Artifact Hierarchy

Originally posted by Galan007
srsly @ what this thread turned into.

You got me..i was happily lurking around the thread for a while and now?😕

Are we trying to let 616 characters use feats from alternate realities? i thought it was known that these things are canon unto themselves...so are we trying to get feats from reality1602 and use them for reality 616?

Serpent Crown? where to put it?

Other Items:

-The Ultimate Weapon
-Godslayer
- Stormbreaker- although Mljolnir is already up there
- Waters of Life
- Motherbox
- Lasso of Truth
- Yellow Lantern Rings
- Astro Force Harness
- Gauntlets of Ares

Originally posted by tjcoady

However, the way I perceive 1602 to have gone down is this way:

Steve Rogers (Rojahz) leaves an alternate future, apparently off the 616 timeline: the fact that it's an alternate future is obviously apparent from the memories Captain America shows of it; even if you interpret it as Millar's Civil War, it still doesn't work: the memories Cap on panel display do not correspond to the canon 616 timeline.

Steve Rogers arrives in the Marvel: 1602 reality, is befriended by a child of the Ronoak settlement (as a sidenote, who is she based on? The best I could guess was that one Alpha Flight character. She could have been just a character Gaimain created for the series, but everyone else has either a Marvel Character analogue or a real life historical counterpart).
His transport through time changes the Marvel Universe history; before his time-travel, the Marvel Universe had not had predecessors such as Stephen Strange replacing John Dee, Nick Fury replacing Francis Walshingham. As Uata explains (and Dr. Strange guesses), history has moved to quickly and the heroes have arrived to save it.

Uata explains to Strange after his death "We conclued that the destruction of this universe, while still bounded by
the speed of light, would occur withan an expanding simultaneity, which would,
paratemporally, have begun immediately following the initial nanoseconds of this
universe...."

And then he explains that if one universe dies like this, all others would as well. He says above that the death of a universe is no big deal. However, the point he stresses is that if a universe dies in this particular way, then it would wipe out the rest. The way it makes sense to read it,

is that it is the particular way this universe is dying,

rather than the particular universe which is dying

that means that the Watchers must interfere with their oath and intervene.

You also left out,
what's clearly written on panel after,
"nanoseconds of This universe" ... (that is ... 616)

*note* (I won't post the scan again, I know you saw it if you quoted it)

Originally posted by tjcoady

Eventually, Rogers returns to his own time with Fury in tow.
The "1602" universe is presented to Uata as a gift for him to observe.

It was the Watchers themselves that re-created that point in time,
then it became an alternate reality standalone universe.

This is the thing, Time-Travel (concerning 616's Timeline) is extremely dangerous,
one can easily set all of Marvel on a collapse by doing so,
cause damaging the 616 Timeline, means damaging the core Reality of Marvel.
And like simple physics, take out the base, and everything falls.

Originally posted by tjcoady

My problem with your argument here is two fold:
One, is your insinuation that because it is the 616 universe in question,
when Uata explains that all other universes will be destroyed,
that means that all universes expand outward from the 616 universe
(I will return to this idea, though).
Uata, and the rest of text,
gives no evidence that the collapse of the multiverse
is dependent on the collapse of the 616 universe.

I guess it's a coincidence that other arcs claim the same thing about 616,
like the scan I posted from Avengers #375, (which You saw) amongst others.

If you want me to post 10 more scans from different mainstream titles, it's no problem.

Originally posted by tjcoady

And two: even if the above point was proved, it wouldn't matter: once Steve Rogers closed the singularity by returning to his own time, then all of the events of the 1602 universe seized to have happened. At the end, everything, including all of Uata's actions no longer existed within the 616 universe. So even if he had said something along the lines of "everything is dependent on 616," that statement would no longer exist within the 616 continuity. By the end of the series, everything that had happened now existed inside the pocket universe, not the main time stream.

The events of the now Earth-311, in fact, did happen,
otherwise,
there wouldn't be an entry for 311 in the official Marvel Handbook of 2005.

Did it happen withIN 616 now?

That's inconsequential and never was my point,
my point in bringing up that arc (Uatu's words)
from the very beginning,
was to strengthen the OTHER scans I posted concerning 616's significance to Marvel.

