Thanos HotU vs. PR Beyonder

Originally posted by King Kandy
Whoah, who ever said that none of the multiverses had any abstracts?! It was my understanding that they just had different concepts.

And I understand that Beyonder's realm was seperate, but it was part of marvel. And Marvel today is the same size it was then, just differently arranged. My point still stands, Beyonder was missing that "drop of water", but thanos wasn't missing anything at all.

The way I was looking at it though....if Thanos had the HOTI in 1984-1985....he would've only had the power of "that drop of water"..since that is what all of Marvel was at the time...compared to the Beyonder. Thanos would not have had any control or jurisdiction over the Beyond Realm at that time. The Beyonder would've still been INFINITELY larger than the scope of the HOTI power.

However, since Thanos had the HOTI more recently....his power and scope encompassed both Marvel and the "former" Beyond Realm. You see the Paradox here? The HOTI wouldn't have been nearly as powerful THEN as it is NOW. I think it depends on WHEN the Beyonder and Thanos fight that determines the outcome of this battle. In Secret Wars....Thanos would've been stomped...apparently...since the HOTI wouldn't have encompassed the Beyond Realm at that time. Today, it would be atleast a stalemate. When Beyonder entered the Marvel Multiverse...he encompassed everything in this reality also....making him as powerful as Thanos was recently with the HOTI.

Well the Beyond Realm is still part of Marvel. It was published by the marvel company. Therefore, THOTU would have had jurisdiction over it.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Well the Beyond Realm is still part of Marvel. It was published by the marvel company. Therefore, THOTU would have had jurisdiction over it.

That is why the Beyonder was retconned....just for that reason. Think about it. In real life...yes, Marvel did create the Beyond Realm...and the Beyonder...and is therefore subject to the TOAA...IN REAL LIFE. However....ON PANEL...it is quite a different story. The Beyonder was created to be a Supreme Power separate from Marvel. Because of this...the TOAA...would not have had control over the Beyond Realm....on PANEL. This means that the Beyonder(an ocean) would be more powerful than the TOAA(Marvel...a drop of water). The Beyonder was depicted as being more powerful than the Marvel company itself. The TOAA would have been like a mom and pop grocery store compared to the Beyonder...who would have been like the Wal-Mart empire in comparison...Wal-Mart has much much more power and money than any locally owned business.

Beyonder had to be retconned for being too powerful. Now that Marvel encompasses the Beyond Realm today...this is of no consequence....and the HOTI would be equal to what the Beyonder once was. However, at the time during Secret Wars....Beyonder's power far surpassed Marvel on the power scale....being well above the TOAA....ON PANEL....again....not in real life...as Marvel actually created the Beyonder.

TOAA doesn't exist on panel. TOAA is the writer.

Originally posted by King Kandy
TOAA doesn't exist on panel. TOAA is the writer.

His power and authority exist on panel though. His authority was only the Marvel universe during Secret Wars....not the Beyond Realm. The Beyonder encompassed so much more than the TOAA did. Again, that is why Beyonder was retconned. He can't be more powerful than the company who created him....on PANEL.

Originally posted by Southern_Rebel
His power and authority exist on panel though. His authority was only the Marvel universe during Secret Wars....not the Beyond Realm. The Beyonder encompassed so much more than the TOAA did. Again, that is why Beyonder was retconned. He can't be more powerful than the company who created him....on PANEL.

So TOAA retconned him, so TOAA could do anything to PR Beyonder and to his realm.
TOAA also created him and everyting that was ever written in Marvel.

Originally posted by Southern_Rebel

That is why the Beyonder was retconned....just for that reason. Think about it. In real life...yes, Marvel did create the Beyond Realm...and the Beyonder...and is therefore subject to the TOAA...IN REAL LIFE. However....ON PANEL...it is quite a different story. The Beyonder was created to be a Supreme Power separate from Marvel. Because of this...the TOAA...would not have had control over the Beyond Realm....on PANEL. This means that the Beyonder(an ocean) would be more powerful than the TOAA(Marvel...a drop of water). The Beyonder was depicted as being more powerful than the Marvel company itself. The TOAA would have been like a mom and pop grocery store compared to the Beyonder...who would have been like the Wal-Mart empire in comparison...Wal-Mart has much much more power and money than any locally owned business.

