Originally posted by Mr MasterThat's just one of many who can stomp "omnipotent" Shuma.
Right MJJ can beat him but I'm wondering who coined Shuma as omnipotent anyway. Musta been Wikipedia. 😬 If Strange can go to his dimension and defeat him by absorbing his own mystical energy then he is far from omnipotent.
Or is Strange omnipotent when he uses the black arts? 😖hifty:
Originally posted by Galan007Thanos has the better on panel feats --
Beyonder has the better on panel statements...Feats > statements,
Thanos > Beyonder.
Let's run a check list then, and see if that's accurate.
The biggest/top feats performed by THOTI and Beyonder:
..............................................................................
THOTI:
1. Absorbed the Cosmic hierarchy (including LT) & every character in Space-Time.
2. Erased all of Space-Time in Marvel.
3. Re-created all of Space-Time in Marvel, including every being he absorbed.
..............................................................................
Beyonder:
1. Had the Cosmic hierachy (including LT) so afraid,
they didn't even dare attempt to attack him.
LT & the hierarchy were literally "desperate"
and at one point they even "trembled."
2. Defeated the most powerful being in Marvel (Molecule Man) who was above LT.
LT > entire current Marvel Reality.
3. Created a Multiverse from scratch that was atleast Quintillions of times more infinite,
than the infinite Marvel Reality.
(based on Shooter's analogy) -
which was ...
"Beyond Realm is an Ocean ...
while "Our Universe" (Marvel Reality) is a drop of Water"
..............................................................................
There's some accurate perspective.
Yall decide. 🙂
Originally posted by Southern_RebelThe problem I have with this is that the HOTI is supposed to be the power of the TOAA.
THOTI never was Toaa/god that draw the Comics. (as in the avatar in FF#511)
THOTI was what Toaa/god would be withIN Marvel's Space-Time in Comics.
Originally posted by Southern_RebelThe TOAA is the one who drew the Beyonder to begin with...
Toaa/god in the End: (HOTI arc) was Starlin/Milgrom
Toaa/god in Secret Wars II was Shooter/Milgrom.
Half the same ... half not.
Toaa/god in the End arc, made THOTI the ultimate power in Marvel.
(let's not forget that Classic Beyonder does NOT exist in This Marvel)
Toaa/god in Secret Wars made Beyonder "god" of "OUR" Universe,
in fact, "god" before "god" began Genesis. (as in the Bible)
That's right,
Shooter associated the Marvel Reality as "our" (mine and yours Universe)
Originally posted by Southern_Rebel
the TOAA retconned him...
and the TOAA could just tear the Beyonder up and throw him in a trash can...
and edit Marvel History to say that he never existed to begin with.
You're referring to the actual Oaa/god (artists/writers) which Thanos was not.
Originally posted by Southern_RebelIf Thanos had the power of the TOAA...
then it seems to me that his power would be well above what Beyonder had.
That's She Hulk's world. 😂
Originally posted by Southern_RebelHowever, some say that the pre-retcon Beyonder also that the power of the writers...if that is the case...then, this would just be a stalemate of equal powers.
But technically speaking, (based on Shooter's official statements)
Beyonder was something greater.
But I can live with them stalemating. (I respect them both)
Originally posted by Southern_Rebel
I fail to see how the Beyonder could be above the power of the TOAA.
Originally posted by Sundipped
Right MJJ can beat him but I'm wondering who coined Shuma as omnipotent anyway. Musta been Wikipedia. If Strange can go to his dimension and defeat him by absorbing his own mystical energy then he is far from omnipotent.
Kubik & Kosmos were coined Omnipotent On Panel,
and they are levels below Celestials, so ... there ya go friend.
There are levels of Infinity/Omnipotence in Marvel.
Confirmed by Dr Strange as well.
🙂
Originally posted by Southern_RebelYou do agree that the TOAA(Marvel) created Classic Beyonder..
and therefore is more powerful, right?
Thanos was the Supreme Being (power of Toaa/god) withIN the Marvel Reality.
And yes, the real Toaa/god would stomp Beyonder with little effort.
(all it takes is tearing his page up, like you suggested earlier)
In fact, it's inconsequential putting any character against the real deal.
Originally posted by Southern_RebelIf Thanos had TOAA's power, then how could the Beyonder be above that?
Originally posted by Mr Master
Thanos was not Toaa/god
(artists/writers outside the Marvel Reality represented by avatars)Thanos was the Supreme Being (power of Toaa/god) withIN the Marvel Reality.
And yes, the real Toaa/god would stomp Beyonder with little effort.
(all it takes is tearing his page up, like you suggested earlier)
In fact, it's inconsequential putting any character against the real deal.I finalized my reasons at a stalemate,
and I gave you my reasons in my other response to your earlier post.
Not sure if it's satisfactory but that's how I see it.
