Artifact Hierarchy

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Hourman is breaking the Worlogog into tachyons and retains only a fraction of it ..

Yet he is still capable of stoping the Big Bang of a Universe ..

Both are stated to control all of Creation.

Similarities?

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Hourman also told Kyle Rayner (Green Lantern)
that the Worlogog can do anything he can imagine.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

And I don't see why feats are needed in this case.
There have been numerous statements confirming the Worlogog's potential,
from different persons.
It's like
"hey, I don't like how powerfull they say it is so show me some feats".

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Thanos with the HoTU is pretty much the top dog in Marvel yet,
in order to recreate what he had destroyed

Thanos didn't have to destroy in order to re-create,
thanos had to erase in order to heal.

Thanos had already remade the Universe prior in the End:
when he nulled Akhenaten's Reality tamperings,
he also warped the 4321 Reality to distort Akhenaten's Timeline.

The "flaw" though, was still there,
cause it's only remedy (even for god) was absorption/complete re-creation.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

1. he still had to give up all the power he posessed.

2. Not to mention that he wasn't Omnipotent,
since he couldn't fix the flaw without destroying and recreating the Universe.

1. Thanos gave up the power willingly,
as he always have while possessing infinite power.

2. That was the manner in which it was to be fixed, so in fact, Thanos did Fix the flaw.

Thanos absorbed the LT, aside from All of Space/Time in Marvel, I mean, come on.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

1. He is < Thanos w/HoTU.

2. And this "spins Marvel's history in one hand"
was obviously a metaphor for how he is the cosmic judge.

2. I'll use your analogy (with a twist)

It's like,
"hey, I don't like what the writer is stating so I'll just spin (dismiss) his words. "

.............................................................................

"a metaphor for how he is the cosmic judge?" ermmno

The Tribunal is serene in His Omnipotence (hmm, yet THOTI isn't?) 🙂

"the Pulse of Creation reverberates through him, (LT) for he (LT) is its Heart,
ALPHA & OMEGA revolve on the Wheel of Destiny,
a Destiny SPUN by HIS (LT) mighty Hand"

.............................................................................

There, without any spinning of the words, the Writer clearly/definitively states,
that the LT controls/holds the Beginning and End in one hand.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

1. Even you said that the Scathan situation isn't exactly conclusive

2. and he might have been an 'agent' used by TOAA.

(excerpt from the 2006 Handbook LT - bio)

"The LT was nearly usurped by Protege,
who manifested the LT's own power,
Scathan the Celestial saved Reality by judging Protege"

2. That's always been just my speculation (with reason) but it's no fact,
this is a Fact: Scathan = LT ... how? ... that's the mystery.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

You've already discussed this with GalacticStorm and honestly I'm not really in the mood to start this discussion only to get to the point where we move in circles.

Everything in Marvel is just one big ass 616,
one Universe (616)
that has expanded into a infinite branch of infinite UniverseS called the Omniverse.

616, is "the Core Reality from which All others come"

(god-like Mar-vell speaking)

.............................................................................

Again:

616, "is the Core, the First World from which even this Reality ... derived"

(X-51 - the new Watcher, speaking)

He even goes on,
and calls 616 "the Core" and "this Reality" (Earth-9997) the Marvel Universe.

This is because, everything is part of the Marvel Universe (616)
since everything flows from the Prime/Core Reality.

Here are some other examples:

.............................................................................

616, is the Prime Reality ... if it dies, the entire Marvel Universe dies:

(Ute, the Watcher speaking)

"Or THIS, the Prime Reality (616) will fall and with it ... ALL EXISTENCE"

.............................................................................

Confirmed by Uatu as well:

"We concluded that the destruction of This Universe
would Expand outward[/U] from This Universe ...
we call it 616 ... to engulf All Others ... "

"If your World Dies now, Stephen, it will take Everything with it.
Not only This Universe (616) but All the Other UniverseS as well.
Everything there is, will End.
Or rather put it even more simply,
Everything will never have been"

.............................................................................

Everything will never have been[/I]" ✅

(because without 616,
there never was an Omniverse/Megaverse/Multiverse or anything,
because everything comes from 616)

This isn't just talk, Dormammu literally witnessed in the core of 616,
the Marvel Universe (everything) taking shape:

"Wolds within Worlds, Dimensions folding into themselves,
Entire UniverseS being born, and collapsing into ruin,
and yet I sense that ALL This -- is but a fraction of what Eternity is,

the core, the Heart of Eternity's being ... here All Energy, All Matter, lies,
I will detonate Eternity's Heart --- triggering another Creation event,
Re-Birthing every being and thing in All the UniverseS"

.............................................................................

