Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Those are assertions.What convinced you that he is none of those things?
The overwhelming hypocrisy and inconsistancy of his actions.
"I AM THAT I AM" was as far as it needed to go. After that, it all became human conjecture and maneuvering.
Many christian sects profess that god is unknowable and beyond true understanding, and then rushes to fill the void with a set of rules and laws that he apparently handed down.
The idea that morals and standards are exclusive to those with a religious prerogative assumes that morals are somehow beyond human, which is a contradiction. In fact, most religiously espoused morals stem from an inability to know what they can't. There is nothing in this world or in our lives that is beyond human. In fact, this is the lens though which most humans percieve the world, and explains why we think we are set apart from the rest of reality; special beyond our mandate. We can't be animals if other animals are inferior and base.
What good is a god that doesn't judge our actions? And what good is judgment if we aren't the ones passing it?
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
How? Because they're not exactly sure where they fit in, or how to classify themselves. It's like they're wandering in a religous no-man's-land. "Do I believe?....Or is it nonsense??"
No, it's not because they aren't sure how they fit in, or how to classify themselves, it is because they realize that believing either is a blind guess...and since it doesn't have any influence on this world as far as we can see, they choose not to pass a judgement that could feasably be either way. You must see merit in that.
Originally posted by queeq
But DK believes the Bible is all made up and fiction, so I suppose that book doesn't serve as a very reliable document to him. I'm sure he must have better sources at his disposal to draw such conclusions.
Well, I believe Sherlock Holmes is all made up and fiction, that doesn't mean that the books he is in aren't a reliable document of him (as a fictional character). I figure you also realize that and just play dumb for the sake of it.
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
How? Because they're not exactly sure where they fit in, or how to classify themselves. It's like they're wandering in a religous no-man's-land. "Do I believe?....Or is it nonsense??
There are, no doubt, agnostics who "wander" because they haven't given sufficient time, thought, or study to the question of whether or not there is a "God." But then there are those who have, whereupon the most logical, most honest conclusion seems to be: No One Really Knows. This puts a person in a position to make an informed decision.
For some, "I don't know" ends the search, and they walk away satisfied as is. Perhaps the question of "God's" existence is just not that important to them, or they feel this is a matter for others to ponder. Some seekers are drawn to atheism, which, from a purely empirical POV, is very compelling; while still others may lean toward some form of theism because they see advantages in expanding their reality map.
Whichever path is chosen, it is chosen because that person feels empowered by it.
Originally posted by MindshipPersonally I believe that agnostics are just more honest about it. Because neither Theist nor Atheists really know...they both have faith. Of course you can have that faith, and search for the truth, but it would be quite good for everyone to just admit to themselves "Damn...even though I really, really believe I am right...I might just not be". It's the truth afterall...for everything, obviously.
There are, no doubt, agnostics who "wander" because they haven't given sufficient time, thought, or study to the question of whether or not there is a "God." But then there are those who have, whereupon the most logical, most honest conclusion seems to be: No One Really Knows. This puts a person in a position to make an informed decision.For some, "I don't know" ends the search, and they walk away satisfied as is. Perhaps the question of "God's" existence is just not that important to them, or they feel this is a matter for others to ponder. Some seekers are drawn to atheism, which, from a purely empirical POV, is very compelling; while still others may lean toward some form of theism because they see advantages in expanding their reality map.
Whichever path is chosen, it is chosen because that person feels empowered by it.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Personally I believe that agnostics are just more honest about it.
More honest? Some judgment call.
Saying "I don't know" is honest, but it's also a bit easy. It helps one to avoid any discussion and not take any stance, or just plain object to everything you don't like. I wonder how many self-professing agnostics did do any real searching.
Originally posted by queeqWell, I think losing interest is part of that. I am just not interested anymore in endless debates with the same person. I think you can understand that, at some point the arguments are just the same and get repeated endlessly. It's a mood thing, too, you know?
That's very positive. Usually it's because people lose interest and don't bother to really look into it. Or it gets too personal.
Originally posted by queeqIt doesn't really. You will still discuss the same things. Take me for example, I'm agnostic. Would you say I chicken out of debates constantly?
More honest? Some judgment call.Saying "I don't know" is honest, but it's also a bit easy. It helps one to avoid any discussion and not take any stance, or just plain object to everything you don't like. I wonder how many self-professing agnostics did do any real searching.