Originally posted by peejaydThat is only one verse out of many books and different views. I have read the Bible and many other religious doctrines but how can you expect a non-believer to have the faith of your religion when it is so fractured and divided?
"For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and the love which ye showed toward his name, in that ye ministered unto the saints, and still do minister."
Hebrews 6:10* then tell me what you think of this verse... 😉
Originally posted by peejaydIf God is truly love then why would he require so many things of his followers like worship? Do you not love your kids even if they don’t believe and live the way you think they should, shouldn’t love be unconditional and forgiving?
* read, do not interpret... by reading, you will not believe that God is not love...
Originally posted by Da Pittman
So all of those that would truly believe and love Christ with all their heart and soul but never have been exposed or hear of him would be doomed to an eternity of damnation just because of where they lived? As I have said before if the god of the Bible does truly exist then he is the most vindictive and cold hearted bastard that has ever existed and the idea that God is the essence of love is laughable to say the least.
As for God being a vindictive, cold hearted ******, that is your subjective judgment and nothing more. However, having been exposed to the biblical message about Jesus, it is a judgment you may one day modify.
Originally posted by Tim RoutNo it is based off of his "own words", I have been exposed to his "words" growing up and through many other experiences that have lead me to know what I know now. I would like you to name one person throughout time that have committed someone to eternal pain and suffering for all time just for what they believe in.
As for God being a vindictive, cold hearted ******, that is your subjective judgment and nothing more. However, having been exposed to the biblical message about Jesus, it is a judgment you may one day modify.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
That is only one verse out of many books and different views.
* discard different views... do not interpret, just read...
Originally posted by Da Pittman
I have read the Bible and many other religious doctrines
* if you really read the Bible, you will not say the statement above (that the passage i gave is only one verse out of many books)...
Originally posted by Da Pittman
but how can you expect a non-believer to have the faith of your religion when it is so fractured and divided?
* if you choose not to believe, that's your prerogative... however, if you want to believe, but just confused, i would be able to help you...
* Christianity being "fractured" is only your opinion, the Christianity in the Bible is not fractured...
* Christianity is not "divided"... what was divided was the religious denominations nowadays...
Originally posted by Da Pittman
If God is truly love then why would he require so many things of his followers like worship?
* there are many kinds of worship, and maybe it's not what you really think... i'll give an example:
"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service."
Romans 12:1
* if you keep your body clean & pure & holy, that is a form of worship... now, morally speaking, don't you want your body to be like that?
Originally posted by Da Pittman
Do you not love your kids even if they don’t believe and live the way you think they should, shouldn’t love be unconditional and forgiving?
* firstly, God does not want to force you to worship Him, that's why you have the power to choose, you have a free mind & heart...
* secondly, put it the other way around, if you love & respect your parents, don't you want to obey their wishes eventhough you really don't like it? for instance, you hate being the center of attraction & you mother wants you to play the piano in front of everyone?
Originally posted by Da Pittman
No it is based off of his "own words", I have been exposed to his "words" growing up and through many other experiences that have lead me to know what I know now.
* i think it's not based on God's words in the Bible... 😉
Originally posted by Da Pittman
No it is based off of his "own words", I have been exposed to his "words" growing up and through many other experiences that have lead me to know what I know now. I would like you to name one person throughout time that have committed someone to eternal pain and suffering for all time just for what they believe in.
I'm not sure I fully understand your response, so perhaps this answer is unsuitable. Nevertheless, if you are asking if anyone in history has ever condemned others to eternal punishment for disbelief, the answer is yes. His name is Yahweh. Refusing to believe in Jesus as one's Lord and Savior is a sin.
"He who believes in Him (Jesus) is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." [John 3:18/NASB]
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." [John 3:36/NASB]
Two things worth noting:
Firstly, those who do not believe in Jesus stand condemned already. The natural condition of the human soul is condemnation. Receiving eternal life from Jesus Christ is the remedy to our naturally fallen state.
Thus, God's condemnation goes beyond a person's disbelief; rather, the act of disbelief leaves a person right where he has always been -- under divine judgment.
Additionally, you will notice from the second citation that belief in Jesus equates with obedience to Jesus. While some translations do not render "obey" [see KJV, NIV], a literal reading is more consistent with the New American Standard Bible shown above. One cannot claim to be a disciple of Christ if one will not obey Christ [John 14:15].
