Originally posted by DigiMark007
[b]So Why Are We Moral?The simplest answer, perhaps, is that any human being can see the joy and value of doing good things simply for the sake of them, or for the sake of other humans beings that we love and value. Why does a deity have to be present for altruism to be emotionally beneficial to the person who gives it? It doesn't, though it can be a difficult way of viewing it from a theistic perspective.
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We're are born with that spirituality and sense of brotherhood. We all are capable of having that empathy towards each other. Like Dawkins said: if you asked someone if they would rape or murder if they knew no god existed, most would say no.
Originally posted by Bardock42
It doesn't really. You will still discuss the same things. Take me for example, I'm agnostic. Would you say I chicken out of debates constantly?
No, I wouldn't. But would you call yourself representative of every agnostic?
There is a difference though with theists... you can always ask what they believe and how they apply that in daily life. Their belief system should be of some influence on how they make choices. In case of agnostics or atheists, I doubt agnoticism and atheism says anything about their lifestyle, nor does it make sense to assume any correlation between the two.
Originally posted by queeqI agree with that, atheism and agnosticism don't have any rule systems to go by so it makes sense
No, I wouldn't. But would you call yourself representative of every agnostic?There is a difference though with theists... you can always ask what they believe and how they apply that in daily life. Their belief system should be of some influence on how they make choices. In case of agnostics or atheists, I doubt agnoticism and atheism says anything about their lifestyle, nor does it make sense to assume any correlation between the two.
Originally posted by queeqWell, yeah. Being atheist or agnostic..or also deist or theist as such are just descriptions of your believes. Because of them you might or might not live your life a certain way and hold certain morals.
Nor does it have anything to do with morality... the agnosticism and atheism themselves that is, not the people.
Categorizing ones morality by faith is nonsense. It's more fundamentalist Christian Right bullshit...that's why atheist are vilified. For many years in the United States, atheists were not allowed to testify in court because it was believed that an atheist would have no reason to tell the truth. It's absurd.
Originally posted by queeqI can't say that's my experience in Germany. It would suck if they were just counted out. But the radicals should of course be disregarded.
It is.But in Europe the tables are nearly turned and are believers considered dogmatic and are less and less taken serious in political circles. Both ways suck.
Originally posted by Mark Question
We're are born with that spirituality and sense of brotherhood. We all are capable of having that empathy towards each other. Like Dawkins said: if you asked someone if they would rape or murder if they knew no god existed, most would say no.
1) The first two sentences are contradicting: "Born with" and "capable of" are very different. It is not instinctive to care about the man adjacent to you.
2) Dawkins statement is helpful to what you want it to say. "Halo theory" says that one will say something that the majority would agree simply to appear moral. We have no clue what said person would do if they REALLY KNEW that there was no god.
If may be true, but there is no way to know that with certainty.
Originally posted by queeq
But DK believes the Bible is all made up and fiction, so I suppose that book doesn't serve as a very reliable document to him. I'm sure he must have better sources at his disposal to draw such conclusions.
You take criticism of the bible awfully personally, don't you? If you have questions for god, I'm sure you're aware that he is always listening and ever present in our lives and actions.
Every time the bible mentions god, it was thought up by human beings with an agenda. And that agenda had nothing to do with your eternal soul.
But, it's fun that you feel the need to toss around the validity of a book that you refuse to publicly admit to holding out as the infallible word of a santa god that motivates you to direct three religious documentaries.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I can't say that's my experience in Germany. It would suck if they were just counted out. But the radicals should of course be disregarded.
Um, Europe is what Queeq says it is. If your experience is different from his unfounded claim, then you clearly don't live in Europe.
Originally posted by Devil King
You take criticism of the bible awfully personally, don't you? If you have questions for god, I'm sure you're aware that he is always listening and ever present in our lives and actions.Every time the bible mentions god, it was thought up by human beings with an agenda. And that agenda had nothing to do with your eternal soul.
But, it's fun that you feel the need to toss around the validity of a book that you refuse to publicly admit to holding out as the infallible word of a santa god that motivates you to direct three religious documentaries.
As usual, you make up your own stories, twisting and turning as usual, misconstruing people's posts in order to make them look bad and make you look like the God of this forum. Well, enjoy.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I would guess about the same percentage as atheists and theists that haven't.
I'd say the Agnostics have done much less searching; and are still wandering and have a lot of self-questioning to do. Ask an Atheist or a Theist why they believe what they do, and it'll turn into a 2 hour conversation. But "I don't know" is an easy way out. And not just when it comes to religion, but in general, "I don't know" is answer a lot of people give when they wanna avoid a question or conversation. It's similar to someone saying "Just because."; it's a universal easy way out.
Originally posted by Quiero MotaWhat nonsense. It's not a cop out. It's the truth. You don't know if God exists and Atheists don't know whether he doesn't. If you guys would be honest about it you'd be agnostics as well.
I'd say the Agnostics have done much less searching; and are still wandering and have a lot of self-questioning to do. Ask an Atheist or a Theist why they believe what they do, and it'll turn into a 2 hour conversation. But "I don't know" is an easy way out. And not just when it comes to religion, but in general, "I don't know" is answer a lot of people give when they wanna avoid a question or conversation. It's similar to someone saying "Just because."; it's a universal easy way out.
Originally posted by Bardock42
What nonsense. It's not a cop out. It's the truth. You don't know if God exists and Atheists don't know whether he doesn't. If you guys would be honest about it you'd be agnostics as well.
There's a big difference between not being sure but being convinced, and and no certainy one way or another. There a lot of detectives who don't know for sure if the defendant did it, but they're certain he did.
Just saying "I don't know" and nothing more is lazy because it shows a lack of wanting to explore.
Originally posted by Quiero MotaThat's not what agnosticism is about. Sure someone might be like that. But most people that call themselves agnostics generally know their shit. The term agnostic is not that well know that every idiot is identifying with it. You have a wrong few of agnosticism, there are very smart and informed agnostics.
There's a big difference between not being sure but being convinced, and and no certainy one way or another. There a lot of detectives who don't know for sure if the defendant did it, but they're certain he did.Just saying "I don't know" and nothing more is lazy because it shows a lack of wanting to explore.