Master Chief vs Arbiter

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Right, and Arbiter is above that.

How is an Arbiter "above" that, in heirarchy/ranking? You're clutching at straws.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
2. And Arbiter is stronger than them all.

Technically he isn't harder to take down, at least in terms of damage absorption, than a typical Elite. Physically, Master Chief is about the same level of strong as an Elite, but with an edge on reflexes and speed.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
3. Many actually. He was so successful the Prophets had to betray him.

And has he ever beaten five hundred to one odds? No, he hasn't.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
4. And none of them on Arbiter's level.

Arbiter, while having prodigious skill, is used to being a ship master, not used to hand to hand combat. He doesn't have quite the same amount of martial skill with an energy sword than a special operations Elite, who seem to favour the sword as their go-to weapon.

As I said, Chief had a major disadvantage during that fight with the special operations Elite. He was already fairly exhausted from "days of nonstop fighting on Halo" (direct quote) and of course his shield wasn't recharging, and he still wins against the Elite.

If it was a fully refreshed and battle-ready Master Chief against the Arbiter, Chief wins.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Arbiter wins. He already has a camo advantage

Remember, Chief has had experience taking down camouflauged Elites. Even while stealthed, traces of motion still flicker on the motion detector and it'll give the Spartan an idea of what to expect.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx]
now you gave him all Covenant weapons while MC has all UNSC? Yeah, Arbiter wins.

Originally posted by braz
Well logically, plasma weaponry would be better than projectile weapons. That is, if novel physics are applied(idunno if that can be done here).

Think of it this way. A bullet can tear through your spine and kill you instantly, a plasma shot hitting in the same place will burn and hurt like the seven hells but you'll live.

It even said in the prologue of Halo: The Fall of Reach that the Covenant, after taking a fair taste from UNSC troops on the surface, just fall back into space and glass the planet from orbit. Pussies.

Originally posted by DarkC
Novel. Halo: First Strike.

Wait, black-clad Elites are special ops? But still, he almost died in that, and he wouldve if it werent for the Marines behind him that shot the Elite.

Originally posted by DarkC
Which isn't exactly insanely difficult to see through.

Remember, Chief has had experience taking down camouflauged Elites. Even while stealthed, traces of motion still flicker on the motion detector and it'll give the Spartan an idea of what to expect.

Covenant ground weapons, while futuristic, don't exactly have superior destructive capability to that of human technology. The humans can hold their own in a ground engagement, if what you said is true then they'd be getting their asses whipped on the ground too.

Think of it this way. A bullet can tear through your spine and kill you instantly, a plasma shot hitting in the same place will burn and hurt like the seven hells but you'll live.

It even said in the prologue of Halo: The Fall of Reach that the Covenant, after taking a fair taste from UNSC troops on the surface, just fall back into space and glass the planet from orbit. Pussies.

😑 Ok buddy, I think ur underrating plasma weaponry alot here man. And not to mention the Arbiter. U obviously have no clue what ur talking about. Well, to an extent. A plasma bolt burning at 5000+ degrees wont just 'burn like hell and not kill u' it most likely, more often than not crater a hole in ur chest about the size of a basketball, whereas its kinda rare that a bullet makes it through ur spine killing/paralyzing u. Hell, one bullet wont even kill u most likely, u have to hit vital organs or like u said their spinal column. And the Covenant probably fell back because they didn't want to suffer any unnecessary losses. Why not just glass the planet from afar in orbit rather than possibly losing any valid troops? The Covenant were about overkill and thats what they did.
As for Arbiter, I would say he is very adept in h2h combat cuz dude he was a special ops elite, but now a leader, but in order to get there he had to have the skill to be a spec ops one in the first place. I'd say Arbiter still has what it takes to rape major ass with the sword, not to mention watching with my own eyes how he performed with me on halo 3 😎

Originally posted by braz
😑 Ok buddy, I think ur underrating plasma weaponry alot here man. And not to mention the Arbiter. U obviously have no clue what ur talking about. Well, to an extent.A plasma bolt burning at 5000+ degrees wont just 'burn like hell and not kill u' it most likely, more often than not crater a hole in ur chest about the size of a basketball,

Assessing damage, plasma burns are instantaneous and while the temperature that it's stored at is insanely high, it dissipates very quickly, unlike a flamethrower. It's like waving your hand through a flame essentially, in this case so hot that it still causes severe injury.