I matters not whether it happened in 616, 311 or whatever,
what does matter, is what Uatu states about the 616 Universe. (only relevance)
(confirmed as canon in the official Marvel Handbook, as I presented in the previous page)

Just cause a story takes a place in another Universe (not 616)
doesn't mean direct canon statements can't be made about 616.

Originally posted by tjcoady

But, really, Mr. Master, even though I've never gotten into a debate with you, and did enjoy this quick one, this is fairly off topic from the thread. Although I would very much enjoy continuing to debate the canonicity of both Marvel: 1602, as well as Paradise X, I don't believe this is the correct place.

The 616 Reality is reference in both arcs ... also ...

1602 (311) has a full entry in the official Marvel Handbook 2005:

Canon!

Earth-X-Universe-Paradise (9997) has a full entry in the official Marvel Handbook 2005:

Canon!

What ifs?

Have no entry in Marvel Handbooks, an argument can be made there.

Originally posted by tjcoady

Albeit, in the overall point, I do agree with you:
the rest of the Marvel Multiverse is maintained and is existent through 616

So whatever point you were originally making about a 616 artifact,

I give me agreement to.

That's why I presented several sources of info, not just 1602 or X.

I never use a single source,
and I would never just canon alternate realities either to prove a point.

Which is why I posted several examples from mainstream titles too.

Originally posted by starlock

You got me..i was happily lurking around the thread for a while and now?

I enjoy giving the onlookers on panel examples to corroborate my claims,
some are thankful for the info they absorb,
others get offended by my thoroughness,
it's the way of the world. (can't please eveyone)

Originally posted by starlock

Are we trying to let 616 characters use feats from alternate realities?

Btw. The feat was performed by 616 Excalibur. (no counter)

Also, the re-creation of that alternate Universe in (the Sword is Drawn arc)
was performed by Brian (Captain Britain) 616 with 616 Excalibur.

Originally posted by starlock

i thought it was known that these things are canon unto themselves...

Heck yea, they are definitely canon unto themselves.

Stories taking place withIN the Marvel Universe,
confirmed in Marvel Handbooks, are 100% Canon.

Now What if's are a different story,
and even they are technically canon,
although they are never referenced outside of said What if, or bios.
So an argument can be made there.

Originally posted by starlock

so are we trying to get feats from reality1602 and use them for reality 616?

I was only using 616 Uatu's statements about the significance of 616 to Marvel.

"This Universe ... we call it 616"

..........................................................................................................

(excerpt from the official Marvel Handbook - 2005 - 1602 bio)

"Re-entering the Rift was the only way to set things right ...
Fury ko'd Rojhas (Steve) then carried him through the anomaly (Temporal Rift)
this RESET Earth-616's Timeline back to normal"

..........................................................................................................

Originally posted by tjcoady

I do agree with you:
the rest of the Marvel Multiverse is maintained and is existent through 616,
although 1602 and Paradise X's evidence does not convince me of that.

(Avengers #375) - 100% Canon! to 616, withIN 616, then and now!

Proctor arrives on 616 after traversing many alternate Earths, killing Sersi alternates,
he destroys every alternate Earth he visited as well,
now he wants to destroy 616:

"They come, as they have in every Timeline I have traveled,
so they come to THIS, the PRIME REALITY"

=============================================

Let's make sure this "Prime Reality" is the 616 Universe.
(needless to prove, but let's anyway)

=============================================

Proctor (alternate Black Knight)
is a counter-part of 616's Black Knight (the Template)

"Dane (616 BK) you're Proctor's Template"

We know Template in this context obviously means:

"something that serves as a Model for Others to Copy"

=============================================

Proctor continues to explain why his existence diverged from the Template BK:

Because, as we know, Everything diverges from 616.

..........................................................................................................

More proof that BK in THIS Reality is the Template (616) of Proctor (alternate BK)

"You have to absorb your Template's life energy to stay sane in THIS Reality,
I'm still here ... which means .. you are insane"

..........................................................................................................

More proof:

"All I (Proctor) am is an echo of what You (template BK) might've been"

=============================================

Sersi (along with everyone else from THIS Reality)
are also the Templates of their counters too,
because they are all part of THIS Reality - 616:

Sersi: "[ii]Across the Multiverse, you sought me[/i]"

Proctor: "You were the Template woman"

=============================================
=============================================

Ok, so we know "THIS, the PRIME REALITY" ... is indeed 616.

