National ID + MicroChip - If We Fall For This We're Screwed

Started by NuclearWinter4 pages
Originally posted by KharmaDog
I'm not about to watch a 2 hr and 20 minute video. Cut to the chase and list sources.

KharmaDog how good to see you. Funny how you should only post in this thread after I post a link to a very revealing video about just about everything a person today should know regarding the government, ect.

What is even funnier to me though Kharma, is that you seem to be oblivious to one fact. What the hell do you think almost all movies coming out today at your movie theatre or that you bring home after renting are running for? Can we say....about 2 hours? Some of them 2 hours and 20 minutes?

So whats your arguement for watching those videos and not this one? You'll have to change your reason though because the time theory has been blown out the window.

Thats weird. The link to the video is no longer working. It was working fine before I posted it here though......

I guess I'll just have to post a different one. There is bound to be tons of copies out there of Alex Jones's new video - End Game -.

Ok this time no excuses people. I'm breaking it up for those who wish to watch it. If you can't watch it all tonight, at least watch one of the sections hey?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25yhygUkecE (Part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9XMu2UrSX0&feature=related (Part 2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F59cMimOmiE&feature=related (Part 3)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKYWs9sZ36M&feature=related (Part 4)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VULQziRL80&feature=related (Part 5)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqN60p7niH4&feature=related (Part 6)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTRToKbqy00&feature=related (Part 7)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL-lB_Nk08U&feature=related (Part 8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9s_GbRna8M&feature=related (Part 9)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj8DmxS1etE&feature=related (Part 10)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co7aIx85rWg&feature=related (Part 11)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_M16LzbYeY&feature=related (12)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vrgMyAAj0o&feature=related (13)

Originally posted by NuclearWinter
KharmaDog how good to see you. Funny how you should only post in this thread after I post a link to a very revealing video about just about everything a person today should know regarding the government, ect.

Not funny at all. Not funny in the least.

As for knowing everything about the gov't, no, I don't think so. If you think you'll learn everthing you need to know about gov't from one alex jones video, then you are a nut.

Originally posted by NuclearWinter
What is even funnier to me though Kharma, is that you seem to be oblivious to one fact. What the hell do you think almost all movies coming out today at your movie theatre or that you bring home after renting are running for? Can we say....about 2 hours? Some of them 2 hours and 20 minutes?

That's not funny at all. Unless this is your lame attempt at humour or pointing out a whimsical observation...because in that case...it's still not funny.

Originally posted by NuclearWinter
So whats your arguement for watching those videos and not this one? You'll have to change your reason though because the time theory has been blown out the window.

Entertainment as opposed to propaganda, and moronic propganda at that. If there were hard facts that were worth knowing, I would assume you would try and post them, instead you post a two hour long video and hope to make a point. I was interested in what you thought was in store for Canada, but only enough to be slightly amused. Not enough to watch crap for two hours.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
Not funny at all. Not funny in the least.

As for knowing everything about the gov't, no, I don't think so. If you think you'll learn everthing you need to know about gov't from one alex jones video, then you are a nut.

That's not funny at all. Unless this is your lame attempt at humour or pointing out a whimsical observation...because in that case...it's still not funny.

Entertainment as opposed to propaganda, and moronic propganda at that. If there were hard facts that were worth knowing, I would assume you would try and post them, instead you post a two hour long video and hope to make a point. I was interested in what you thought was in store for Canada, but only enough to be slightly amused. Not enough to watch crap for two hours.

Of all the things you are Kharma, un-intelligent is not one of them. So therefore, I don't buy that you have absolutely no clue what is in store for Canada. It may not be exactly what I think, but I know you already have your own opinion on the subject.

Being interested in what someone has to say and agreeing with them are two different things. I don't remember a time where we have agreed, if I'm wrong, please refresh my memory.

Originally posted by NuclearWinter
Of all the things you are Kharma, un-intelligent is not one of them.

Thank you.

Originally posted by NuclearWinter
So therefore, I don't buy that you have absolutely no clue what is in store for Canada. It may not be exactly what I think, but I know you already have your own opinion on the subject.