According to astrophysicist Eric Nylund, who wrote First Strike and Fall of Reach, plasma burns, it doesn't blow a hole in anything. There's no real force to it, only a magnetic bubble of superheated metallic ions. It would give it some punch, but not the same amount of concussive force as a bullet.

So in short, yes. It would burn like shit, melt through muscle and bone and skin, but a single shot shouldn't kill unless in a vital area. Much like a bullet.

Originally posted by braz
whereas its kinda rare that a bullet makes it through ur spine killing/paralyzing u. Hell, one bullet wont even kill u most likely, u have to hit vital organs or like u said their spinal column. And the Covenant probably fell back because they didn't want to suffer any unnecessary losses.

So if I aimed at your center of mass and sprayed with an assault rifle the chances of me hitting your spinal cord or a vital organ is rare? Because that's what you're pretty much telling me here.

Originally posted by braz
Why not just glass the planet from afar in orbit rather than possibly losing any valid troops? The Covenant were about overkill and thats what they did.

You obviously don't know your stuff. It was mentioned several times throughout the series, such as the "Regret" level in Halo 2 and in the First Strike novel.

Originally posted by braz
As for Arbiter, I would say he is very adept in h2h combat cuz dude he was a special ops elite, but now a leader, but in order to get there he had to have the skill to be a spec ops one in the first place. I'd say Arbiter still has what it takes to rape major ass with the sword, not to mention watching with my own eyes how he performed with me on halo 3 😎

First of all, as I mentioned above, he is based as a ship master according to literature, not a troop master. He isn't special operations, he's a zealot. Notice the gold armor on him?

Covenant heirarchy doesn't work like that. A ship master doesn't instantaneously become a ground commander. Arbiter does have martial skill inherent in most Elites, and the experience as a leader and commander. He's adept at hand to hand yes, but what I'm saying is that he's not much, if any, better than special operations elites.

Originally posted by braz
Wait, black-clad Elites are special ops? But still, he almost died in that, and he wouldve if it werent for the Marines behind him that shot the Elite.

Originally posted by DarkC
I think it's very ironic that you're the one telling me that I don't have a clue what I'm talking about.

Assessing damage, plasma burns are instantaneous and while the temperature that it's stored at is insanely high, it dissipates very quickly, unlike a flamethrower. It's like waving your hand through a flame essentially, in this case so hot that it still causes severe injury.

According to astrophysicist Eric Nylund, who wrote First Strike and Fall of Reach, plasma burns, it doesn't blow a hole in anything. There's no real force to it, only a magnetic bubble of superheated metallic ions. It would give it some punch, but not the same amount of concussive force as a bullet.

So in short, yes. It would burn like shit, melt through muscle and bone and skin, but a single shot shouldn't kill unless in a vital area. Much like a bullet.

Sorry, but all that is just noise. I'm talking about what only one bullet or cartridge could do, which in much of UNSC-based weaponry comes in abundance anyways.

So if I aimed at your center of mass and sprayed with an assault rifle the chances of me hitting your spinal cord or a vital organ is rare? Because that's what you're pretty much telling me here.

They needed to put troops on the ground because all they were after in the first place were Forerunner "artifacts", or pieces of Forerunner technology. And the humans were in their way. Heavily.

You obviously don't know your stuff. It was mentioned several times throughout the series, such as the "Regret" level in Halo 2 and in the First Strike novel.

Wrong again.

First of all, as I mentioned above, he is based as a ship master according to literature, not a troop master. He isn't special operations, he's a zealot. Notice the gold armor on him?

Covenant heirarchy doesn't work like that. A ship master doesn't instantaneously become a ground commander. Arbiter does have martial skill inherent in most Elites, and the experience as a leader and commander. He's adept at hand to hand yes, but what I'm saying is that he's not much, if any, better than special operations elites.

He almost died because of that ballsy move, he had his forearm up to pin the swordsman by the throat, so the Elite had an opening to attempt to saw Chief's arm off. And it was fairly even before Chief pulled it, which is testament to his abilities considering the state he was in.

Ooookkkaaayy, so why is plasma weaponry considered to be so superior to projectile-based weapons??? Cuz dude, if it can freakin penetrate solid steel walls and making metal molten, then it would def rip your chest open with ease, it would create a huge wound. Not to mention, it moves slower, so whats the point of it?? That is assuming everything you're saying is entirely accurate.

I was talking about a single-shot weapon like if I just got shot once cuz u said one bullet, what would most likely happen, but an assault rifle, yeah anyone would be screwed.