Beyonder had to be retconned for being too powerful. Now that Marvel encompasses the Beyond Realm today...this is of no consequence....and the HOTI would be equal to what the Beyonder once was. However, at the time during Secret Wars....Beyonder's power far surpassed Marvel on the power scale....being well above the TOAA....ON PANEL....again....not in real life...as Marvel actually created the Beyonder.

Originally posted by Southern_Rebel

His power and authority exist on panel though. His authority was only the Marvel universe during Secret Wars....not the Beyond Realm. The Beyonder encompassed so much more than the TOAA did. Again, that is why Beyonder was retconned. He can't be more powerful than the company who created him....on PANEL.

Originally posted by Xplosive

So TOAA retconned him,
so TOAA could do anything to PR Beyonder and to his realm.
TOAA also created him and everyting that was ever written in Marvel.

Toaa/god (writer/artist) did not retcon Beyonder, it was editorial staff. (ultimate god)

Toaa/god (writer/artist) and the god of Toaa/god (Editor in-chief)
were BOTH Jim Shooter simultaneously ...
Jim is the guy who wrote/created Secret Wars I-II and the Beyonder.
(Al Milgrom was the artist)

Jim Shooter created Beyonder/Beyond Realm,
to be something outside all known existence,
beyond every reality in the Marvel Universe.

Toaa/god's power that Thanos acquired through THOTI,
gave him absolute power over every Universe that derives from 616,
in other words, all known existence in the Marvel Universe. (Omniverse)

Beyonder was beyond all known existence in the Marvel Universe:

Jim Shooter in his own words in an interview with Marvel Age:

Only Jim Shooter (Writer/Editor in-chief) had jurisdiction over the Beyonder,

Only the next Editor-in chief in Marvel after Shooter, was able to retcon him.

Tom DeFalco became the Editor-in chief of Marvel in 1987,
Beyonder was retconned by his approval only in 1988.

......................................................................................

Btw.

Marvel Age isn't some cheesy mag,
Marvel Age is an actual Marvel Comic Books related Magazine. (issue #1-2-3 etc)

Here's the cover of #52:

Anyone who demeans this as a source of Marvel facts is a hater,
who can't take the truth.

The purpose of this Comic Book Magazine was to inform Marvel Comic book readers,
of intricate details to hundreds of stories that have taken place On Panel.
Details coming from the WRITERS themselves of said Marvel Comic book stories. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
Incorrect.

Toaa/god (writer/artist) did not retcon Beyonder, it was editorial staff. (ultimate god)

Toaa/god (writer/artist) and the god of Toaa/god (Editor in-chief)
were BOTH Jim Shooter simultaneously ...
Jim is the guy who wrote/created Secret Wars I-II and the Beyonder.
(Al Milgrom was the artist)

Jim Shooter created Beyonder/Beyond Realm,
to be something outside all known existence,
beyond every reality in the Marvel Universe.

So yeah, TOAA is the whole Marvel company, anyone who represents it, writes it, editor, so yeah, TOAA created PR Beyonder and his realm.
At the time the avatar of TOAA was Jim Shooter, who could do anything with PR Beyonder, since he also created him.

Originally posted by Xplosive

So yeah, TOAA is the whole Marvel company

Originally posted by Xplosive

anyone who represents it, writes it, editor,
so yeah, TOAA created PR Beyonder and his realm.

You're getting close to being ignored, as the cirlce is becoming tiresome.

In your mind, anyone that represent is Toaa/god,
but accoridng to Marvel comics,
Toaa/god, was depicted as a representation of the artists/writers of Marvel.
There is a superceding authority above Toaa/god (artists/writers) of Marvel.,
the EDITOR in-chief.

The ONLY cat that was able to change what the prior EDITOR-in chief CREATED,
Secret Wars/Beyonder.

If you can't abosrb this simple info normally, let me know and don't waste my time.

Originally posted by Xplosive

At the time the avatar of TOAA was Jim Shooter,
who could do anything with PR Beyonder, since he also created him.