We all have our opinions. We can't but help it. But you are still being vague. What do you see in my countries future, and how did you come to that conclusion?

Originally posted by NuclearWinter
Being interested in what someone has to say and agreeing with them are two different things.

I never said they weren't. But "being interested in what someone has to say" can mean many things.

Look the truth be told Kharma, and I know this may sting, the video that I wish you would watch sums up most if not all of my beliefs about what is in store for Canada.

I could type the same thing the video will both explain and show, but I believe the combination of pictures and words is more powerful than just words alone.

I can't force you to watch the video. But that doesn't stop me from asking you to. Will you please watch the video? And then let me know what you think?

If you watch the entire video, then we will have a format to discuss from. I won't ask you to watch any other video again. But I won't beat a dead horse if you refuse.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1070329053600562261

The Real ID Act, which is a law signed by President Bush in May 2005, and, if it is accepted by and carried out by the states, would turn state drivers licenses into a genuine national identity card and impose numerous new burdens on taxpayers, citizens, immigrants, and state governments.

Real ID would force the states to standardize drivers licenses cards across the nation into a single national identity card and database. It does this by stipulating that state drivers licenses and state ID cards will not be accepted for federal purposes including boarding an aircraft or entering a federal facility unless they meet all of the laws numerous conditions, which include:

Standardized data elements and security features on the IDs.

A machine readable zone that will allow for the easy capture of all the data on the ID by stores or anyone else with a reader.

The construction of a 50-state, interlinked database making all the information in each persons file available to all the other states and to the federal government.

A requirement that states verify the issuance, validity and completeness of every document presented at motor vehicles agencies (usually called DMVs) as part of an application for a Real ID card.

Whats Wrong With Real ID

Its a national identity system. The standardized national drivers licenses created by Real ID would become a key part of a system of identity papers, databases, status and identity checks and access control points an internal passport that will increasingly be used to track and control individuals movements and activities.

Will not be effective against terrorism. The fact is, identity-based security is not an effective way to stop terrorism. ID documents do not reveal anything about evil intent and even if they did, determined terrorists will always be able to obtain fraudulent documents (either counterfeit or real documents bought from corrupt officials).

Will be a nightmare for state governments. Real ID requires state governments to remake their drivers licenses, restructure many of their computer databases and other systems, create an extensive new document-storage system, and perhaps most difficult of all verify the issuance, validity and completeness of every document presented at DMVs. See Real Burdens.

Will mean higher fees, long lines, and bureaucratic nightmares for individuals. Because Congress ordered but did not pay for these mandates, which will cost states billions of dollars, fees on individuals applying for drivers licenses will inevitably rise, perhaps steeply. Individuals are also likely to confront slower service, longer lines, and frequent bureaucratic snafus in obtaining these ID cards. Many unlucky individuals will find themselves caught in a bureaucratic nightmare as they run up against the complexities of this law.

Increased security and ID-theft risks.
The creation of a single interlinked database as well as the requirement that each DMV store copies of every birth certificate and other documents presented to it will create a one-stop shop for identity thieves.

Will be exploited by the private sector to invade privacy. Real ID would make it easy for anybody in private industry to snap up the data on these IDs. Already, bars often swipe licenses to collect personal data on customers but that will prove to be just the tip of the iceberg as every convenience store learns to grab that data and sell it to data companies for a dime.

Will expand over time. The Real ID database will inevitably, over time, become the repository for more and more data on individuals, and will be drawn on for an ever-wider set of purposes. Its standardized machine-readable interface will drive its integration into an ever-growing network of identity checks and access control points each of which will create new data trails that will in turn be linked to that central database or its private-sector shadow equivalent.

The Real ID Act has been passed by Congress and signed into law by President Bush. But its acceptance in the states is far from assured. And the states have to come into compliance, or their citizens drivers licenses will eventually no longer be accepted for federal purposes. But the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) must first complete work creating regulations that spell out in more detail exactly what the states must do to make compliant IDs.