And I havent heard anything about Arbiter in the novels so far, I just read on halopedia that he used to be a spec ops leader, so that would lead me to believe hes very skilled, and considering he didnt die in the arbiter rank yet when thats the very point of it, that'd show me hes really good, like on Chiefs level.

halopedia = not canon
books = canon 😬

Originally posted by braz
Ooookkkaaayy, so why is plasma weaponry considered to be so superior to projectile-based weapons???

It's only considered that, by fools 😉

And it's not like he was just the Arbiter for so long, a veteran or anything. He had been the Arbiter for like, what, two or three missions tops? All of the Arbiters are expected to live THAT long, at least.

Originally posted by braz
Ooookkkaaayy, so why is plasma weaponry considered to be so superior to projectile-based weapons??? Cuz dude, if it can freakin penetrate solid steel walls and making metal molten, then it would def rip your chest open with ease, it would create a huge wound. Not to mention, it moves slower, so whats the point of it?? That is assuming everything you're saying is entirely accurate.

Plasma weaponry is futuristic, not technically superior. You can go and gush about it all you want, but essentially its destructive ability compared to human weaponry and ordnance is about on the same level. Apparently everything there I just said just flew over your head like an errant Boeing 747.

First of all, a single plasma shot, even from a Phantom, cannot penetrate solid steel. It will heat it up and soften it. An Elite sitting in a Shade plasma stationary cannon had to shoot at a bulkhead on the Pillar of Autumn repeatedly just to blow it away. Whereas a Gauss cannon on a Warthog penetrates with ease.

I just said that plasma has no significant concussive force. It would hit and burn and melt some skin and muscle and scorch your ribs. It's basically a blob of insane heat, not a solid projectile like a bullet. It wouldn't "rip" something open.

Originally posted by braz
And I havent heard anything about Arbiter in the novels so far, I just read on halopedia that he used to be a spec ops leader, so that would lead me to believe hes very skilled, and considering he didnt die in the arbiter rank yet when thats the very point of it, that'd show me hes really good, like on Chiefs level.

Before becoming the Arbiter, he was the ship master of Ascendant Justice, which was lost to a little boarding party of humans and ultimately the cause of the destruction of more than five hundred Covenant ships, not to mention a huge repair and command center. They got pretty pissed off at him from that.

Arbiter is good, very good, but comparing him to Chief's level is kind of pushing it.
I haven't seen nor heard of Arbiter facing down an anti-tank missile, nor leaping out into orbit with a heavy demolition bomb.

Originally posted by DarkC
You're missing the point entirely.

Plasma weaponry is futuristic, not technically superior. You can go and gush about it all you want, but essentially its destructive ability compared to human weaponry and ordnance is about on the same level. Apparently everything there I just said just flew over your head like an errant Boeing 747.

First of all, a single plasma shot, even from a Phantom, cannot penetrate solid steel. It will heat it up and soften it. An Elite sitting in a Shade plasma stationary cannon had to shoot at a bulkhead on the Pillar of Autumn repeatedly just to blow it away. Whereas a Gauss cannon on a Warthog penetrates with ease.

I just said that plasma has no significant concussive force. It would hit and burn and melt some skin and muscle and scorch your ribs. It's basically a blob of insane heat, not a solid projectile like a bullet. It wouldn't "rip" something open.

Halopedia is wrong there.

Before becoming the Arbiter, he was the ship master of Ascendant Justice, which was lost to a little boarding party of humans and ultimately the cause of the destruction of more than five hundred Covenant ships, not to mention a huge repair and command center. They got pretty pissed off at him from that.

Arbiter is good, very good, but comparing him to Chief's level is kind of pushing it.
I haven't seen nor heard of Arbiter facing down an anti-tank missile, nor leaping out into orbit with a heavy demolition bomb.

Dude, it even says in the novels how much more superior plasma weapons are to projectile-based weaponry? And that the plasma depletes energy shields quicker, and penetrates the MJOLNIR armor better. And dude, a Gauss cannon would not penetrate a bulkheard with ease, are u kidding me??

And I didnt know all that about Arbiter.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
It's only considered that, by fools 😉

And it's not like he was just the Arbiter for so long, a veteran or anything. He had been the Arbiter for like, what, two or three missions tops? All of the Arbiters are expected to live THAT long, at least.

Well lets see, the entire video games of HALO 2 and 3, and whatever else I don't know about him being the Arbiter in EU, I'd say thats quite a bit.

Um, no it's not. The Arbiter only undergoes two missions in Halo 2, undergoes no missions in H3 as he's no longer the Arbiter, and everything he does he does alongside the Chief, so it doesn't count. And he's in NO EU, whereas the Chief is in several.

