Originally posted by Mr Masteroic. so that post was supposed to be scary to the peoples reading it, right?
😂 Nah, I'm just letting it be known to haters,
to bring it on to the debates, I'm just being passionate about it,
cause unprovoked hatin towards me really drives me.I consider that snakish, nothing better than to step on a serpent's head.
👆 Right on friend.
😎
Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
QUESTION:How in the f*ck do you guys sit here, and argue about basically the same thing for many months?
I can't even argue about the same thing for more than two days... and have an extremely hard time continuing the same discussion the next day.Dat's dedication.
try ridalin. clear up that A.D.D. almost right away. 🙂
Originally posted by leonidasdebating whether or not 616 is a multiverse needs to be done somewhere else so i'll refrain from getting into it. but NOT accepting 616 as a multiverse leads to all sorts of complications.
Can't be sure of all things, but of this,
I'm absolutely positive.
This is from the Marvel official Handbook 2006:
"A Universe is a SINGLE-Dimension Reality, such as Earth 616,
the Mainstream Marvel Universe.
The Multiverse ...
is the collection of Alternate Dimensions with a similar nature and Universal hierarchy.
Earth 616 and Alternates seen in the Marvel Universe
(which include being like the Watcher, Eternity etc) are withIN the SAME Multiverse.
Realms LACKING this hierarchy of Power are OUTSIDE of the Multiverse.
The Realms with a Multiverse are divided into Divergent Earths,
who share a common history and Diverge at a specific point,
and Alternate Earths,
who are similar, but posses many inherent differences"
......................................................................................................
That say it all, but the 2007 GLossary of definitions is more technical:
......................................................................................................
Earth 616: (616 Universe)
"Core Continuum designation given to the Prime Earth of the Marvel Universe,
Reality from which most Alternate Earths derive"
......................................................................................................
Multiverse: (group of alternate/divergent/parallel UniverseS)
"Group of Alternate UniverseS containing the same Hierarchy,
including Eternity, Infinity and the Watchers"
......................................................................................................
Alternate Earth: (Alternate Universe)
"A World resembling Earth which coexist with Earth-616 in another Dimensional Space"
......................................................................................................
Divergent Earth: (Divergent Universe)
"Alternate Earth which was once parallel to Earth-616,
until a change altered how it's history unfolded."
......................................................................................................
Parallel World: (Parallel Universe)
"A World that exists in another Dimension
whose Reality never diverged from but is parallel to Reality Earth-616"
......................................................................................................
So as you can see,
Earth-616 (or the 616 Universe) is a SINGLE Reality, nothing more.
The Multiverse is made up of Alternate/Divergent/Parallel entire standalone UniverseS.
You're a reasonable man, so I'm sure you'll agree from now on and forever,
616 is a Universe, and never was a Multiverse.
On Panel I have the Beyonder in Secret Wars II stating this,
and Uatu from Dr Strange #21 stating the same thing.
Originally posted by Mr Master
THOTI defeated the LT.Beyonder defeated Molecule Man who was MORE powerful than the LT.
🙂
I understand that the Molecule Man was more powerful than the LT during Secret Wars. However, would pre-retcon man be more powerful than the present day LT? The LT governs all of Marvel now...including the former Beyond Realm...and the LT has had some awesome feats since then. Thanos defeated this seemingly more powerful LT. Would pre-retcon Molecule Man be able to defeat the "present" LT...now that it has been established that the LT is second only to the TOAA?
Originally posted by Southern_RebelGood question....I think current Lt would defeat preretcon MM.
I understand that the Molecule Man was more powerful than the LT during Secret Wars. However, would pre-retcon man be more powerful than the present day LT? The LT governs all of Marvel now...including the former Beyond Realm...and the LT has had some awesome feats since then. Thanos defeated this seemingly more powerful LT. Would pre-retcon Molecule Man be able to defeat the "present" LT...now that it has been established that the LT is second only to the TOAA?
Originally posted by quanchi112
Good question....I think current Lt would defeat preretcon MM.
Yeah, I'm just trying to gauge how powerful the pre-retcon MM was. If we have a stalemate in this match...and it is clear that they Beyonder was much more powerful than the MM...then, it stands to reason that THOTI would defeat pre-retcon MM also.
I understand that Mr. Master was going strictly by on panel FEATS...and that the Beyonder defeating MM was much more impressive than Thanos beating the LT. I'm just curious as to whether the LT as he is shown TODAY....would actually be a greater feat for Thanos with the HOTI. I consider the LT as of the present to be more powerful than the MM. If this is true...then it would make Thanos' feat more impressive.
However, this just boils down to personal opinion anyways. Some people will say Beyonder defeating the MM was greater...others will say that Thanos' beating the LT was greater. I guess to each their own.
Originally posted by Southern_RebelThe way I look at it is different. Thanos handled the opposition at once easier than the Beyonder handled his opposition.
Yeah, I'm just trying to gauge how powerful the pre-retcon MM was. If we have a stalemate in this match...and it is clear that they Beyonder was much more powerful than the MM...then, it stands to reason that THOTI would defeat pre-retcon MM also.I understand that Mr. Master was going strictly by on panel FEATS...and that the Beyonder defeating MM was much more impressive than Thanos beating the LT. I'm just curious as to whether the LT as he is shown TODAY....would actually be a greater feat for Thanos with the HOTI. I consider the LT as of the present to be more powerful than the MM. If this is true...then it would make Thanos' feat more impressive.
However, this just boils down to personal opinion anyways. Some people will say Beyonder defeating the MM was greater...others will say that Thanos' beating the LT was greater. I guess to each their own.
Originally posted by Mindset
LT isn't written more powerful, he just has had more appearances.
Well, there are still paradoxes...that, I guess, really can't be answered. Marvel today consists of the multiverse that existed before Secret Wars...and the former Beyond Realm....which wasn't part of the Marvel omniverse before Secret Wars. If the HOTI was able to affect ALL of this area recently....would the HOTI have been able to work successfully against this same AREA(Beyond Realm plus the mainstream Marvel multiverse) if the HOTI was to be used against the Beyonder during Secret Wars? The TOAA would not have had jurisdiction, technically speaking, over the Beyond Realm prior to Secret Wars because it wasn't part of Marvel.
Now, I understand that the TOAA wrote the comic book...and it would have been part of his creation in the REAL WORLD...but, on panel, the TOAA wouldn't have governed such a territory supposedly. So, would the HOTI have been limited in scope if it was used during the Secret Wars? When Thanos used it more recently...he became ALL with the COSMOS(former Beyond Realm plus the original Marvel Multiverse). If Thanos would have used it back then...he would've only been ALL with an Infinitely smaller portion of time and space(the original Marvel Multiverse minus the Beyond Realm). So, I guess my question is...since the Marvel Omniverse was so much SMALLER back then(a drop of water to the Beyonder's Ocean)....would the HOTI be even as powerful as it would be today?
On the same token...the LT is an omnipresent and virtually omnipotent being within ALL of Marvel. Since Secret Wars...the LT's omnipresence and omnipotence has grown to consume the former Beyond Realm as well....making the LT...seemingly more powerful. This is why I say that the LT would be more powerful than the pre-retcon Molecule Man.
I might be just thinking too hard...but the more I think about it...the more paradoxes I see.