The Act was not passed through a true democratic process. It was slipped through Congress in May 2005 in a must-pass Iraq War/Tsunami relief supplemental bill, as part of a deal reached between the powerful Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R, Wis.) and the Congressional leadership. There was no time for sufficient consideration of the Act and its sweeping implications; in the Senate, there was not even a single hearing held on the Act. The result is that Real ID lacks the legitimacy that comes from having been studied, debated, considered, and directly voted upon by Americans elected representatives.

The game is not over, it has just moved into the states. Although the Act was passed by Congress, Real ID cannot go into effect without a multitude of actions in the states. State legislatures must appropriate money and, in most cases, change state laws. State executives must remake or build anew all the administrative machinery required to comply with the Acts numerous mandates. And a lot of people at the state level do not like what they see.

Broad interest-group opposition. Opponents range from privacy and civil liberties organizations like the ACLU to conservative groups to immigration groups.

Its a bad Act. Most fundamentally, the Real ID Act has sparked opposition because it would not be good for our country.

The opposition to Real ID is broad and deep, and despite its passage by Congress, there remains an excellent chance that it will be reversed in part or in whole.

Simply put, Real ID would offer significant costs and disadvantages without any corresponding advantages:

By definitively turning drivers licenses into a form of national identity documents, Real ID would have a tremendously destructive impact on privacy.

The Act would impose significant administrative burdens and expenses on state governments, and would mean higher fees, longer lines, repeat visits to the DMV, and bureaucratic nightmares for individuals.

Yet, it would not be effective at increasing security against terrorism or bring any other benefits which would justify those costs.

Real ID would significantly strain state governments. Among the most significant burdens:

It would require the states to remake their driver's licenses, restructure many of their computer databases and other systems, create an extensive new document-storage system, and considerably expanded their security measures.

It would require the states to set up an interstate data-sharing network, which would also require complex administrative, technical, and security measures.

It includes a devilishly difficult mandate that states verify the issuance, validity and completeness of every birth certificate, immigration document, utility bill, and any other document presented at DMVs as part of an application for a Real ID card.

Yet, it leaves the DMVs with no way to compel utility companies or other document issuers to cooperate with that verification.

It would require states to expand their DMV payrolls, initiate or expand employee training in such areas as security, document verification, and immigration law, and initiate or expand security clearance procedures for their workers.

Many in state government are saying that it would be nearly impossible to comply with Real ID by the Act's deadline.

Real ID would mean higher fees, inconveniences, and bureaucratic nightmares for individuals.

Higher fees. Because the Act's mandates would cost states billions of dollars that Congress is not paying for, fees on individuals applying for driver's licenses would inevitably rise, perhaps steeply. State taxes might also go up.

Worse service. Because of the new document requirements for individuals, the labor-intensive complexities involved in verifying those documents, and the need for DMVs to reprocess the bulk of the population that already has driver's licenses, individuals would be likely to confront slower service, longer lines, and the need for repeat visits to the DMV.

Bureaucratic problems. The complicated yet often ambiguous maze of requirements created by the Act would throw many unlucky individuals into a bureaucratic quagmire as they try to overcome inflexible verification requirements, bureaucratic errors or mismatches, lost documents, unique circumstances, or other problems. Some individuals, inevitably, would find themselves unable to obtain these new identity papers.

These kinds of problems would be significant for anyone. In addition, for many low-income workers for whom taking off time from work is difficult or expensive, the need for repeated trips to the DMV (and to other agencies such as registrar's offices in search of birth certificates) would be an even greater burden.

Millions of Americans do not have driver's licenses. Out of a population of 290 million residents, there are only 194 million licensed drivers. In addition to millions of children and teenagers, the elderly are particularly likely to lack licenses. An estimated 36 percent of Georgia residents over age 74, for example, lack driver's licenses.

By creating strict new identity requirements for federal identification and, inevitably, expanding them over time to cover a growing list of purposes, Real ID would force the people in this population to figure out a way to jump through the bureaucratic hoops required to get compliant identity documents and leave DMVs struggling with how to process them.