Now, what was stated about 616 in this 100% Canon story,
taking place withIN 616, in Avengers #375?

"Or THIS, the PRIME REALITY will fall and with it, ALL Existence"

🙂 ... I have more examples, (don't think they're needed)
but like you said, this isn't the place.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Everything I posted is relevant to my discussion with those fellow members.

I enjoy giving the onlookers on panel examples to corroborate my claims,
some are thankful for the info they absorb,
others get offended by my thoroughness,
it's the way of the world. (can't please eveyone)

Only feat used outside 616 was the Excalibur feat in the X-Trilogy,
this arc though involved the rest of the Marvel Universe,
including the real Merlin & Roma (who have no counters) amongst others.

Btw. The feat was performed by 616 Excalibur. (no counter)

Also, the re-creation of that alternate Universe in (the Sword is Drawn arc)
was performed by Brian (Captain Britain) 616 with 616 Excalibur.

Cross company cross-overs? (like DC/Marvel garbage)

Heck yea, they are definitely canon unto themselves.

Stories taking place withIN the Marvel Universe,
confirmed in Marvel Handbooks, are 100% Canon.

Now What if's are a different story,
and even they are technically canon,
although they are never referenced outside of said What if, or bios.
So an argument can be made there.

hum ... I NEVER used any feat from 1602 to support a 616 character.

I was only using 616 Uatu's statements about the significance of 616 to Marvel.

"This Universe ... we call it [B]616"

..........................................................................................................

(excerpt from the official Marvel Handbook - 2005 - 1602 bio)

"Re-entering the Rift was the only way to set things right ...
Fury ko'd Rojhas (Steve) then carried him through the anomaly (Temporal Rift)
this RESET Earth-616's Timeline back to normal"

.......................................................................................................... [/B]

I just used 1602 as an example....i was just interested to know if posters are going to start using alternate realities feats(other than 616) for characters in the prime 616 reality

Originally posted by starlock

I just used 1602 as an example....

Originally posted by starlock

i was just interested to know if posters are going to start using alternate realities feats(other than 616) for characters in the prime 616 reality

Now if 616 characters perform feats withIN alternate realities,
(like my Brian/Excalibur scans)
then that's permissable, cause it directly involves the real 616 Template character.

But again, I agree with you on the other side of that coin,
alternate characters (counter-parts of 616) should never be used,
to support 616 characters' abilities, and vice-versa.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Nice, so on panel, it performed a Universal feat ... same as Excalibur.

Both are stated to control all of Creation.

Similarities?

3 different sources (including Roma)
stated Excalibur/Amulet can,
remake the Cosmos/sunder the Omniverse/protect the Omniverse.

dontgetit

That's not true.

Thanos didn't have to destroy in order to re-create,
thanos had to erase in order to heal.

Thanos had already remade the Universe prior in the End:
when he nulled Akhenaten's Reality tamperings,
he also warped the 4321 Reality to distort Akhenaten's Timeline.

The "flaw" though, was still there,
cause it's only remedy (even for god) was absorption/complete re-creation.

Not true.
1. Thanos gave up the power willingly,
as he always have while possessing infinite power.
2. That was the manner in which it was to be fixed, so in fact, Thanos did Fix the flaw.
Thanos absorbed the LT, aside from All of Space/Time in Marvel, I mean, come on.

As I said, I won't comment on something I haven't read about. I'll probably finish reading the series where Excalibur is involved by the end of the week and continue this then. What I do know is that the Worlogog allows the wielder to have complete control over creation from the Big Bang to the Omega Point.

As for the HoTU I wasn't even talking about the flaw in the Universe, I was talking strictly about the fact that Thanos needed to give up his power in order to recreate everything. Thus, what Thanos w/HOTU's power posesses is the power to create everything he had destroyed.

Him not being able to fix the flaw without recreating the Universe proves limitations, which somebody who is Omnipotent shouldn't have.

Originally posted by Mr Master
1. That's my point.

2. I'll use your analogy (with a twist)

It's like,
"hey, I don't like what the writer is stating so I'll just spin (dismiss) his words. "
............................................................................

"a metaphor for how he is the cosmic judge?" ermmno

The Tribunal is serene in [B]His Omnipotence (hmm, yet THOTI isn't?) 🙂

"the Pulse of Creation reverberates through him, (LT) for he (LT) is its Heart,
ALPHA & OMEGA revolve on the Wheel of Destiny,
a Destiny SPUN by HIS (LT) mighty Hand"

.............................................................................

