Punisher vs Wolverine

Originally posted by Soljer
Fast reflexes make him faster than full auto? Interesting.

Oh, the punisher is precognitive now. Got it.

Precognition and the ability to pull the trigger over nine hundred times a minute. I'm following you.

Didn't you already say this? Was there really a need for a fourth step, could these last two not have been condensed?

Allow me to round a little.

Logan's about five foot tall, but really broad. Let's say he's a chode at three foot wide. Ignoring the fact that his body isn't a rectangle, that's about fifteen square feet of area the punisher'd have to fill. A nine millimeter has a cross sectional area of around 0.000678126356 square feet. Meaning, it'd take about twenty two thousand bullets to 'fill in an area' of Logan's size. We'd better hope he's walking down a pretty thin hallway.

Further, even at the Punisher's AWESOME trigger speed, surpassing that of full auto assault rifles, it'd take him around twenty four minutes to fire that many bullets.

When did Frank get ahold of such awesome reality warping powers? I wanna read this arc!

😐.....

😬....

🙂.....

😆.....

hysterical

Originally posted by Master-Borg
I would have to disagree. I personally like his portrayals of superheroes.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
It's not quite over the top, and has a very streets feel to it, which is perfect for guys like Logan.

(recalling that Ennis wrote Punisher Kills the MU..) I'm not surprised.
- not sure what you mean...but I had nothing to do with that thread

Yup. Punisher taking out people like Hulk and using Spidey like an idiot... totally not over the top at all.. 😐
- don't know about taking out Hulk, but taking out Spidey and Logan is well within Punisher's abilities.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
don't know about taking out Hulk, but taking out Spidey and Logan is well within Punisher's abilities.

By and Large? ❌

...........Logan was not trying............punisher had one sided prep...........punisher was trying to kill wolverine..............Punisher was so messed up by the end of the fight he was not even able to get off the ground...............

and there was a lame bit in the story itself: logan steps on THREE grenades and his clothes are barely torn. that's bad writing. not to mention all his wounds were magically healed in a matter of seconds 😬

and the only reason frank was "messed up" was because of the adamantium headbutt that he got from logan.....and the subsequent judo toss out of the second floor of a building.

and i was under the impression that they just ran into each other. why else would they fight in a mall with all those people in it? i'm asking though 😕

also frank wasn't trying to kill wolverine. otherwise he'd have done something other than stabbing him in the foot. all he really wanted to do was put him down.

@jinzin and soljer: i think phantom's point holds that if a regular thug can shoot logan then so can frank who is by and far one of the best gunmen in marvel 😬

~Sado

Its possible for Punisher to take this considering he has 1hr. prep and he will have that wearhouse rigged with so many traps wolverine will have barely any place to go, and frank will be no where near wolverine when he is getting lit up by bombs and shrapnal, and seeing as how wolverine cannot always heal fast enough before he bleeds out he could loose this. I give it to frank 7/10. If there was no prep wolvie 8/10. Frank will put up a good fight, better than most think, check out War Journal forget what number 7 or 8 or 9 can't remember. Punisher puts up a good fight, pretty even.

Originally posted by Sado22
i seriously doubt logan was NOT trying. frank had him relatively hard pressed in that fight. he knocked him down a couple of times himself, soaked some nasty damage (he had his dominant arm impaled), was dragging him across the floor for a few seconds, managed to tie him up, hit him with a sledgehammer, hit him with a bat, blow him up with three grenades. logan only managed to really put frank down when he did the adamantium special headbutt. i can post the whole fight here for people if they want (but it'll be a pain 🙁 )

and there was a lame bit in the story itself: logan steps on THREE grenades and his clothes are barely torn. that's bad writing. not to mention all his wounds were magically healed in a matter of seconds 😬

and the only reason frank was "messed up" was because of the adamantium headbutt that he got from logan.....and the subsequent judo toss out of the second floor of a building.

and i was under the impression that they just ran into each other. why else would they fight in a mall with all those people in it? i'm asking though 😕

also frank wasn't trying to kill wolverine. otherwise he'd have done something other than stabbing him in the foot. all he really wanted to do was put him down.

@jinzin and soljer: i think phantom's point holds that if a regular thug can shoot logan then so can frank who is by and far one of the best gunmen in marvel 😬

~Sado

Logan was not trying.

His point doesn't hold. But you obviously missed what that point was anyways.

Originally posted by jgiant
Its possible for Punisher to take this considering he has 1hr. prep and he will have that wearhouse rigged with so many traps wolverine will have barely any place to go, and frank will be no where near wolverine when he is getting lit up by bombs and shrapnal, and seeing as how wolverine cannot always heal fast enough before he bleeds out he could loose this. I give it to frank 7/10. If there was no prep wolvie 8/10. Frank will put up a good fight, better than most think, check out War Journal forget what number 7 or 8 or 9 can't remember. Punisher puts up a good fight, pretty even.