So ...

when the Alien Entity folded ALL the History of the 616 Universe,
he in fact, folded ALL of Marvel.

Indeed, it was Marvel (616) at it's Pre-Big Bang state: (the Void)

And ... since it is a FACT, that all Realities flow from 616,
it's obvious what the Alien Entity did.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

They are < Living Tribunal who is < the HoTU.

The LT himself is also beneath the HOTI, and the LT controls all of Creation.

So again,
my point was and still is,
just cause a being or thing can control creation,
doesn't make them the Supreme Being (HOTI)

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

I don't know anything about him so I won't comment.

He literally made even Oblivion 616 tremble,
when he threatened to revert the entire Marvel Universe back to it's Cosmic Egg.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Nothing she did the Worlogog couldn't do.

While the Worlogog's potential is theoretical technically speaking.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Not even close.

Not just talk, oh, but there is talk,
the IG makes one "God/Omnipotent" on panel, (different sources)
confirmed by Starling in his Marvel Age interview,
makes one Omnipotent according to the IG bio at Marvel.com

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Infinity_Gauntlet_%28item%29

Powers: "Absolute Omnipotence when the Gems are used altogether"

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

I'll be reading about this.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

I'm not too well versed in these 2 objects either although, from what I've seen,

1. the Celestial Nulifier can erase any object in the Marvel 'Omniverse', right ?
If that's the case, what exactly does it make it 'Omniversal' ?

2. Can it erase all the 'Omniverse' at once ?

1. Actually it can erase any Universe in the Omniverse,

2. The CN nullifies a tiny crystal that contains the life-force of a Universe,
the Celestial Guardian possess every crystal,
that pertains to every Universe in the Omniverse.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

If that's the case, then they don't come close to the Worlogog either.

I haven't seen a single shred of evidence that even alludes to that notion.

The Gog's potential is NOT theoretical. We saw what it could do when Extant took it. He unmade the universe. And then restructured it and the laws of physics, reality, and logic. Extant destroyed all future timelines and ended the universe prematurely. The wave of destruction was going backwards, and at the end, only Extant's universe would have existed.

He was stopped only because the Worlogog was incomplete. Hourman had the last fragment.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest

The Gog's potential is NOT theoretical.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest

We saw what it could do when Extant took it. He unmade the universe.
And then restructured it and the laws of physics, reality, and logic.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest

Extant destroyed all future timelines and ended the universe prematurely.
The wave of destruction was going backwards,
and at the end, only Extant's universe would have existed.

He was stopped only because the Worlogog was incomplete.
Hourman had the last fragment.

Still sounds like Excalibur/Amulet, or perhaps even the IG.

btw. You have those scans? (sounds like something nice to see)

Originally posted by Soljer
Surfer's board is worthless in comparison to Lantern Rings or Mjolnir.

Surfer himself is more comparable to Mjolnir or a ring.

Or the power cosmic, as we chumps call it 🙄

Originally posted by Mr Master
Impressive, but this doesn't tell me it's = to HOTI. (Supreme being's power)

The feat is identical to the HOTU's feat . . .

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The feat is identical to the HOTU's feat . . .

The HOTI first defeated nearly every being/entity Marvel could throw at it,
then it absorbed all of space/time,
then it recreated all of space/time.

The HOTI was also stated to be,
the actual power of "God" ... "Supreme Being" ... "Supreme Power" ...
(on panel by Eternity/the LT/Warlock/Thanos/Thor/Zeus,
Thanos becoming "God" was confirmed in an official Marvel Handbook as well)

THOTI's greatest feat is absorbing the LT like a mote in a storm.

Imo, erasing/recreating space/time does not make one the Supreme Being.

....................................................................................................

1. Sis-Neg
2. The Alien Entity
3. Entropy/Genis
4. Wanda

have all re-created all of Marvel's space/time on panel.

5. the BeyonderS should be able to as well,
since one CCU (a tiny fraction or their power)
has proven to be able to influence all of Marvel.
Heck,
Post-retcon Molecule Man is stated to be by the LT himself,
"one of the most powerful beings in all Creation" (all of Marvel),
indeed,
in his battle with Post-retcon Beyonder reality was warped across the Omniverse,

6. Moore's Jaspers 616 collapsed the Omniverse in a possible alternate future.

7. Edifice Rex threatened to fold all of space/time to it's Cosmic Egg,
and he was capable, proven as the entire hierarchy was pooping in their pants.