ONLY Tom DeFalco the NEXT Editor-in chief was able to retcon Beyonder.
NOT a writer or artist, who together represent Toaa/god of FF#511.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Jim Shooter was the EDITOR in-chief plus the WRITER.

ONLY Tom DeFalco the NEXT Editor-in chief was able to retcon Beyonder.
NOT a writer or artist, who together represent Toaa/god of FF#511.

Which is the reason the Beyonder was created in the first place, many artist and writers during that time periode felt that Shooter was mis-using his power as Editor In Chief.

Further more the Beyonder was going to be retconned by Steve Englehart without the current editor in chief of that time which was Tom DeFalco however it was Tom DeFalco hatred to the Beyonder that limited him to a Cosmic Cube els he would simply have been tried to the Beyonders but not as a Cosmic Cube.

Originally posted by Mr Master
You're getting close to being ignored, as the cirlce is becoming tiresome.

What are you waiting for?
TOAA is the whole Marvel company.

I'm sorry, but when discussions get to this point ..

Originally posted by Mr Master
Toaa/god (writer/artist) did not retcon Beyonder, it was editorial staff. (ultimate god)

This is becoming ridiculous.

Thinking TOAA = writers is ridiculous enough, but now using this to debate certain charactes, going as far as to talk about editors and such, is idiotic, no offense intended 😬

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
I'm sorry, but when discussions get to this point ..

This is becoming ridiculous.

Thinking TOAA = writers is ridiculous enough, but now using this to debate certain charactes, going as far as to talk about editors and such, is idiotic, no offense intended 😬

I agree, fictional battles should stay fictional and not involve real persons.

Originally posted by GN.
I agree, fictional battles should stay fictional and not involve real persons.

Yes. Regardless of who in the real world made the decisions, Pre-retcon Beyonder was God before God created anything, the sole all-encompassing entity of his own multiverse of which the other multiverse he was observing was an a drop of water compared to an ocean don't blame me, Marvel said it). To that pre-retcon Beyonder, Thanos and all his toys put together would be irrelevant. The only devices that got to the Beyonder were ones he made himself. The Beyonder that people keep saying would be beaten by Thanos is not the pre-retcon Beyonder. People are sneaking in elements of post-retcon or assuming the Beyonder makes devices that can beat him and allows Thanos to get them.

Originally posted by Utrigita

Which is the reason the Beyonder was created in the first place, many artist and writers during that time periode felt that Shooter was mis-using his power as Editor In Chief.

He noticeably got away with it,
because the Beyonder was created,
and with exaggerated power as Shooter intended.

Originally posted by Utrigita

Further more
the Beyonder was going to be retconned by Steve Englehart
without the current editor in chief of that time which was Tom DeFalco

Jim Shooter was the Editor-in Chief,
through out Beyonder's entire existence in Secret Wars I and II,
in fact, Tom DeFalco was his successor in 1987 (Two Years after SS-II)

I don't even think Englehart was ever Editor-in chief of anything,
certainly not in the mid or late 80's (that was Shooter and DeFalco)

Originally posted by Utrigita

however it was Tom DeFalco hatred to the Beyonder that limited him to a Cosmic Cube
els he would simply have been tried to the Beyonders but not as a Cosmic Cube.

It was DeFalco (Marvel's Editor-in chief after Shooter) that retconned Beyonder.

The ONLY authoritative power able to do so.

Originally posted by Xplosive

What are you waiting for?
TOAA is the whole Marvel company.

Originally posted by GN.

I agree, fictional battles should stay fictional and not involve real persons.

Btw. Who's using real people to battle in a fictional setting?

I'll let em know myself, that's a no no.

Originally posted by King Kandy

TOAA doesn't exist on panel. TOAA is the writer.

Toaa/god are avatars that represent the writers/artists of Marvel.

But Toaa/god, (the avatar that is) is a fictional character that has appeared on panel.

The only detail is that again, they represent real people,
but of course, on panel they're not. (in the literal sense that is)

stoned

Let's debate respectfully yall,
ignore trolls and haters and enjoy yourselves friends. 🙂