I'm under the impression that if Wolverine was taking this coutiously he wouldn't be walking into booby traps left and right... Wolverine's a high ranking government agent with ninja training he could once againe easily turn the tables on Frank in a game of cat and mouse.

With an hour of prep Punisher can certainly make his position more formidable than most, but I don't see him swinging the majority here. Wolverine's skills, heightened senses, toped with his training are just too big of roadblocks for Punisher to overcome imo. But you're right that it would be a good fight either way.

Why is everyone ignoring what prep is?

It doesn't give you access to the battlefield early; you just get to stock up/plan for the opposition.

Logan was not trying

His point doesn't hold. But you obviously missed what that point was anyways.

seriously people if you think that holding a gun and pulling the trigger is all to shooting then you guys are wrong. the prime difference between a thug with a gun and a pro is that trained that a pro is good at:
-predicting where the opponent is going to move
-predicting HOW the opponent is going to move
-pushing the enemy into quarters you want him to go
-and blocking places where you don't want him to go

an average thug like didn't know these. Frank does. in fact, "welcome back, frank" clearly shows how well versed he is in guns and shooting. and Punisher armory shows how well he can predict where a person is going to go and how he's going to do it.

to add to this is his sniper training which SPECIALIZES in this.

~Sado

Originally posted by Sado22
i think otherwise.
and one of the main plotholes was his magical ungrazing grenades he was STEPPING ON.

his point holds....and the proof is you ducking it with your attempts at humor.

seriously people if you think that holding a gun and pulling the trigger is all to shooting then you guys are wrong. the prime difference between a thug with a gun and a pro is that trained that a pro is good at:
-predicting where the opponent is going to move
-predicting HOW the opponent is going to move
-pushing the enemy into quarters you want him to go
-and blocking places where you don't want him to go

an average thug like didn't know these. Frank does. in fact, "welcome back, frank" clearly shows how well versed he is in guns and shooting. and Punisher armory shows how well he can predict where a person is going to go and how he's going to do it.

to add to this is his sniper training which SPECIALIZES in this.

~Sado

Then you think wrong, he wasn't trying.

And his point doesn't hold.

You're arguing something else (because you fell for his red herring), and you're wrong about that too.

Originally posted by Sado22
i seriously doubt logan was NOT trying. frank had him relatively hard pressed in that fight. he knocked him down a couple of times himself, soaked some nasty damage (he had his dominant arm impaled), was dragging him across the floor for a few seconds, managed to tie him up, hit him with a sledgehammer, hit him with a bat, blow him up with three grenades. logan only managed to really put frank down when he did the adamantium special headbutt. i can post the whole fight here for people if they want (but it'll be a pain 🙁 )

Really? Becauses the fact he could have killed Punisher a number of times, but instead did not. The fact he never even tried to uses lethal forces and the fact he kept simply walking to Punisher and turn his back to him like he was nothing seem to heavily imply he was not taking Punisher seriously or trying to kill him. Well it was made quite clear Punisher was trying to kill him and was desperate.

Originally posted by Sado22
and there was a lame bit in the story itself: logan steps on THREE grenades and his clothes are barely torn. that's bad writing. not to mention all his wounds were magically healed in a matter of seconds 😬

Originally posted by Sado22
and the only reason frank was "messed up" was because of the adamantium headbutt that he got from logan.....and the subsequent judo toss out of the second floor of a building.

Actually they were on the first floor. It just high off the ground. Also if Logan really hit Punsiher as hard as he could you really think punchers skull would not crack in to?

Also how does this change the fact Logan walked away fine and Punisher was on the ground helpless.

Originally posted by Sado22
and i was under the impression that they just ran into each other. why else would they fight in a mall with all those people in it? i'm asking though 😕

You may wish to re read the issue again then.

If you read the text there conversation, Punisher came after Wolverine. Meaning one sided prep.

Originally posted by Sado22
also frank wasn't trying to kill wolverine. otherwise he'd have done something other than stabbing him in the foot. all he really wanted to do was put him down.

He go wtf dropped. Tried to uses guns, both of which Logan disarmed him of. He stabbed him in the foot to buy him self time. It was clearly evident. Not to mention he throw grenades at him, used a shot gun and stabbed Logan in the throat. Not to mention he went after wolverine, so the issue completely contradicts your statement above,

Originally posted by Sado22
@jinzin and soljer: i think phantom's point holds that if a regular thug can shoot logan then so can frank who is by and far one of the best gunmen in marvel 😬

~Sado

When he was immortal he wins, now I think he COULD lose but not entirely sure.

Originally posted by Soljer
Why is everyone ignoring what prep [b]is?

