword in a planet), Pyron is not much bigger than a planet from what ive seen.
I suck yet ive crushed your every baseless argument, technically Ive won before the argument even began, youve got no real basis other than your opinion on scans and info and a touch of fanboyism, not actual facts 🙄 and furthermore you just admited you were probably wrong? lmao...your pathetic..really..ime not going to say you suck at debating, becaue this isnt debating, its like telling a Todler his wrong and him stamping his feet...
Ive proven it already, he has momentum, otherwise he would be in the distance in once scan....not actually made any progress...
I claim it could have a charge time and that your absolutley wrong for thinking otherwise.
wrong.
3. lmao, show me where I "always" do this, its nothing to do with what i can debate, I can debate anthing you vomit with ease, its more along the lines of, i debate whats an actually an argument. And define Earths rules, I mean he was human form, rule number one, its not part of Earths rules to shield himself and toss mini suns, your talking a lot of BS, youve got nothing backing you. [/B]
2. I made the claim that Pyron can eat planets. Then, to counter that, you state it has an "unknown charge time." I ask you to prove it has a charge time because he has never shown an indication in any fiction involving Pyron of needing one, so I was interested on how you came to the conclusion he has one at all. You, predictably, have not provided a grain of evidence for said claim, only stating that because he is "my character" I need to prove he does not. Debating doesn't work that way. The person who is asserting the positive or making the claim has to prove it, in this case, you did both, and by trying to force me to prove it, you only continue to commit the Burden of Proof fallacy. Trying to prove the sky is blue? Are you serious? There is no indication at all of Pyron needing to charge some super attack to devour planets, you are making an assumption he needs to, be a friggin man and concede on this, you obviously are not capable of proving it. Pyron moved to the left a little, then, he makes a right and is a star in the distance. So he changed direction. Did not go in a straight line, as the scan clearly demonstrates. And your next argument is as fallacious as your last. Now claiming Pyron somehow is not lightspeed? And quote me when I said he left the galaxy in that scan? You are committing so many fallacies I really don't even care to name them. Pyron, who was on the outskirts of the universe when he received the message from Phobos, then reached Earth in about three years. Which is much faster than light. And the Team Rocket example was for humorous effect(although it wore off in like the third episode), Team Rocket are ordinary humans, are you seriously comparing that to Pyron?
Why are you acting like there is three scans? There are two scans which show any real movement. The first showed him moving to the left, then he took a right and was a little bigger than a star in the sky. No proof of this ungodly slow accelleration you are claiming.
😐. He wears planets for rings. 😬
Ad Hominem. Not replying to anything I said, just insults. And before you say I made one too, I addressed your points, you did not address mine.
You need to read my fully posts. I am not so much disputing that he builds momentum, but your implication is that it is an ungodly amount he needs to build, which you have no basis for.
Could have? Sure, it COULD have a charge time, just like how Pyron COULD be 1,000 times bigger than the solar system or Pyron COULD be able to destroy a galaxy. I don't deal in could be's, your only foundation for that claim is a baseless act of desperation and personal opinion to refute my argument, while he COULD have a charge time, he has never shown to, yet we must assume he does? Fail logic is fail.
No, I'm really not.
3. In every debate you take place in mostly, like your current debate with DarkC for instance. Earth's rules is so obviously a metaphor it confounds to me that you do not get it, it is a metaphor for him lowering himself to their standards to make the battles less of a stomp in his favor.