There, without any spinning of the words, the Writer clearly/definitively states,
that the LT controls/holds the Beginning and End in one hand.

1. I said that until I found out it was 100% canon,
and recognized as legit feat by Marvel:

(excerpt from the 2006 Handbook LT - bio)

"The LT was nearly usurped by Protege,
who manifested the LT's own power,
Scathan the Celestial saved Reality by judging Protege"

2. That's always been just my speculation (with reason) but it's no fact,
this is a Fact: Scathan = LT ... how? ... that's the mystery. [/B]

No, it's more of a 'I don't like the fact that you twist statements and events to look more awsome than they seem'. Like I said, since Living Tribunal is the cosmic judge, it's not that hard to figure out what the author meant.

I know the Scathan incidend is canon, but it doesn't change the fact that what was presented was pretty illogic and stupid, on which we both agree.

And where did you get that 'Scathan=Lt" ? The way I saw it, Scathan was potrayed more powerfull which is illogical since LT is stated to be second only to TOAA. The Alien Entity discussing, like I said, I'm not interested in pursuing since it will get to circular arguments.

And it's about obvious by now that when somebody makes statements like "It's the end of everything", "All Existence is threatened" etc. he reffers to the main Marvel Multiverse.

It is illogical to think that collapsing the main 616 Universe would colapse anything beyond the Multiverse, which is pretty much the only thing connected to it, aswell as taking hyperboles as literal (the 'Everything is going to get destroyed !!!" type of statements).

Originally posted by Mr Master
Again, that's my point, they are beneath the LT, (as are the others I mentioned)
and they can all control creation.

The LT himself is also beneath the HOTI, and the LT controls all of Creation.

So again,
my point was and still is,
just cause a being or thing can control creation,
doesn't make them the Supreme Being (HOTI)

I already told you about him,
he can control ALL of Creation.

He literally made even Oblivion 616 tremble,
when he threatened to revert the entire Marvel Universe back to it's Cosmic Egg.

Only Wanda did warp the entire 616 Reality,
tore the Omniverse to pieces,
then put the Omniverse back together again, with a phrase.

While the Worlogog's potential is theoretical technically speaking.

Ha, you have a universal feat and several statements for the Worlogog,
the IG (heck Incomplete IG) has performed Multiversal feats,
4 Gems performed Multi-Universal feats, and nearly collapsed the Omniverse)

Not just talk, oh, but there is talk,
the IG makes one "God/Omnipotent" on panel, (different sources)
confirmed by Starling in his Marvel Age interview,
makes one Omnipotent according to the IG bio at Marvel.com

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Infinity_Gauntlet_%28item%29

[B]Powers: "Absolute Omnipotence when the Gems are used altogether"

Cool,
but you're not going to discover anything more interesting than what I posted,
good story though.

1. Actually it can erase any Universe in the Omniverse,

2. The CN nullifies a tiny crystal that contains the life-force of a Universe,
the Celestial Guardian possess every crystal,
that pertains to every Universe in the Omniverse.

You mean based on your opinion that the Warlogog is = to the HOTI?
I haven't seen a single shred of evidence that even alludes to that notion. [/B]

Just because it's theoreticall doesn't mean that the Worlogog is less powerfull. The fact that it's an artifact that grants you total control from start to end is stated numerous times and never contradicted.

About the Celestial Nullifier, how does being able to erase any Universe in the Omniverse make it Omniversal ?

Not one of them have full control over creation like the Worlogog has and I'll post my view on each one of them except Sis-Neg and Excalibur which I haven't read about yet.

Entropy

"Entropy is the Son of Eternity, the Cosmic being whose essence encompasses the entirety of the Multiverse [...]
hoping then to enlist him in a quest to destroy his father, Eternity, and end All Creation "

As obviously seen, Eternity is stated to encompass the Multiverse and the Multiverse is reffered as all of creation.

It is also stated that Entropy wanted Captain Marvel's help in defeating his father, obviously suggesting that he is not powerfull enough to do it on his own.

Further confirmation ?

"The Universe will end eventually. But I tire of enventually. I'd put it and myself out of our misery now.I could, however, use your help.