So no it's not much at all. The Arbiter only underwent two missions as the Arbiter before being branded as a Heretic. Not too mention all TWO missiosn that he did as Arbiter, Chief does on a regular basis.

And the two missions, the first one was to kill the Heretic Leader. The second one was to retrieve the index. After he completed the second one Tarterus betrayed him. So yeah two missions tops as Arbiter. Only two "suicide" missions.

Originally posted by braz
[B]Dude, it even says in the novels how much more superior plasma weapons are to projectile-based weaponry? And that the plasma depletes energy shields quicker, and penetrates the MJOLNIR armor better.

No it doesn't. It actually says that regular Human ammo penetrates MJOLNIR armor better. Covvie weapons just deplete shields quicker.

Neither you nor Violent Jaxx really has a leg to stand on.. neither of you have read the books or anything.. You don't really know what you're talking about, no offense intended.

Originally posted by Blax_Hydralisk
No it doesn't. It actually says that regular Human ammo penetrates MJOLNIR armor better. Covvie weapons just deplete shields quicker.

Neither you nor Violent Jaxx really has a leg to stand on.. neither of you have read the books or anything.. You don't really know what you're talking about, no offense intended.

😆

This is funny. I have read the novels! All of Fall of Reach, and parts of First Strike and the Flood. And they said it burns right through metal as well as the MJOLNIR armor whereas bullets deflected off it when John first tried it on when all the other Spartans watched. It even says for the most part that its fully ballistic proof whereas plasma can still burn through. The plasma torpdeos from the Covenant ships were burning through meter by meter-thick of solid steel walls or whatever alloy/metal they had that was even better on human ships.

Btw, thats in the game only that bullets work better on the armor for game mechanics sake so it'll be fair.

I'm sorry. I misinterpreted what you typed when you said you didn't know about Arbiter in EU.

You're comparing different forms of the plasma weaponry. The Covvie ship's plasma is, obviously, much more powerful and concentrated. It's designed to force through and burn ship hulls. Infantry weapons are different, though. The MJOLNIR armor can withstand a minimal amount of plasma shots.

Bullets DO affect MJOLNOR armor. otherwise the Chief would not have to worry about Human Flood forms shooting human ammo at him. Even in the books he has to be weary of Flood using human weapons. If they just bounced off why would he need to worry about it?

Originally posted by braz
Dude, it even says in the novels how much more superior plasma weapons are to projectile-based weaponry?

Try again.

Originally posted braz
And that the plasma depletes energy shields quicker, and penetrates the MJOLNIR armor better. And dude, a Gauss cannon would not penetrate a bulkheard with ease, are u kidding me??

I'll give you the first one, but not the second. Halsey affirmed that the MJOLNIR was immune to most forms of small munitions fire, but not heavy caliber.

As for the gauss cannon, it's like a mini-MAC gun mounted on top of a Warthog. It's a superdense shell fired at supersonic speeds, and tears through Covenant hull and human plate with ease. Of course it could punch through a bulkhead; if not on the first shot, make a huge dent.

Originally posted by braz
And they said it burns right through metal as well as the MJOLNIR armor whereas bullets deflected off it when John first tried it on when all the other Spartans watched.

The plasma torpdeos from the Covenant ships were burning through meter by meter-thick of solid steel walls or whatever alloy/metal they had that was even better on human ships.

Under test conditions, the first batch of MJOLNIR as I said before, deflected small caliber rounds to an extent, but that's it. You didn't seem to take in the fact that standard issue MA5B ammunition is armor peircing.

Originally posted by braz
It even says for the most part that its fully ballistic proof whereas plasma can still burn through.

Terrible point there. MJOLNIR is not even close to being fully ballistic proof, under fire from an MA5B or just a single round from a Warthog chaingun.

Originally posted by braz
Btw, thats in the game only that bullets work better on the armor for game mechanics sake so it'll be fair.

In the Ghosts of Onyx novel after the Spartans made their escape, they acknowledged the fact that a single AP round could very possibly make it through their armor, compromising themselves.

Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
2. Elites are promoted by kill count, he had one of the highest ranks and has shown to be beyond all other Elites.

Right and they gave the Arbiter a (and I quote from Halo 2): outdated suit.

Originally posted by DarkC
As ship to ship based weapons, yes. Not as hand weapons.

Try again.

Acknowledged. It just seems that if it was good for one purpose that it'd be good for small arms or hand weapons.