So then, while refusing to believe in Jesus is a sin worthy of hell, it is not the only sin for which God condemns the unbelieving.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why does Tim Rout ignore that verse?
I ignore nothing, my friend. As I have stated previously, it is ungodly for Christians to engage in theological debate before unbelievers. As I have told my Arminian friend privately, I will not answer such challenges in this forum. If you would like, please feel free to join http://christianforums.com/ where we can discuss these issues at length.
Originally posted by Tim Rout
I ignore nothing, my friend. As I have stated previously, it is ungodly for Christians to engage in theological debate before unbelievers. As I have told my Arminian friend privately, I will not answer such challenges in this forum. If you would like, please feel free to join http://christianforums.com/ where we can discuss these issues at length.
Isn't it a Christian's duty to spread the word of God though? I believe you've said this yourself. How else could a "unbeliever" turn to the saving grace of Jesus almighty *hallelujah*, if a believer doesn't show him/her the path? Are missionaries "ungodly" then?
Originally posted by Tim Rout
I ignore nothing, my friend. As I have stated previously, it is ungodly for Christians to engage in theological debate before unbelievers. As I have told my Arminian friend privately, I will not answer such challenges in this forum. If you would like, please feel free to join http://christianforums.com/ where we can discuss these issues at length.
I don't want this to sound rude, but I was asking peejayd the question just to get his opinion. I do understand how you believe, but how peejayd believes is sometimes a mystery to me.
Originally posted by Robtard
Isn't it a Christian's duty to spread the word of God though? I believe you've said this yourself. How else could a "unbeliever" turn to the saving grace of Jesus almighty *hallelujah*, if a believer doesn't show him/her the path? Are missionaries "ungodly" then?
There are core doctrines that Christians are obligated to share freely with the unsaved. These are:
1. The doctrine of Scripture
2. The doctrine of God
3. The doctrine of humanity
4. The doctrine of sin
5. The doctrine of salvation
The fifth of these is especially pertinent to the process of evangelism. That said, Christians are forbidden to speak in a way that brings harm to those who listen [Ephesians 4:29]. Harmful speech can include, though is not limited to, public debates over secondary theological issues. In fact, the Apostle Paul warned that false teachers love to engage in such arguments.
"Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. Some false teachers may deny these things, but these are sound, wholesome teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ, and they are the foundation for a godly life. Anyone who teaches anything different is both conceited and ignorant. Such a person has an unhealthy desire to quibble over the meaning of words. This stirs up arguments ending in jealousy, fighting, slander, and evil suspicions." [1 Timothy 6:1-4/NLT]
Originally posted by Tim Rout
There are core doctrines that Christians are obligated to share freely with the unsaved. These are:1. The doctrine of Scripture
2. The doctrine of God
3. The doctrine of humanity
4. The doctrine of sin
5. The doctrine of salvationThe fifth of these is especially pertinent to the process of evangelism. That said, Christians are forbidden to speak in a way that brings harm to those who listen [Ephesians 4:29]. Harmful speech can include, though is not limited to, public debates over secondary theological issues. In fact, the Apostle Paul warned that false teachers love to engage in such arguments.
"Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. Some false teachers may deny these things, but these are sound, wholesome teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ, and they are the foundation for a godly life. Anyone who teaches anything different is both conceited and ignorant. Such a person has an unhealthy desire to quibble over the meaning of words. This stirs up arguments ending in jealousy, fighting, slander, and evil suspicions." [1 Timothy 6:1-4/NLT]
What a complete and total cop-out, shame on you, false prophet.
Originally posted by peejaydFirst off let’s make a few things clear.
* discard different views... do not interpret, just read...* if you really read the Bible, you will not say the statement above (that the passage i gave is only one verse out of many books)...
* if you choose not to believe, that's your prerogative... however, if you want to believe, but just confused, i would be able to help you...
* Christianity being "fractured" is only your opinion, the Christianity in the Bible is not fractured...
* Christianity is not "divided"... what was divided was the religious denominations nowadays...
* there are many kinds of worship, and maybe it's not what you really think... i'll give an example:
"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service."
Romans 12:1* if you keep your body clean & pure & holy, that is a form of worship... now, morally speaking, don't you want your body to be like that?
