That Padawan you keep lowballing mastered lightsaber combat by thirteen.
Defeated a notorious Bounty Hunter that stalemated Jinn when said Padawan was thirteen.
Is put over as the fastest person on an entire planet.
Moved so fast that he surpassed physical blurs alongside two Jedi Masters while thirteen.
He was counted among the greats with people like Adi Gallia, QGJ, Eeth Koth, and more while still a Padawan.
So quit lowballing Kenobi as if he was a mook yeah?
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
That Padawan you keep low-balling mastered lightsaber combat by thirteen.
DolfZigglerStardust : Maul was bisected by a Padawan
FatedMollyPillz : Hey! Don't lowball Kenobi. He's not a mook, yeah?
If you're not going to represent my argument properly, how about not addressing it at all, yeah? And you might want to tell me what aspect of 'lightsaber combat' has been mastered or who casts judgement on his aptitude? Is it the saber-to-saber combat side considered too outdated to be popularized? Or is it the type of combat focused on contemporary weapons, like blasters? I'm thinking the latter considering the humiliation Dooku (an actual duelist) gave his older and more experienced self. Kudos for not getting slaughtered by the droids on Geonosis (spelling).
Defeated a notorious Bounty Hunter that stalemated Jinn when said Padawan was thirteen, Is put over as the fastest person on an entire planet.
First point, you're going have to tell me who that is. Second, I imagine this isn't a planet of trained Force sensitives we're talking about... right.
Moved so fast that he surpassed physical blurs alongside two Jedi Masters while thirteen.
He surpassed physical blurs alongside two masters? It helps me if your points are more coherent. But if you don't want me to expose their superficial nature , then by all means continue an typing. Otherwise, I Imagine we have a generic speed feat that has been matched by novices. Not that it's the be-all-end-all of combat either. If the TPM novel is to be trusted, Obi Wan was faster than Qui-gon, but not as skilled.
He was counted among the greats with people like Adi Gallia, QGJ, Eeth Koth, and more while still a Padawan.
So basically, no one special.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
He also seems to have forgotten about that one Jedi Master named Qui-Gon. mmm
I don't see much 'clowning' in their fight.
Clowning would be what Kenobi did to Opress, the latter having back-up from his brother. Or what a blinded Kanan did after a few blade-clashes with Maul.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Depends on how literally the term is being used. 🙂
There is not a sound interpretation that can rationalize a "clowning" here. Unless you think Maul wanted to get slapped in the face and dropped from a 5 story height.
On the other hand, he eclipsed Qui-Gon's ability, and Jinn didn't stand a chance.
And let's go back full circle. How does this make him better than Kasim? Secondly, standing a chance is exactly what Qui Gon did. And given the ludicrous circumstances that Obi Wan reclaimed, there is certainly room for most everybody to have "a chance" against Maul.
Kas'im, a supposed blademaster who's dominated saber combat, got killed by a PoD Bane that although talented, was no where near as skilled as Maul is and had barely begun his training as Sith.
First off, Maul defeated both Jinn and Kenobi individually, and only together they could manage to pose a threat to him. Him getting cut in half is a result of overconfidence and cockiness and nothing more, a mistake we never see him make again.
Maul was also stated to have become more powerful after TPM, during TCW. Every time they duel [with the exception of Maul and Savage vs. Kenobi], he has the edge over Kenobi and has him on the go, even with the aid of Ventress.
Kenobi was one of the most [if not the most] proficient Soresu user and one of the top tier combatants of the PT. Only the likes of Dooku, Mace and Yoda are above him, which speaks a lot of his skills. The fact that Maul is = or slightly above him should easily indicate someone like Kas'im is considerably below him. What has Kas'im done? What are his feats? What are his accolades, other than being the best swordmaster out of a mediocre Order of Sith?
Originally posted by Petrus
Kas'im, a supposed blademaster who's dominated saber combat, got killed by a PoD Bane that although talented, was no where near as skilled as Maul
Which is nothing other than a poor attempt at lowballing. At least in the context of PoD, the principles of lightsaber combat, and what makes a master duelist are nicely defined. I don't think it needs repeating. POD Bane was winning through his superior force connection, something he has in leagues above the Maul. And when it comes to Kasim and Maul, bane is more powerful than either.
Maul is and had barely begun his training as Sith.