It doesn't give you access to the battlefield early; you just get to stock up/plan for the opposition. [/B]

Really? Becauses the fact he could have killed Punisher a number of times, but instead did not. The fact he never even tried to uses lethal forces and the fact he kept simply walking to Punisher and turn his back to him like he was nothing seem to heavily imply he was not taking Punisher seriously or trying to kill him. Well it was made quite clear Punisher was trying to kill him and was desperate.

and here is a list of things logan did to frank:
-picked him up from the legs and spun around smashing frank's head into a large metal gong
-impaled his arm clean with all three of his blades
-tried to claw his head/body on several occassions
-tossed him out of a window from a two story buidling (hurts)

seems like he was trying to me, man. especially considering that not only is he stronger than frank but that frank has no HF or other kinds of powers.

frank was desperate for obvious reasons. for one he had nothing on him to kill frank. and second, i hereby declare this issue complete example of HORRIBLE WRITING, logan wank and being completely ignorant of Frank Caslte.
why? why would frank come after logan when he said in the his own series that he doesn't care about them (punisher volume4, confedery of dunces, last issue)? why would frank come with uzi's and handguns against logan when he KNOWS they wont work on him and said himself in their fights that he knows gunshots wont work? why would he come after him when he figured out last time that luring logan out was the better option (confedery of dunces)? and i'm pretty sure fighting in a mall isn't frank's idea of prep?

That be the artiest fault or simply regulation, nothing to do with the writer.

Actually they were on the first floor. It just high off the ground. Also if Logan really hit Punsiher as hard as he could you really think punchers skull would not crack in to?

Also how does this change the fact Logan walked away fine and Punisher was on the ground helpless.

If you read the text there conversation, Punisher came after Wolverine. Meaning one sided prep.

Come on your better then this man.
He go wtf dropped. Tried to uses guns, both of which Logan disarmed him of. He stabbed him in the foot to buy him self time. It was clearly evident. Not to mention he throw grenades at him, used a shot gun and stabbed Logan in the throat. Not to mention he went after wolverine, so the issue completely contradicts your statement above,

~Sado

Originally posted by Soljer
Why is everyone ignoring what prep [b]is?

It doesn't give you access to the battlefield early; you just get to stock up/plan for the opposition. [/B]

And how is this thread still going on? Do I need to start creating picture montages of Wolverine being ko'ed from bullets? Do I? DO I!??! Cuz I'll do it!!!!111one11

😂

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

And how is this thread still going on? Do I need to start creating picture montages of Wolverine being ko'ed from bullets? Do I? DO I!??! Cuz I'll do it!!!!111one11

😂

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm pretty sure the thread starter decides what the prep entails and considering Alf's arguments regarding prepping the warehouse, yeah, he gets to have access to the battlefield early. If you're a Punisher fan, you know, Punisher ALWAYS preps his battlefields. Doesn't matter if it's a mansion backyard, a missile silo, a prison, a desert area... he always preps.

And how is this thread still going on? Do I need to start creating picture montages of Wolverine being ko'ed from bullets? Do I? DO I!??! Cuz I'll do it!!!!111one11

😂

A montage littered with circumstantial evidence, that would be outright nullified with two Wolverine arcs nevermind his entire career?

I mean, if you feel like waisting your time.

Originally posted by Soljer
Fast reflexes make him faster than full auto? Interesting.

What are you talking about you still have to pull thr trigger, somebody with slower reflexes would take longer to pull the trigger.

Even if it is full-auto you still have to keep a bead on the person Punishers faster reflexes would enable him to do that while other people would even be able to keep an eye on Wolverine and characters of the like.

Originally posted by Soljer

Oh, the punisher is precognitive now. Got it.

Stop taking the piss. I posted the scan of Punisher stating the he studies people before he goes into combat. Obvpoulsy this is how slower characters manage to hit faster characters im not going to elaborate.

Originally posted by Soljer

Allow me to round a little.

Logan's about five foot tall, but really broad. Let's say he's a chode at three foot wide. Ignoring the fact that his body isn't a rectangle, that's about fifteen square feet of area the punisher'd have to fill. A nine millimeter has a cross sectional area of around 0.000678126356 square feet. Meaning, it'd take about twenty two thousand bullets to 'fill in an area' of Logan's size. We'd better hope he's walking down a pretty thin hallway.

Further, even at the Punisher's AWESOME trigger speed, surpassing that of full auto assault rifles, it'd take him around twenty four minutes to fire that many bullets.

When did Frank get ahold of such awesome reality warping powers? I wanna read this arc!

Well your assuming that I meant he would completely fill an area, which im not so thats irrelevant.

Originally posted by jinzin
😐

Dumb.... I'm not comparing Punisher's skill to the skill of five random gunmen.... You are, that's dumb.

I'm saying that Punisher aiming a gun and firing it is not the equivolent of Wolverine being shot by five, continuiously for an undisclosed period of time... But you think it is and that's all that matters. 😉

dur