8. Havok/Nexus was also able (easily) to collapse the Omniverse,
indeed, he nullified the Goblin Force from every Reality in Marvel,
the Goblin Force was seeking his power to control the infinite # of MultiverseS.

9. Merlin/Matrix was also an absolute Omniversal power,
he literally fused the entire Omniverse's life-force into tiny crystals,
which can then be easily crushed withIN the Celestial Nullifier to erase any Universe.

....................................................................................................

That's several honorary mentions, (there's actually more)
yet, All of these cats above are below the Living Tribunal.

So none of them are remotely close to being = to the Supreme Being (HOTI)
(yet, they have all at one point or another,
in some form or another controlled creation,
or proven to be able to control creation by other factors)

The Living Tribunal controls the Beginning and End of all things in the Omniverse,
Scathan is canonically somewhere equal to the LT.

Needless to say,
the LT is insignificance next to THOTI.

....................................................................................................

So again,
I still haven't heard of any reason to believe,
Warlogog = the power of the Supreme Being of DC,
and I surely haven't seen anything to suggest so.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I have to disagree.

The HOTI first defeated nearly every being/entity Marvel could throw at it,
then it absorbed all of space/time,
then it recreated all of space/time.

The HOTI was also stated to be,
the actual power of "God" ... "Supreme Being" ... "Supreme Power" ...
(on panel by Eternity/the LT/Warlock/Thanos/Thor/Zeus,
Thanos becoming "God" was confirmed in an official Marvel Handbook as well)

THOTI's greatest feat is absorbing the LT like a mote in a storm.

Imo, erasing/recreating space/time does not make one the Supreme Being.

....................................................................................................

1. Sis-Neg
2. The Alien Entity
3. Entropy/Genis
4. Wanda

have all re-created all of Marvel's space/time on panel.

5. the BeyonderS should be able to as well,
since one CCU (a tiny fraction or their power)
has proven to be able to influence all of Marvel.
Heck,
Post-retcon Molecule Man is stated to be by the LT himself,
"one of the most powerful beings in all Creation" (all of Marvel),
indeed,
in his battle with Post-retcon Beyonder reality was warped across the Omniverse,

6. Moore's Jaspers 616 collapsed the Omniverse in a possible alternate future.

7. Edifice Rex threatened to fold all of space/time to it's Cosmic Egg,
and he was capable, proven as the entire hierarchy was pooping in their pants.

8. Havok/Nexus was also able (easily) to collapse the Omniverse,
indeed, he nullified the Goblin Force from every Reality in Marvel,
the Goblin Force was seeking his power to control the infinite # of MultiverseS.

9. Merlin/Matrix was also an absolute Omniversal power,
he literally fused the entire Omniverse's life-force into tiny crystals,
which can then be easily crushed withIN the Celestial Nullifier to erase any Universe.

....................................................................................................

That's several honorary mentions, (there's actually more)
yet, All of these cats above are below the Living Tribunal.

So none of them are remotely close to being = to the Supreme Being (HOTI)
(yet, they have all at one point or another,
in some form or another controlled creation,
or proven to be able to control creation by other factors)

The Living Tribunal controls the Beginning and End of all things in the Omniverse,
Scathan is canonically somewhere equal to the LT.

Needless to say,
the LT is insignificance next to THOTI.

....................................................................................................

So again,
I still haven't heard of any reason to believe,
Warlogog = the power of the Supreme Being of DC,
and I surely haven't seen anything to suggest so.

It was used to unmake all of reality from beginning to end including every alternate timeline and universe 😐

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It was used to unmake all of reality from beginning to end
including every alternate timeline and universe

Wanda collapsed the Omniverse subconsciously,
but consciously remade the 616 Reality, and ultimately put the Omniverse back.

Entropy/Genis ended the Marvel Universe. (everything)
Entropy literally re-created the Marvel Universe with his own power. (his conceptual purpose)

Zemo showed us a 616 Future in which Photon erased 616 and every other Timeline.
Cobweb showed us a possible Future in which Jaspers collapsed the entire Omniverse.

These aren't even the most powerful beings in Marvel, I mentioned bigger cats above,
and yet, their power is/was sufficient to wack even remake all Creation.