In some cases, individuals would not be able to obtain birth certificates, or the documents they have in hand upon arriving at the DMV would not be able to be verified.

Over the decades, records are lost through fires, floods, and disasters such as Hurricane Katrina.

Documents can be rendered suspect due to fraud or malfeasance. In 2004, for example, thousands of Hudson County, NJ residents received word that their birth certificates had been declared invalid because of an ongoing fraud investigation at the County Clerks office.

Over 30 million people in the U.S. are foreign-born, and many of them were born in remote undeveloped nations or other places where no birth records are kept, or in places (such as what is now North Korea) where any records might be difficult or impossible to obtain.

Some people are not sure when or even where they were born.

It is far from clear what would happen to such people. Real ID is silent on how such individuals should be handled, so DMVs would need to figure out if they would simply be denied identity papers, or if their applications could be processed in some other way consistent with the Act.

Whether or not they obtain second class licenses, those who cannot get Real ID-compliant identity documents could in theory be left unable to fly on commercial aircraft, enter federal facilities such as courthouses or office buildings, or even possibly get a job legally.

Furthermore, the list of activities for which these IDs are required is sure to expand, if the current mindless trend of seeking security through identity papers is not reversed. In fact, the Real ID Act explicitly says that Real IDs shall be required not only for activities like boarding aircraft, but also for any other purposes that "the Secretary [of Homeland Security] shall determine."

The legislation that was rammed into law provided no money to pay the states costs to comply, so those costs would ultimately be borne by the residents of each state if not in the form of higher fees at the DMV, then in the form of higher taxes.

That is why Real ID is for all intents and purposes a hidden tax increase. If Congressional leaders want to impose a multi-billion-dollar security tax on the American citizens, they must do so only through well-established mechanisms and after a proper period of open debate and exploratory hearings that examine the costs and benefits of such a measure. Congressional leaders must not impose an enormously expensive (and dubiously effective) security scheme while trying to weasel out of paying for such a scheme by sneaking its costs along to taxpayers through higher license fees and/or state tax increases.

Real ID would become a key infrastructure for, and dramatically accelerate, the surveillance society that is already being constructed in the United States. Once put in place, it would be used more and more for the routine tracking, monitoring, and regulation of individuals movements and activities, it would be exploited by the private sector, and it would expose individuals to greater risk of identity theft and other security risks. Its centralized database would inevitably, over time, become the repository for more and more data on individuals, and would be drawn on for an ever-wider set of purposes.

The creation of a single interlinked database (as well as the requirement that each DMV store copies of all the birth certificates and other documents presented to it) would create a one-stop shop for identity thieves. Nearly 10 million people, or 5 percent of U.S. adults, were victims of identity theft in one year (2002) alone, according to a U.S. Federal Trade Commission study. The security problems with creating concentrated databases have been repeatedly demonstrated over the years most recently in the rash of cases where information held by commercial database companies has fallen into the hands of identity thieves or others. The governments record at information security is little better. And DMV employees around the country have repeatedly been caught in corruption schemes such as selling fraudulent licenses or data to identity thieves.

The new identity system created by Real ID would accelerate a larger American trend toward a the construction of a public-private Security-Industrial Complex. Data aggregators like ChoicePoint, Acxiom, Lexis-Nexis and others make up an enormous, multi-billion-dollar industry that builds dossiers on individuals using a wide array of sources. And the government is increasingly turning to such companies for help with security functions. The FBI, for example, pays millions to ChoicePoint, and the TSA wants to use private-sector firms in performing identity checks on airline passengers.

The common machine-readable technology on Real IDs would allow for easy, computerized transfer of the data on the cards not only to the government at checkpoints like airports, but also to private parties. Already, many bars already collect all their customers information (including such details as height and weight) by swiping drivers licenses handed over to prove legal drinking age. That might prove to be just the tip of the iceberg as every big-box retailer, convenience store, and liquor mart learns to grab that data and sell it to Choicepoint for a dime. The result would be that, even if the states and federal government do successfully protect the data, it would be harvested by private companies, which would then build up a parallel, for-profit database on Americans, free from even the limited privacy rules in effect for the government.