I understand where you are coming from. I do disagree with the way that Marvel portrayed the Beyonder...if he was in fact meant to be the Biblical God. If Beyonder was God...then He could've blinked all opposition out of existence with just a mere thought.....including the Molecule Man....there never would have been a fight. However, you can't sell comics without any drama...so, I suppose that's why the Molecule Man appeared to be a challenge for the Beyonder.
Originally posted by Southern_RebelI understand where you are coming from.
I do disagree with the way that Marvel portrayed the Beyonder...
if he was in fact meant to be the Biblical God.
If Beyonder was God...
then He could've blinked all opposition out of existence with just a mere thought.....
including the Molecule Man....there never would have been a fight.
Imo,
this means Beyonder was "God" unto himself,
while the actual biblical "God" went ahead and created Marvel, lol.
Then Beyonder noticed "God's" creation (the Marvel Universe)
which was like a drop of water in comparison with the Ocean Beyonder encompassed.
Which is insane either way. 😂
Originally posted by Southern_RebelHowever, you can't sell comics without any drama...so,
I suppose that's why the Molecule Man appeared to be a challenge for the Beyonder.
But hey, including that PIS, helped make SS I, the best selling arc ever.
Originally posted by Southern_RebelIf I recall correctly, Beyonder also weakened himself.
I understand where you are coming from. I do disagree with the way that Marvel portrayed the Beyonder...if he was in fact meant to be the Biblical God. If Beyonder was God...then He could've blinked all opposition out of existence with just a mere thought.....including the Molecule Man....there never would have been a fight. However, you can't sell comics without any drama...so, I suppose that's why the Molecule Man appeared to be a challenge for the Beyonder.
Haha! So full of irony, no offence.
You've convinced the entire board that the heart had greater power, and now you're trying to tell them the opposite as they've learned.
To me Beyonder was an interesting character, because unlike other omnipotent or nigh-omnipotent beings he was actually interesting to read about. It was like reading about yourself with omnipotence, he basicly did everything one would do with that power.
Oh well, didn't Molecule man say after Beyonder defeated him that the Beyonder was to Molecule man as Molecule man was to Captain America?
Anyway, I've always seen his as a fictional avatar of the author. Shooter made him that way, and the Beyonder only got depowered because Shooter left Marvel.
But then again, wasn't Molecule man more powerful than the entire host of cosmic combinded?
Originally posted by AstnerHaha! ...Haha! So full of irony, no offence.
You've convinced the entire board that the heart had greater power,
and now you're trying to tell them the opposite as they've learned.
Originally posted by Mr MasterBarring pis, Beyonder wins.
At best, (being generous) THOTI stalemates him.
Before I'd given it to THOTI,
but recent revelations (to me at-least) by Jim Shooter,
taught me Beyonder was more than I ever imagined.
Oh, and I have proof, just in case.
Originally posted by AstnerTo me Beyonder was an interesting character,
because unlike other omnipotent or nigh-omnipotent beings he was actually interesting to read about. It was like reading about yourself with omnipotence, he basicly did everything one would do with that power.
Originally posted by AstnerOh well, didn't Molecule man say after Beyonder defeated him that the Beyonder was to Molecule man as Molecule man was to Captain America?
Originally posted by AstnerAnyway, I've always seen his as a fictional avatar of the author. Shooter made him that way, and the Beyonder only got depowered because Shooter left Marvel.
note* (visit first page) 🙂
Originally posted by AstnerBut then again,
wasn't Molecule man more powerful than the entire host of cosmic combinded?
Originally posted by King KandyActually that isn't true on this forum.
We have rules like PIS and SMvFL that put logic on the same level as feats.
But if anyone is gonna tell me Thanos/THOTI was not the omnipotent Supreme Being,
based on logic that's impossible to adhere to,
that is, if you wanna make an arc that last more than Two panels,
(like Thanos acquiring said power, Thanos blinks, arc over)
then I don't wanna hear it, unless it's stated by Marvel.
Originally posted by Astner
Oh well, didn't Molecule man say after Beyonder defeated him that the Beyonder was to Molecule man as Molecule man was to Captain America?
Originally posted by Mr Master
Correct.
Originally posted by King Kandy
Yeah.
But i'd say levels of infinity could legitimatly be called bad writing/PIS.
Marvel's claim of levels of Infinity wasn't made up by Marvel though,
it's actually based on a real theorem from the real world created by Georg Cantor.
This theorem has been widely accepted as a legitimate theorem since 1891:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor%27s_theorem
Originally posted by King Kandy
The argument could be made.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Marvel's claim of levels of Infinity wasn't made up by Marvel though,
it's actually based on a real theorem from the real world created by Georg Cantor.
This theorem has been widely accepted as a legitimate theorem since 1891:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor%27s_theorem
You'd become famous in the real world,
because it'd be like challenging the theorem of Calculus.