"You're training is complete, they won't stand a chance against you". Warning - quote accuracy. Regardless of semantics, the meaning is correct. So you are wrong as per Sidious' own words. Not that Maul was ever trained as a proper 'sith' given that he can barely fend off sparkly lightning bolts, and wasn't worthy of producing them. Furthermore, as his training was supposedly complete, it's logical to assume sidious wouldn't teach him anything more than the limited set of tasks he's been bread for. Maul is really more of a dark jedi, than a 'true sith'. A tool to be used and then disposed of.
First off, Maul defeated both Jinn and Kenobi individually, and only together they could manage to pose a threat to him. Him getting cut in half is a result of overconfidence and cockiness and nothing more, a mistake we never see him make again.
It was certainly a mistake on Mauls part, rather than some miraculous godsend for the Jedi learner. But it really doesn't look good. Either he chose not to react to Kenobi, or simply hadn't the ability to. You can pick one, but either option musters his skill with a stinking log. From an out-of-universe perspective, it's slapstick writing. But I put it down to the philosophy of Juyo. And his poor defense has creeped up more than one time since.
Maul was also stated to have become more powerful after TPM, during TCW.
Bring forth the quote, the source's name and I will examine it from there. Logically, halving one's midi-chlorian count would make one weaker. So I can't see how a power increase is possible.
Every time they duel [with the exception of Maul and Savage vs. Kenobi], he has the edge over Kenobi and has him on the go, even with the aid of Ventress.
The relationship between Maul and Kenobi is capricious. Regardless, Kenobi is probably better. He likely grew at faster rate than Maul during the time of, and after TCW. And it makes perfect sense, Maul was one of the only beings in the PT to be trained for actual combat with live opponents. You can't say the same for Kenobi, who was travelling around acting as some sort of 'galactic sherif' until the clone wars. Maul then looses potential via bisection. Capping his fantasies short. He admits he can't beat Vader in his 50's while Kenobi is nigh-stalemating him.
Kenobi was one of the most [if not the most] proficient Soresu user and one of the top tier combatants of the PT. Only the likes of Dooku, Mace and Yoda are above him, which speaks a lot of his skills. The fact that Maul is = or slightly above him should easily indicate someone like Kas'im is considerably below him. What has Kas'im done? What are his feats? What are his accolades, other than being the best swordmaster out of a mediocre Order of Sith?
And how are you measuring duelists from different eras? There aren't any comparisons between Kasim or Mace Windu, so claiming one is better than the other is just baseless speculation. You are right, Kasim was the top-dog of his era, as was Mace. The difference being that Mace lives in an era that doesn't expect saber-to-saber confrontations - or really any confrontation at all. The routine practice for Jedi of that time, was one of diplomatic character.
You do realize that much of Dooku's time as a Jedi was spent solving non-volatile conflict, no? A lot, if not most of the Count's renown came from being a political idealist. He was skilled at resolving conflict throughout the galaxy such as the Sevarcos Dispute of 52 BBY. Which was one among many missions that required no actual fighting whatsoever. Though, his first real hint of action was against the Mandalorians on Galidran. And of course, Jango Fett was humiliating Jedi left and right with his bare hands; demonstrating how unprepared the PT era were for any sort of combat.
So it's no wonder that duelists like Mace and Dooku can stand out among their peers. They didn't exactly have much competition. The brotherhood may not be much compared the Sith of old or the banite line. But Maul wasn't part of either. The brotherhood were almost certainly stronger than the Jedi during the rise of the empire, however. The repression of Jarkai not withstanding.
Originally posted by Petrus
Kas'im, a supposed blademaster who's dominated saber combat, got killed by a PoD Bane that although talented, was no where near as skilled as Maul is and had barely begun his training as Sith.
Bane was skilled and experienced enough to know every move Kas'im could possibly try to do with his double-bladed style, counter them all and seize the advantage. In terms of skill that's all you need to beat someone. Note that Kas'im had mastered all forums and spent decades perfecting all of them. So I fail to see what Maul could do to Kas'im that would be more skillful and effective than what Bane could do.
Yeah, he should have had a sense of fair play and instead invented a move on the spot that's more effective than the techniques he spent decades creating to maximise effectiveness, to defeat an opponents who's superior to him in strength, power and speed and knows all he can do while getting reamed in an enclosed space. Instead of just taking advantage of a weakness he knew he could easily exploit.
Bane knew everything Kas'im could do with that weapon and how to counter it, he wasn't vastly less skilled.