Although individual states drivers licenses may continue to exhibit cosmetic differences, under Real ID they would contain a standardized set of information collected by all 50 states, in standard format, encoded on a standardized machine-readable zone. And although individual states would still maintain their own databases, by requiring them to be interlinked, Real ID would bring into being what is, for all practical purposes, a single distributed database. In short, underneath each states pretty designs they are really a single standardized national card. Local DMV offices may continue to appear to be state offices, but under Real ID they would become agents acting on behalf of the federal government, charged with administering what amounts to an internal passport without which no one will be able to function in America.

There will also be a construction of a larger network of identity papers, databases, status and identity checks and access control points in short, what has been called an internal passport. If the old drivers license represented a license to drive the governments very specific permission to operate a vehicle on the public roadways the fear is that the new documents will become tantamount to a license to leave your house.

National IDs would violate privacy by helping to consolidate data. There is an enormous and ever-increasing amount of data being collected about Americans today. Ones grocery store, for example, might use a loyalty card to keep detailed records of what you buy, while Amazon keeps records of what you read, the airlines keep track of where you fly, and so on. This can be an invasion of privacy, but our privacy has actually been protected by the fact that all this information still remains scattered across many different databases. But once the government, landlords, employers, or other powerful forces gain the ability to draw together all this information, our privacy will really be destroyed. And that is exactly what a national identity system would facilitate.

A national ID like Real ID would also facilitate tracking. When a police officer or security guard scans your ID card with his pocket bar-code reader, for example, it will likely create a permanent record of that check, including the time and your location. How long before office buildings, doctors offices, gas stations, highway tolls, subways and buses incorporate the ID card into their security or payment systems for greater efficiency? The end result could be a situation where citizens movements inside their own country are monitored and recorded through these internal passports."

Originally posted by NuclearWinter
KharmaDog how good to see you. Funny how you should only post in this thread after I post a link to a very revealing video about just about everything a person today should know regarding the government, ect.

What is even funnier to me though Kharma, is that you seem to be oblivious to one fact. What the hell do you think almost all movies coming out today at your movie theatre or that you bring home after renting are running for? Can we say....about 2 hours? Some of them 2 hours and 20 minutes?

So whats your arguement for watching those videos and not this one? You'll have to change your reason though because the time theory has been blown out the window.

that just shows the proof as always,that Kharma dog like always, is afraid of the truth and doesnt want to know about government conspiracys. 😄 yeah funny how he DOES have time to go to a movie theater and watch a movie and devote two hours to THAT.something that is a lot less important than this. 😆 His logic kills me. 😆

btw,thanks for the info winter.I havent read through it all,just glimpsed at it but i can see just from that glimpse,theres a lot of important information here to look at.

Seven.

Originally posted by Captain REX
NuclearWinter, please refrain from double-posting, or, in your case, quintuple posting.
Originally posted by Mr Parker
funny how he DOES have time to go to a movie theater and watch a movie and devote two hours to THAT.something that is a lot less important than this. 😆 His logic kills me. 😆
Originally posted by Mr Parker
I havent read through it all,just glimpsed at it

You're an idiot.

Originally posted by KharmaDog
You're an idiot.

hahaha...brilliant

Originally posted by KharmaDog
You're an idiot.

Pwn.

Originally posted by NuclearWinter
Good point Mr. Parker.

There is alot of opposition. I am at the point of praying that it doesn't happen though bro. I guarantee you if it does it will be the beginning of the end of our freedom in America.

exactly.great thread.I am telling everyone I know about it and call their reps because if it goes through,we will be in a nazi world for sure.well were already there now but we will be even much worse if this goes through than we are now.I wont take it.the moment you do that,the moment you become the governments property. great thread.thanks for the info.

Originally posted by jaden101
hahaha...brilliant

There's beauty in simplicity.