Originally posted by DarkC
I am not kidding you, and if you're too ignorant of the facts to actually realise how things work in the Halo universe it isn't my problem.

I'll give you the first one, but not the second. Halsey affirmed that the MJOLNIR was immune to most forms of small munitions fire, but not heavy caliber.

As for the gauss cannon, it's like a mini-MAC gun mounted on top of a Warthog. It's a superdense shell fired at supersonic speeds, and tears through Covenant hull and human plate with ease. Of course it could punch through a bulkhead; if not on the first shot, make a huge dent.

I think it's stupid how you compare ship-to-ship based plasma torpedoes to the smaller bolts fired by their ground troops. Did you not see the size of one of those torpedoes in the Halo: CE cinematic after the Pillar of Autumn level? Since there is no atmosphere nor gravity to dissipate the plasma, of course it would "burn" through.

Under test conditions, the first batch of MJOLNIR as I said before, deflected small caliber rounds to an extent, but that's it. You didn't seem to take in the fact that standard issue MA5B ammunition is armor peircing.

[/B]

And the atmosphere shouldnt dissipate it at all, thats what the Covenant was able to get passed with their tech supposedly, because isnt that the very reason why we dont have plasma weapons now in real life, because it dissipates? And I didnt know the Gauss was that powerful, but I wouldnt go so much as to say its a mini Magnetic Accelerator Cannon. Those things were insane, I'd say a mini MAC is more like the Scorpion tanks cannon.

Originally posted by DarkC
Oh right, so the Chief could have just stood still in that tent and let the marines shoot away at him blithely because it's "fully" ballistic proof, right?

Terrible point there. MJOLNIR is not even close to being fully ballistic proof, under fire from an MA5B or just a single round from a Warthog chaingun.

[/B]

No, but it could resist some of it.

Originally posted by DarkC
Wrong, after the discovery of the Covenant they fixed the MJOLNIR storywise to better fight against the new weaponry. This just goes back to what I said before; plasma burns and heats up the armor and scorches what's underneath, but AP bullets are good at punching through.

In the Ghosts of Onyx novel after the Spartans made their escape, they acknowledged the fact that a single AP round could very possibly make it through their armor, compromising themselves. [/B]

Yeah, it did have a referactive coating to spread the plasma out, but it still burnt through like Sams armor in that first mission with MJOLNIR.

And I find that last statement hard to believe, but it maybe true. Idunno, I havent read Ghosts of Onyx.

Originally posted by ESB -1138
Right and they gave the Arbiter a (and I quote from Halo 2): outdated suit.

Thats because hes Arbiter, right? He messed up on that mission or w/e.

Originally posted by braz
Yeah, but I would think that the Assault Rifle is considered to be small arms fire, despite it being AP, thats only for lightly armed targets, and the MJOLNIR is the most advanced piece of technology the humans possessed.

I suggest you read Fall of Reach again, they switched to shredder rounds whenever they needed something light to be destroyed fast.

Originally posted by braz
Plasma would work better though, remember, it only took one plasma bolt to penetrate Sams MJOLNIR suit, or to severely and mortally injure him, probably melting the metal inside and welding it to his skin.

It's physically impossible for metal to be "welded" to flesh, as with the high temperature the flesh would already have pretty much liquidized by the time the metal stopped cooling anyways.

Originally posted by braz
And the atmosphere shouldnt dissipate it at all, thats what the Covenant was able to get passed with their tech supposedly, because isnt that the very reason why we dont have plasma weapons now in real life, because it dissipates?

Originally posted by braz
And I didnt know the Gauss was that powerful, but I wouldnt go so much as to say its a mini Magnetic Accelerator Cannon. Those things were insane, I'd say a mini MAC is more like the Scorpion tanks cannon.

The Gauss works almost in exactly the same way as a MAC and even uses the same material for the shells it fires. The Gauss, while proportionally much smaller, fires a smaller but also extremey dense round which also travels at supersonic speeds. Like the MAC, it uses electromagnetic technology, whereas a Scorpion's main cannon uses typical fire technology, like the tanks we have already.

Originally posted by braz
No, but it could resist some of it.

Yeah, it did have a referactive coating to spread the plasma out, but it still burnt through like Sams armor in that first mission with MJOLNIR.

And Sam's armor was penetrated, as I said before, after a number of shots to his side.

Originally posted by braz
And I find that last statement hard to believe, but it maybe true. Idunno, I havent read Ghosts of Onyx.