"Eternity didn't want to keep going. Couldn't you tell that ? If he had, do you think Entropy and I could have bound him so easily ? Or at all ?. [...] His final thought was .. 'at last'"

Edifice Rex

Where should I start ? This was probably one of the most idiotic and childish stories I've ever read. From ..

Galactus, literally holding a planet in his hand and eating it ..

Then clealing his teeth using his fingers ..

To Edifice Rex making Infinity's nails look nicer and her actually saying 'Wow! The look great!' ...

Eternity acting like a complete idiot ..

And their reaction on Edifice Rex saying that he will reduce the Universe back to a cosmic egg ..

And before you bring in Mxy, there is a difference. In story he is present, characters aren't acting differently like, very obviously, they do in this story.

Ignoring the fact that you even bring such a comic into discussion (Hey, while you're at it, post some pages of She-Hulk ripping comic pages), there's still the fact that none of this is even close to Omniversal and it's pretty obvious, for those who've read it, that at most it reffers to the Multiverse.

Do I also need to mention that Edifice Rex himself stated that has has near limitless cosmic powers, and not unlimited ?

Yeah ..

Mad Jim Jaspers ? He can't instantly control/destroy the Omniverse. The same goes for Wanda since their 'wave' or 'warp' need to extend in order to do so.

Here's how it is. I'll debate against you in any of the following : Infinity Gauntlet,Entropy,Alien Entity, Edifice Rex but this time with judges. It will be similar to a battlezone match only in this case, we won't have a character A vs character B but try to prove that our points of view are the correct ones. You'll debate that they have Omniversal power while I will try to prove the opposite.

I want to do this because I find discussions such as this relativly useless, with neither side ever admitting they are wrong and it eventually and inevitably gets to the point where we will be running in circles.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

As I said, I won't comment on something I haven't read about. I'll probably finish reading the series where Excalibur is involved by the end of the week and continue this then.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

What I do know is that the Worlogog allows the wielder to have complete control over creation from the Big Bang to the Omega Point.

Got it.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

As for the HoTU I wasn't even talking about the flaw in the Universe, I was talking strictly about the fact that Thanos needed to give up his power in order to recreate everything. Thus, what Thanos w/HOTU's power posesses is the power to create everything he had destroyed.

Him not being able to fix the flaw without recreating the Universe proves limitations, which somebody who is Omnipotent shouldn't have.

But Thanos becoming "GOD" ... the "Almighty ... Omnipotent Supreme being,
has been proven across many threads:

(Here's a few for the onlookers, no need to re-hash, it's all been said)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=463345&pagenumber=11

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=454235&pagenumber=2

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=460217&pagenumber=3

I think Galan said it best concerning THOTI:

Originally posted by Galan007

The way I see it ...

The "old man" was a comic character,

and as such [i]was God within the world of comics.

When Thanos usurped THOTI, he too became God within comics[/I].

So imo,

Thanos = "the little old man"..

If you disagree Erik, that's fine.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

No, it's more of a '
I don't like the fact that you twist statements
and events to look more awsome than they seem'.

Or the Ultraverse fiasco?

Or are you referring to the intransigence involving the Levels of Infinity in Marvel?

Which Galan has brought to light now exists withIN DC as well. 🙂
(levels of infinity ... oh yea)

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Like I said, since Living Tribunal is the cosmic judge,
it's not that hard to figure out what the author meant.

You mean like you said,
the author meant something other than there are LEVELS of INFINITY here?

Kosmos replies,

"But Kubik, do we not possess Infinite Power (Omnipotence)

Kubik retorts,

"Yes, Our might is Infinite. But there are Levels of Infinity"

...............................................................................................

Kubik finishes,

"Thus are demonstrated TWO LEVELS of INFINITY,

there are of course, an INFINITE number MORE"

==============================================

dontgetit

This the Second time you jump off-topic, first with irritable sarcasm here:

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

It's like "hey, I don't like how powerfull they say it is so show me some feats".

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

B]you twist statements

and events to look more awsome than they seem[/B]'.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

I know the Scathan incidend is canon,
but it doesn't change the fact that was presented
was pretty illogic and stupid, on which we both agree.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

And where did you get that 'Scathan=Lt" ? The way I saw it, Scathan was potrayed more powerfull which is illogical since LT is stated to be second only to TOAA.

Protege never did anything to the LT as well.