===

Again, Imo, based on this logic with examples,
destroying/re-creating creation does not make one the Supreme Being. (HOTI)

===

If the Worlogog on panel did unmake everything (Timelines and all) - I'd like to see that,
then it is definitely in the level of "Gods"
(the likes of the IG/Excalibur-Amulet/Merlin-Matrix/hom-Wanda
and other ubers I mentioned earlier)

but not of the Supreme Being, not just based on that feat atleast.

The HOTI is something akin to the Presence of DC, imo.

That aside, where's the depiction of this Worlogog feat taking place on panel?

Originally posted by Mr Master
.............................................................................................

This is a cool feat: (concerning its potentiality)

Excalibur frightened an entity,
an entity that embodied the Concept of Death/Entropy and Oblivion all in one.
in fact, Excalibur was literally able to kill this being:

His name is Jude:

[B]Jude (the Concept of Death)

.............................................................................................

Jude (the Concept of Entropy)

.............................................................................................

Jude (the Concept of Oblivion)

.............................................................................................

Jude had to obey Mephisto while he wielded Excalibur,
for fear of it's own death at the edge of the sword:

[/B]

Er... non-canon...

Originally posted by Mr Master
Everything in Marvel is just one big ass 616,
one Universe (616)
that has expanded into a infinite branch of infinite UniverseS called the Omniverse.

616, is "the Core Reality from which All others come"

(god-like Mar-vell speaking)

.............................................................................

Again:

616, "is the Core, the First World from which even this Reality ... derived"

(X-51 - the new Watcher, speaking)

He even goes on,
and calls 616 "the Core" and "this Reality" (Earth-9997) the Marvel Universe.

This is because, everything is part of the Marvel Universe (616)
since everything flows from the Prime/Core Reality.

Here are some other examples:

.............................................................................

616, is the Prime Reality ... if it dies, the entire Marvel Universe dies:

(Ute, the Watcher speaking)

"Or THIS, the Prime Reality ([B]616) will fall and with it ... ALL EXISTENCE"

.............................................................................

Confirmed by Uatu as well:

"We concluded that the destruction of This Universe
would Expand outward[/U] from This Universe ...
we call it 616 ... to engulf All Others ... "

"If your World Dies now, Stephen, it will take Everything with it.
Not only This Universe (616) but All the Other UniverseS as well.
Everything there is, will End.
Or rather put it even more simply,
Everything will never have been"

.............................................................................

[/B]

And those first two are also non-canon Paradise X. And Mar-Vell wasn't talking about the 616 reality. He was talking about the reality that Excalibur was forged in- the reason it had power over Jude, The Entropic man was because it derived from this earlier, core reality. The three part story ends with the newly enlightened Mar-Vell leaving to go find that core reality. Are you saying that at the end, Mar-Vell is leaving what X-51 calls "the Marvel Universe" in order to go to 616, where Excalibur was forged? Because that's not the way it reads to me.

And the last two are also non-canon, seeing as how that's Gaiman's Marvel: 1602. Just look at Doc Strange's outfit. The 1602 is a divergent timeline of the 616 world that exists in a pocket universe... that's kind of the whole point.

Those don't actually prove anything.

Actually the X Trilogy is 100% Canon!

============================================

Marvel Handbook Bio: (2005) - solidifying it's canonicity.

============================================

From the first run Earth-X:

(excerpt from the official Marvel Handbook - Earh-X bio)

"Earth-9997" (an alternate Universe in the Prime Multiverse)

..........................................................................................................

All the way to the third installment, Paradise-X: (same Universe - Earth-9997)

(excerpt from the official Marvel Handbook - Earh-X bio)

"King Britain was able to Slay Mephisto with Excalibur"

"Mar-Vell explained to Reed that he was to become the new Eternity"

============================================

On Panel verification:

Mephisto slain: (Paradise X)

..........................................................................................................

Reed becomes the new Eternity: (Paradise X)

Everything that took place from Earth-X to Paradise-X is 100%Canon.

Artistically depicted On Panel ... confirmed in Marvel Handbooks, making it Canon.

This isn't some chessy "What -If" ...
they're actually NEVER referenced in any Handbook.

Originally posted by tjcoady

And those first two are also non-canon Paradise X.

Earth-X ... Universe-X and Paradise-X are all 100% Canon!

Originally posted by tjcoady

And Mar-Vell wasn't talking about the 616 reality.
He was talking about the reality that Excalibur was forged in-
the reason it had power over Jude, The Entropic man
was because it derived from this earlier, core reality.

Everyone knows the 616 Reality was the first and only Universe of current creation,
it blossomed into a Multiverse, it further expanded into multiple MultiverseS,
now it's an infinite # of MultiverseS.
But it all flows from 616, the Prime Reality, the Core Reality, foundation of the Omniverse.