I have nothing backing me? You are forming your own baseless opinions into something you would call an "argument" and placing them against my arguments supported by fact and logic, yet I am the one with nothing to back him? I loled.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. I said you were making a completely baseless assumption and stating that Highfather could be stronger than Pyron. Which you were. Then you took my argument, and twisted it, bringing up a completely unrelated point, as if you refuted the point I just made, when in actuality you dodged the point completely. I'm not putting up with your bullshit anymore, you either prove your Goddamn claims, stfu and concede, or continue to make repetive BS posts and be immortalized as the most pitiful fallacious debater here. It's not exactly the same, I have logical reasoning behind my points, based on his size and the fact that he wears them as rings, of course Pyron can crush a planet. You have absolutely no evidence at all that Highfather is stronger than Pyron, other than he "could be." Well, Pyron COULD BE a galactic being who has devoured galaxies and can destroy the Milky Way with a single thought, but I could never prove it, hence why I never claim it. Because I am a logical thinker. You, are a speculative thinker, you base your arguments on assumptions, speculation, twisting of the opponent's words, and downright hypocrisy in order to "bully" the opponent out of the debate when they no longer want to deal with your ignorant BS. You yourself have made the claim when debating FOR Pyron that he can destroy planets with his bare hands...But when Pyron is the opposition's character, all of the sudden he can't! 😱 It's called a contradiction, and only cements you as a biased hypocrite.2. I made the claim that Pyron can eat planets. Then, to counter that, you state it has an "unknown charge time." I ask you to prove it has a charge time because he has never shown an indication in any fiction involving Pyron of needing one, so I was interested on how you came to the conclusion he has one at all. You, predictably, have not provided a grain of evidence for said claim, only stating that because he is "my character" I need to prove he does not. Debating doesn't work that way. The person who is asserting the positive or making the claim has to prove it, in this case, you did both, and by trying to force me to prove it, you only continue to commit the Burden of Proof fallacy. Trying to prove the sky is blue? Are you serious? There is no indication at all of Pyron needing to charge some super attack to devour planets, you are making an assumption he needs to, be a friggin man and concede on this, you obviously are not capable of proving it. Pyron moved to the left a little, then, he makes a right and is a star in the distance. So he changed direction. Did not go in a straight line, as the scan clearly demonstrates. And your next argument is as fallacious as your last. Now claiming Pyron somehow is not lightspeed? And quote me when I said he left the galaxy in that scan? You are committing so many fallacies I really don't even care to name them. Pyron, who was on the outskirts of the universe when he received the message from Phobos, then reached Earth in about three years. Which is much faster than light. And the Team Rocket example was for humorous effect(although it wore off in like the third episode), Team Rocket are ordinary humans, are you seriously comparing that to Pyron?
Why are you acting like there is three scans? There are two scans which show any real movement. The first showed him moving to the left, then he took a right and was a little bigger than a star in the sky. No proof of this ungodly slow accelleration you are claiming.
😐. He wears planets for rings. 😬
Ad Hominem. Not replying to anything I said, just insults. And before you say I made one too, I addressed your points, you did not address mine.
You need to read my fully posts. I am not so much disputing that he builds momentum, but your implication is that it is an ungodly amount he needs to build, which you have no basis for.
Could have? Sure, it COULD have a charge time, just like how Pyron COULD be 1,000 times bigger than the solar system or Pyron COULD be able to destroy a galaxy. I don't deal in could be's, your only foundation for that claim is a baseless act of desperation and personal opinion to refute my argument, while he COULD have a charge time, he has never shown to, yet we must assume he does? Fail logic is fail.
No, I'm really not.
3. In every debate you take place in mostly, like your current debate with DarkC for instance. Earth's rules is so obviously a metaphor it confounds to me that you do not get it, it is a metaphor for him lowering himself to their standards to make the battles less of a stomp in his favor.
I have nothing backing me? You are forming your own baseless opinions into something you would call an "argument" and placing them against my arguments supported by fact and logic, yet I am the one with nothing to back him? I loled.
Thats not an assumption, saying a character could be more powerful than another is not an assumption, its an opinion as soon as I say the word could, it means ime not actually making the statement. Also the evidence suggested is that High father would time rape Pyron anyway, its not baseless to say he could do so considering Nozmordu, a being blessed with but a fraction of Amanthuls power can do pretty impressive time feats, including seeing timelines, excisting in several time lines at once etc etc.
No its not corrupted or twisted at all, I simply changed the tables around to make you realise that saying Pyron can do things, not yet shown in his large form, is just as baseless as saying Amanthul can.
lmao, immortalised, in your mind V2D anyone who disagrees with you is either a fanboy, or a bad debator, when your the one shamefully saying ime wrong when ime simply using your own logic, thats when it shows YOU are the bad debator, nobody else.
No, Pyron couldnt be that, its not within the Darkstalkers powers nor Pyrons...so no, he couldnt..
No it cements me as a good debator, I let my opponent do the work they shoud be doing, even though I may use something I claim illegal in another thread, its one of my clever debating tactics, make someone else do the hard work, because I dont have to.....wheras you do...YOU have to prove Pyron can do things, and size is not everything, Pyron being bigger than a planet does not make him stronger or able to pummel it with ease.
2. I dont need to prove he has a charge time, I simply asked how fast he can do it, if you have no indication other than assumption at how fast, then the attack itself is worthless to you in this debate and any other...that is my point...
Pyron cannot move at full speed straight away fact as its shown by the scans, as i said, he could be a star in the distance from the beginning but no, he moves a couple of times, and fairly short distances before he is in the distance, which could indeed be only a short distance, no major, for all we know, he is still moving slowly. Its likely he can move lightspeed, just theres no actual evidence that ive seen for it, that scan certainly doesnt show it.
Where does it say he was on the outskirts, also does it state how big the universe actuall is in the DS universe, since scientists of today dont know how big our universe is exactley. Let me guess, your going to assume again? 🙄
Ime comparing effects, the fac ttheir human doesnt make a diffrence, the distane they must travel is whats important, your claiming that just because Pyron is in the distance in one of the posts that contitutes to lightspeed or? because Team rocket have the exact same effect, a little star in teh distance!