But Scathan did prove to be above an inexperienced wielder of the LT's power.

Protege had the LT's power for a very short time, (didn't adapt sufficiently)
imo, this is why he got stomped.
Or there is the possibility that Scathan was an agent of Toaa ... that's inconclusive though.

This is why I put Scathan & LT as equals, cause there isn't conclusive evidence yet.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

The Alien Entity discussing, like I said,
I'm not interested in pursuing since it will get to circular arguments.

Alien Entity from the Pre-Big Bang point of Marvel re-created the entire Marvel Reality.

Simple, effective.

Or is it, that the term "Big Bang" is only relevant concerning your Worlogog?

Yea, your scan claims it controls everything form the Big Bang to now,
my scans literally/artistically depicts the Alien Entity from the Pre-Big Bang point,
before EVERYTHING that is was, (as stated on panel) re-creating the Marvel Universe.

But yea, there's actually room for speculation there unlike the Warlogog case. 😂

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

And it's about obvious by now that when somebody makes statements like "It's the end of everything", "All Existence is threatened" etc. he reffers to the maine Marvel Multiverse.

Got it.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

It is illogical to think that collapsing the main 616 Universe would colapse anything beyond the Multiverse, which is pretty much the only thing connected to it,

I presented On Panel proof, that is the case.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

aswell as taking hyperboles as literal
(the 'Everything is going to get destroyed !!!" type of statements).

Sis-Neg in 72'
Entropy/Genis in 02'
Thanos/HOTI in 03'
Alien Entity in 06'

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Just because it's theoreticall doesn't mean that the Worlogog is less powerfull.
The fact that it's an artifact that grants you total control from start to end is stated numerous times and never contradicted.

But 616 collapsing,
and thus destroying everything which is also stated On Panel,
is hyperbole right?

Meh, who cares if it actually happened FOUR times on panel,
it's not DC so ...

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

About the Celestial Nullifier,
how does being able to erase any Universe in the Omniverse
make it Omniversal ?

Again, the Celestial guardians possess every single Crustal,
that pertains to every single Universe in the Omniverse,
even 616's Crystal:

"This Crystal embodies the LifeForce of your Home Dimension,
By breaking it, that Entire Portion of the Omniverse CEASES TO EXIST"

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Not one of them have full control over creation like the Worlogog has

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Entropy

"Entropy is the Son of Eternity, the Cosmic being whose essence encompasses the entirety of the Multiverse [...]
hoping then to enlist him in a quest to destroy his father, Eternity,
and end All Creation "

As obviously seen,
Eternity is stated to encompass the Multiverse
and the Multiverse is reffered as all of creation.

Eternity's consciousness is limited to the Prime Multiverse (always known that)

The reason "all of creaion" will be ended,
is because the Prime Multiverse (which houses 616) dies, everything dies.
(Eternity is the Alpha/Omega of Marvel because everything derives from 616)

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

It is also stated that Entropy wanted Captain Marvel's help in defeating his father,
obviously suggesting that he is not powerfull enough to do it on his own.

Further confirmation ?

"The Universe will end eventually. But I tire of enventually. I'd put it and myself out of our misery now.I could, however, use your help.[/i]

"Eternity didn't want to keep going. Couldn't you tell that ? If he had, do you think Entropy and I could have bound him so easily ? Or at all ?. [...] His final thought was .. 'at last'"

Entropy did in fact, CREATE from scratch all of Marvel with his own power:
(which is = to power over Creation)

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Edifice Rex

Where should I start ?
This was probably one of the most idiotic and childish stories I've ever read. From ..

Galactus, literally holding a planet in his hand and eating it ..

Then clealing his teeth using his fingers ..

To Edifice Rex making Infinity's nails look nicer and her actually saying 'Wow! The look great!' ...

Eternity acting like a complete idiot ..

And their reaction on Edifice Rex saying that he will reduce the Universe back to a cosmic egg ..

So these complaints are meaningless.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

And before you bring in Mxy, there is a difference.
In story he is present,
characters aren't acting differently like, very obviously, they do in this story.

"Sorry BOSS ... I Tried"

Yea, I see the difference. 🙂

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Ignoring the fact that you even bring such a comic into discussion
(Hey, while you're at it, post some pages of She-Hulk ripping comic pages),

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

there's still the fact that none of this is even close to Omniversal and it's pretty obvious, for those who've read it, that at most it reffers to the Multiverse.