I proved this already with the Defenders' scans/1602/Proctor arc/X-Trilogy
amongst others, I could post 10, 20 scans of more examples,
but if what I posted already isn't enough, I'd be wasting my time posting more.

Btw. Excalibur was forged in the "Fires of Creation"

"Forged in the Fires of Creation"

..........................................................................................................

And coincidentally,

the "[i]Fires of Creation" is exactly what initiated the birth of the 616 Reality:

Here is the Alien Entity & Reed at the Pre-Big Bang point of the 616 Reality,
from this absolute void, (Pre-Big Bang of everything in Marvel)
they create the Marvel Universe, (all it's History)
and 616 is it's starting point:

"Our desire to understand was the Spark that Lit the Fire of Creation?"

..........................................................................................................

Indeed:

"Let the Universe itself .. become"

..........................................................................................................

"In the Void that was there before the Big Bang, before everything that is, was ...
in that Pre-Creation hesitation, the Entity asked a question ...
now that question ... has sparked the Engines (fire) of Creation,

I am here, outside Space & Time, at the moment of the Birth of ALL THAT IS!"

..........................................................................................................

At this point,

the Alien Entity merged with the Fires of Creation, and became it's embodiment:

"Let me open your mind ... open you mind ... to Me ... to the Fires of Creation"

..........................................................................................................

Indeed, the Marvel Universe is re-created at a Million Years per second:

Originally posted by tjcoady

The three part story ends with the newly enlightened Mar-Vell leaving to go find that core reality. Are you saying that at the end, Mar-Vell is leaving what X-51 calls "the Marvel Universe" in order to go to 616,
where Excalibur was forged? Because that's not the way it reads to me.

Marvel was never leaving the Marvel Universe

"Mar-Vell is now at the core,
the FIRST World from which even this Reality is derived"

..........................................................................................................

When X-51 says,

"I wonder what they, whoever lives in that core,
will think of the World (Reality-9997) he (Mar-Vell) comes from,
what they will think of this, the Marvel Universe"

X-51 is referring to what the inhabitants of the First World (616)
will think about the rest of creation, as in the Marvel Universe,
when Mar-Vell informs them of their (Earth-9997) existence.

The First World from which all Alternate/Divergent Realities spawn is 616:

(exceprt from rthe official Marvel Handbook LT bio - 2006)

On Panel verification:

Indeed, all Alternate/Divergent realities derive from 616.

Earth-9997 (X-Trilogy) is just another alternate copy of 616. 🙂

Originally posted by tjcoady

And the last two are also non-canon,
seeing as how that's Gaiman's Marvel: 1602.
Just look at Doc Strange's outfit.

1602 is 100% Canon!

(excerpt from the official Marvel Handbook - 1602 - bio)

"Earth-311" (a divergent Universe in the Prime Multiverse)

..........................................................................................................

"Gaiman's Marvel?"

That's inconsequential as many other arcs withIN Marvel make the same claims:

ie. (Avengers #375) - 100% Canon!

"Or THIS, the Prime Reality (616) will fall and with it ... ALL EXISTENCE"

Originally posted by tjcoady

The 1602 is a divergent timeline of the 616 world that exists in a pocket universe... that's kind of the whole point.

"Re-entering the Rift was the only way to set things right ...
Fury ko'd Rojhas (Steve) then carried him through the anomaly (Temporal Rift)
this RESET Earth-616's Timeline back to normal"

The Universe that was left behind was obviously altered
and spared by the Watchers.

..........................................................................................................

Anywho,

More ... On Panel verification: (after Steve leaves)

"Time heals, and is healed, all will come into existence in its proper Time,
one small possibility has ended,
that EVERYTHING ELSE may exist"

..........................................................................................................

The High Tribunal Watcher also confirms the danger that passed:

"All is now well, the UniverseS continue"

I understand what you're saying here; however, when Fury and Rogers (Rojahz) went through the rift, didn't that retroactively remove the events of 1602 from 616 continuity? By returning through that rift, it rendered the 1602 events no longer part of the 616 canon, because from that point on, none of the 1602 events had happened in the 616 universe. Personally, I'd say that if the mini stopped at issue three, it would have been canon, but the events of the last issue invalidate the previous three from happening within the 616 reality.

That's how I see it, but it's not really a big issue. I'm perfectly willing to believe that the 616 reality is the 'core' Marvel universe from which the other ones originate, the same way New Earth in DC is the 'core' reality which the other worlds of the multiverse are dependent upon. I just disagree that 1602 can be used to prove that.