There is however proof of acceleration, he didnt just immediatley go super lightspeedzor! he had to start moving, which means hes not going to suddenly blitz anyone in this debate. Not that he could with Aman'Thul having such vast time powers.
err and how do you know how big those planets are? are you assuming again? do you actually know if he didnt transmute them to fit around his fingers like he supposedly transmuted them to go around his finger in the first place? no we dont...dont assume please..
Also what actually says their planets? I dont remember the scan saying so...
Erm no, you dont understand what "could" means do you, no, Pyron could have none of that at all....No my base for that claim is the fact you have no base for the claim its fast either, which makes the feat fortunatley useless to you....
3. my current debate with DarkC is not really a debate, all hes doing is assuming which according to you is wrong so ime not exactley going to reply to random assumptions, ime going to try and make a real debate out of it if he lets me. Does anything actually say that thats what the story means by Earths rules or are you simply making something up that sounds like it could be useful for your argument?
and your argument there is dashed immediatley, since he doesnt lower himself to their standards at all, how is fireing mini suns, nuclear punches and (according to you) unbreakable forcefields Earth standards? 🙄
Your just letting off hot air with those last comments, youve supported nothing factual, wheres your facts? you have none....simply assumptions based from scans that done back you up, much like how DarkC quote from the Halo book does not actually back up what he is claiming. Your falling in the same pit he is in, only thing is I thot you were better than that. My only goal is to debate against your assumptions, if that means making my own to mock yours then thats my point. You seem to think ime trying to prove he has a slow momentum or that ime trying to prove he has a slow cast time for planet absorbtion when thats not the case, ime simply enjoying stamping on your assumptions (same in the DarkC "debate"😉 so that your not running about trying to use abilities not actually shown to a degree not shown.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. A black hole? All of earth's mass compressed into a black hole would be around the size of a marble, if it was a black hole, Azeroth would be destroyed.2. Fixing a flaw in the timeline is good and all, but you are hyping it to be this great feat of holding back the dimension from collapsing. It is not a country-wide feat, let alone universal.
3. ...Given the time? Given the time, Akuma from Streetfighter can rip a planet apart, given the time, Sephiroth can rip a planet apart. Elaborate.
4. Planetary. High end planetary possibly, but the difference between a planet and the next step, Solar System, is gargantuan.
Hence why I said that if the Flaw functioned like a black hole and was the size of a mountain, well Nozdormu's feat doesn't exactly become lesser.
When it is point blank stated by the omniscient narrator (at least in the comic) that Nozdormu kept the universe from going down the drain, what position are you then in to argue against him? None really from my perspective.
Given the time to prepare a Paramount spell, that can take anything from a minut to a hour. Also I can see that there have been some discussion concerning the Planet Destroying, It's correct that one of the spells is cittering death that was in MoM in the new version (cannot recall it's name and doesn't have it anymore) The Eredar's Paramount spells isn't mentioned with like for instance Cittering death, the Spell just mentioned as something that can range from leveling a city to wipe away a planet ore something like that, I will try and get a hold on the handbook again.
I know, but the fact that a Single Eredar can destroy a planet, and that the average Eredar's powerlevel are far beneath Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde, who are far below Sargeras powerlevel can only make us wonder what Powerlevel he is actually on, and Highfather is his equal in terms of raw power and controls time to a much much greater degree then Nozdormu does.
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory1. I do not understand. Explain.
1. Oh damn, I believe we've got a misunderstanding... may have been my fault. He was holding it together, it was as strong as it got, Noz was containing it. Faltering but for a single moment would've meant the End.3. It summons a virtually endless amount of magical carrion beetles that eat/destroy everything in their path.
4. It's not necessary, I know it's true hence why I've said that comic characters have retardedly outrageous powers.
2. 😐
That's a joke right? Because if that is all it is, then it is not even equal to razing the surface of a planet.
Originally posted by ThunderGodEneru
1. I do not understand. Explain.2. 😐
That's a joke right? Because if that is all it is, then it is not even equal to razing the surface of a planet.
1. Well, The Old Gods, despite being severely weakened and imprisoned, somehow managed to temper with the timeline which caused a rip in reality and time(the temporal storm). The rip would've destroyed everything if not for Nozdormu being inside it and containing it. However, that wasn't enough to quench it, and it was still expanding, but it had lost a lot of its potency because of Noz being inside it and containing it.
2. Chittering Death
Summon endless carrion beetles.
Conjuration (Creation, Calling)
Description
Carrion beetles spew from your mouth and swarm
over the landscape.
The carrion beetles spread out in the
area around you in every direction, wherever they
have room to fit, attacking and eating everything in
their path.
The description right out of 'Shadows & Light'