Is Edifice hyperboling?

Not with the reaction of the Cosmic hierarchy: (no matter how silly they seem)

Look at Oblivion for crying out loud, he embodies nothingness,
and even he would suffer from no Marvel Universe.

Stories took place in 616 btw.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Do I also need to mention that Edifice Rex himself stated that has has near limitless cosmic powers, and not unlimited ?

On the other hand,
Do I also have to mention,
that the 616 Hierarchy admitted Edifice would stomped them all collectively?

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Yeah ..

Mad Jim Jaspers ? He can't instantly control/destroy the Omniverse.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

The same goes for Wanda
since their 'wave' or 'warp' need to extend in order to do so.

The Omniverse's collapse was an expansion process though.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr

Here's how it is. I'll debate against you in any of the following
:Infinity Gauntlet,Entropy,Alien Entity, Edifice Rex but this time with judges.

It will be similar to a battlezone match only in this case, we won't have a character A vs character B but try to prove that our points of view are the correct ones. You'll debate that they have Omniversal power while I will try to prove the opposite.

I want to do this because I find discussions such as this relativly useless, with neither side ever admitting they are wrong and it eventually and inevitably gets to the point where we will be running in circles.

For now, for the record though,

Entropy is a Multiversal power,
that in-advertently influences all of Marvel's destruction/recreation,
because his conceptual purpose is to recycle the Prime Multiverse,
and when the Prime Reality is erased, everything else is erased as well.

IG makes one "God" below the LT.

Alien Entity is without a doubt an Omniversal power,
now more than ever since he merged and became the Fires/Engines of Creation.

Edifice Rex can seemingly do what the Alien Entity can do,
making him potentially equal.

...................................................................

Ok ... see yall in a few Months friends.

Its amazing how a thread about weapons goes form all their power levels to nothing but omniversal cosmic power comparisons and what is and isn't canon. 😐

Also I have a question. Could the HOTI not just absorb the Worlogogg or the Infinity Gauntlet just unmake it?

The way I understand the Worlogog is that it is a map of the entirety of the DC multiverse, throughout time, and affecting anything on the micro-scale of the 'Gog affects everything on the macro-scale of the multiverse.

Originally posted by Erik-Lensherr
[b]Edifice Rex

Where should I start ? This was probably one of the most idiotic and childish stories I've ever read. From ..

Galactus, literally holding a planet in his hand and eating it ..

Then clealing his teeth using his fingers ..

To Edifice Rex making Infinity's nails look nicer and her actually saying 'Wow! The look great!' ...

Eternity acting like a complete idiot ..

And their reaction on Edifice Rex saying that he will reduce the Universe back to a cosmic egg ..

And before you bring in Mxy, there is a difference. In story he is present, characters aren't acting differently like, very obviously, they do in this story.

Ignoring the fact that you even bring such a comic into discussion (Hey, while you're at it, post some pages of She-Hulk ripping comic pages), there's still the fact that none of this is even close to Omniversal and it's pretty obvious, for those who've read it, that at most it reffers to the Multiverse.

Do I also need to mention that Edifice Rex himself stated that has has near limitless cosmic powers, and not unlimited ?

Yeah ..

Mad Jim Jaspers ? He can't instantly control/destroy the Omniverse. The same goes for Wanda since their 'wave' or 'warp' need to extend in order to do so.

Here's how it is. I'll debate against you in any of the following : Infinity Gauntlet,Entropy,Alien Entity, Edifice Rex but this time with judges. It will be similar to a battlezone match only in this case, we won't have a character A vs character B but try to prove that our points of view are the correct ones. You'll debate that they have Omniversal power while I will try to prove the opposite.

I want to do this because I find discussions such as this relativly useless, with neither side ever admitting they are wrong and it eventually and inevitably gets to the point where we will be running in circles. [/B]

well idiotic or no....canon is canon 😆 😆

Originally posted by LORD B
batman utility belt?

Clearly Imaginable Power or higher... 😱

oh... the anti life equation is up there somewhere....

Originally posted by manjaro
oh... the anti life equation is up there somewhere....

The Anti-Life is more of a concept than an artifact.

Although I'd Mageddon as an artifact. It is a weapon, after all.

Is the Motherbox (and that one Fatherbox) on the list yet?