* firstly, God does not want to force you to worship Him, that's why you have the power to choose, you have a free mind & heart...
* secondly, put it the other way around, if you love & respect your parents, don't you want to obey their wishes eventhough you really don't like it? for instance, you hate being the center of attraction & you mother wants you to play the piano in front of everyone?
* i think it's not based on God's words in the Bible... 😉
Christ never wrote any passage or scripture so nothing in the Bible is his words.
Since I can’t read or write in the original text of the Bible I can not read how it is written only the translated version that have been passed down and rewritten over and over again.
With this verse “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service.” How do you get that you body has to be pure and clean? I don’t see any where in that text that says anything about this, this shows that even as you said read it word for word you keep adding in your own views and ideas.
Yes God does want you to worship him, plain and simple. If you do not believe and follow his tenants you will be dammed for all eternity to pain and suffering. Pretty cut and dry if you ask me and don’t even get me started on the whole “we have free will” crap.
Originally posted by Tim Rout
You know Robtard, when you tell a joke you should really put a 🙂 after it. Otherwise someone might inadvertently think you're sticking it to me, and no reasonable person would do that. Right?
Good idea for most people. But Robtard, I have to advise against it. The smiley just doesn't fit you.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't want this to sound rude, but I was asking peejayd the question just to get his opinion. I do understand how you believe, but how peejayd believes is sometimes a mystery to me.
* you know, the first thing/answer that came to my mind is, "ask him"... 😆
* what i believe is the Bible, that's why i stand firm on my belief that not everyone claiming to be a Christian is really a Christian... it has to be according to the Scriptures...
Originally posted by Da Pittman
First off let’s make a few things clear.Christ never wrote any passage or scripture so nothing in the Bible is his words.
* if you read the Bible, you will know that it is not Christ's mission to write... His mission is to preach and fulfill the will of His Father... and Christ is the One who commanded His disciples to write...
"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age. Amen."
Matthew 28:19-20
* but to be Biblically strict, Christ actually has an epistle according to Saint Paul...
"Ye are our epistle, written in our hearts, known and read of all men;
Being made manifest that ye are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in tables that are hearts of flesh."
II Corinthians 3:2-3
* which are the Christians in the Bible...
Originally posted by Da Pittman
Since I can’t read or write in the original text of the Bible I can not read how it is written only the translated version that have been passed down and rewritten over and over again.
* so? try King James Version, it's a very good translation...
Originally posted by Da Pittman
With this verse “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service.” How do you get that you body has to be pure and clean? I don’t see any where in that text that says anything about this, this shows that even as you said read it word for word you keep adding in your own views and ideas.
* own views and ideas? it's just common sense, my friend... if your body is holy, it is pure and clean... it is not dirty and evil... but it's still not my own interpretation, read this:
"Having therefore these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."
II Corinthians 7:1
"That he might sanctify it, having cleansed it by the washing of water with the word,"
Ephesians 5:26
Originally posted by Da Pittman
Yes God does want you to worship him, plain and simple.
* yes, God wants everyone to worship Him, true... happy? but the point is, He did not force you to do it... that's why you have the prerogative to say those things, intiende?
Originally posted by Da Pittman
If you do not believe and follow his tenants you will be dammed for all eternity to pain and suffering.
* wrong... if you have no chance or opportunity to believe, like the premise on the first post (if Christianity never reached you), you will not go to hell...
"For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law;
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
(for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
In that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them);"
Romans 2:12-15
* even the people who literally crucified Christ was offered salvation by the apostles... you are out of your line here, my friend, because you are not the One who will judge people... it's God's and Christ's...
Originally posted by Da Pittman
Pretty cut and dry if you ask me and don’t even get me started on the whole “we have free will” crap.
* sure... as i've said, if you choose not to believe, that's your prerogative... however, if you want to believe, but just confused, i would be able to help you... 😉
Originally posted by Tim Rout
You know Robtard, when you tell a joke you should really put a 🙂 after it. Otherwise someone might inadvertently think you're sticking it to me, and no reasonable person would do that. Right?
I reject the use of "smilies" and the like, I find them to be Satan's playthings and I reject the Dark Lord and his temptations.
"Stick it to you"... is that some sort of homosexual insinuation, because I'd prefer you didn't hit on me, sodomite.