Originally posted by tjcoady

I understand what you're saying here; however, when Fury and Rogers (Rojahz) went through the rift, didn't that retroactively remove the events of 1602 from 616 continuity? By returning through that rift, it rendered the 1602 events no longer part of the 616 canon, because from that point on, none of the 1602 events had happened in the 616 universe.

So at that point, it was canon to 616,
I mean Uatu literally said ... 616:

"This Universe ... we call it 616"

Originally posted by tjcoady

Personally, I'd say that if the mini stopped at issue three, it would have been canon, but the events of the last issue invalidate the previous three from happening within the 616 reality.

And again, I agree the reality was altered into something else,
but the revelancy of Uatu's words,
pertain to what I was stating concerning 616's significance to Marvel.

It also corroborates with the other examples I used from other arcs,
including the mainstream titles presented as further evidence.

Originally posted by tjcoady

That's how I see it, but it's not really a big issue. I'm perfectly willing to believe that the 616 reality is the 'core' Marvel universe from which the other ones originate, the same way New Earth in DC is the 'core' reality which the other worlds of the multiverse are dependent upon.

DC has the same logic concerning their prime Multiverse.

Originally posted by tjcoady

I just disagree that 1602 can be used to prove that.

Perfectly legitimate according to your arguments- and yes, you're right, I did forget the number of issues in the 1602 series.

However, the way I perceive 1602 to have gone down is this way:

Steve Rogers (Rojahz) leaves an alternate future, apparently off the 616 timeline: the fact that it's an alternate future is obviously apparent from the memories Captain America shows of it; even if you interpret it as Millar's Civil War, it still doesn't work: the memories Cap on panel display do not correspond to the canon 616 timeline.

Steve Rogers arrives in the Marvel: 1602 reality, is befriended by a child of the Ronoak settlement (as a sidenote, who is she based on? The best I could guess was that one Alpha Flight character. She could have been just a character Gaimain created for the series, but everyone else has either a Marvel Character analogue or a real life historical counterpart).
His transport through time changes the Marvel Universe history; before his time-travel, the Marvel Universe had not had predecessors such as Stephen Strange replacing John Dee, Nick Fury replacing Francis Walshingham. As Uata explains (and Dr. Strange guesses), history has moved to quickly and the heroes have arrived to save it.

Uata explains to Strange after his death "We conclued that the destruction of this universe, while still bounded by
the speed of light, would occur withan an expanding simultaneity, which would,
paratemporally, have begun immediately following the initial nanoseconds of this
universe...."

And then he explains that if one universe dies like this, all others would as well. He says above that the death of a universe is no big deal. However, the point he stresses is that if a universe dies in this particular way, then it would wipe out the rest. The way it makes sense to read it, is that it is the particular way this universe is dying rather than the particular universe which is dying that means that the Watchers must interfere with their oath and intervene.

Etc, etc,

Eventually, Rogers returns to his own time with Fury in tow. The "1602" universe is presented to Uata as a gift for him to observe.

My problem with your argument here is two fold: One, is your insinuation that because it is the 616 universe in question, when Uata explains that all other universes will be destroyed, that means that all universes expand outward from the 616 universe (I will return to this idea, though). Uata, and the rest of text, gives no evidence that the collapse of the multiverse is dependent on the collapse of the 616 universe.

And two: even if the above point was proved, it wouldn't matter: once Steve Rogers closed the singularity by returning to his own time, then all of the events of the 1602 universe seized to have happened . At the end, everything, including all of Uata's actions no longer existed within the 616 universe. So even if he had said something along the lines of "everything is dependent on 616," that statement would no longer exist within the 616 continuity. By the end of the series, everything that had happened now existed inside the pocket universe, not the main time stream.

But, really, Mr. Master, even though I've never gotten into a debate with you, and did enjoy this quick one, this is fairly off topic from the thread. Although I would very much enjoy continuing to debate the canonicity of both Marvel: 1602, as well as Paradise X, I don't believe this is the correct place.

Albeit, in the overall point, I do agree with you: the rest of the Marvel Multiverse is maintained and is existent through 616, although 1602 and Paradise X's evidence does not convince me of that. So whatever point you were originally making about a 616 artifact, I give me agreement to.

srsly @ what this thread turned into.

and on a sidenote,
The SoD = an extremely powerful weapon // but it's lack of versatility makes it an extremely poor weapon, battle-wise.