EVANGEL94's Final Slugfest Tournament: Round 2-5; Symmetric Chaos vs SmurphSmash!

All tournament participants must vote. Do not abstain. Non-participants/regular viewers must have 1000 posts on KMC forums to vote. Voting is not allowed until the first 10 hours of the match has elapsed.

Symmetric Chaos

Karnak - 2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karnak_%28comics%29
Flash - 6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wally_West
Superman - 6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman
Amaglam v2 - 6
Batman - 1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman
Prep Time v2 - 2
(1 hour in a scientific laborotory or mystic sanctum)
Knowledge of the Opposition v2 - 2
(list of opponent's abilities but not the level)

Karnak (Mind)
(MA, Skills, Find Flaws etc)
Superman (Body)
(Strength, HV, arctic breath, durability, flight, T-Vo, dashing good looks, etc)
Flash
(Superspeed, Speedforce abilities . . . dun dun dun dun!)

Amalgam Name: Pete

vs

SmurphSmash! (Zeitgeist)

[i]Originally posted by SmurphSmash![i]
Mr. Immortal - 2 points
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Immortal

Dead Girl - 2 points
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t453087.html

Mystique – 2 points
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystique_(comics)

Loa – 2 points
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loa_(comics)

Doorman - 2 points
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doorman_(comics)

Shadow King - 4 points
http://www.comicvine.com/shadow-king/14889/

Deadman - 4 points
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadman

DKRTYZY RRR - 6 points
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/8864/dkrtzyze0.jpg

Prep lvl 1 - 1 point

= 25 points

Area

f) On the rim of an active volcano on a Pacific island - active lava flows scorch the island landscape

Prep:

Bats put together psi-blockers for Pete and himself. Sure Smurph didn't buy mind control but it never hurts to protect one's self.

Meanwhile Pete will be constructing this:
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/KniteSuit.jpg

It's a lead lined suit that protects his Kryptonian from any foolish attempts at using K-nite. Bat's made it originally so the specs exist in the cave. Perfectly aimed HV spot welding should make it easy to build in a couple minutes.

Once it's on Pete will raise Flash's speed suit around it for a bit of added durability.

Match:

Batman will go after all Smurph's corporeal guys. None of the have nearly the competence to fight him.
MrI gets tossed into a volcano. He can't die but he won't be getting out either.
DeadGirl gets locked inside foam.
Mystique gets KTFO.
Loa gets taken down by sonics.

All of those Can be done with stuff Bats keeps in his utility belt.

Next I destroy you incorporeal guys. I'm going to do this:
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/FlashBrainScramble.jpg

Or this:
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/SuperHypno.jpg
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/SuperHypno2.jpg

You might not like it but that ability is still in Superman's powerset. I can just lock them in mental combat then use Karnak's skill and Flash's extremely fast thoughts to win easily.

Of course taking out Smurph's incorporeal guys will be done within moments thanks to Flash's speed.

I like simple plans.

In prep:

Drtzky is going to originate in Mr. I's head, and create a GL forcefield around his body.

Shadow King will possess Loa.

Immediately before the start of the battle, Mystique, Dead Girl and Loa will all go intangible.

In Battle:

Deadman will possess anybody he comes in contact with.

Shadow King will mentally attack the enemy, and use Loa as bait... if anyone tries to strike her, they're fried. Sym's team has knowledge of opposition, but the option is still open to them to kill themselves. We don't mind.

Drtzky will play defense unless Mr. I gets close enough so that the GL can quickly hop into one of their heads, fry their mind, and go back to him. Otherwise, if Drtzky needs to protect somebody, he will. Mr. I will always comply.

Doorman will hang around. They have no possible means to locate or hurt him.

If any of my guys need to perform an intangible kamikaze (phase in to opponent, unphase), they will.

Sym's team is great on the physical level. And they can't harm any of my guys... they can only even touch one of them.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
[b]In prep:

Drtzky is going to originate in Mr. I's head, and create a GL forcefield around his body.[/B]

Show me a scan of Drtzky making a force field please 🙂

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Immediately before the start of the battle, Mystique, Dead Girl and Loa will all go intangible.

A couple more brains to fry. Oh well.

Besides DeadGirl can still go down to a wide blast of HV.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Deadman will possess anybody he comes in contact with.

He won't come in contact with anyone but Batman. Even if he tried that it would be mind control and thus banned.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Shadow King will mentally attack the enemy, and use Loa as bait... if anyone tries to strike her, they're fried. Sym's team has knowledge of opposition, but the option is still open to them to kill themselves. We don't mind.

Drtzky will play defense unless Mr. I gets close enough so that the GL can quickly hop into one of their heads, fry their mind, and go back to him. Otherwise, if Drtzky needs to protect somebody, he will. Mr. I will always comply.

Between Superman's senses and Karnak's tactical ability the presence of both possessing forces will instantly be clear. Then I go for the brain fry. With the sonics in Batman's belt I could also just leave the possessed so sick that it KOs them and the people in the.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
If any of my guys need to perform an intangible kamikaze (phase in to opponent, unphase), they will.

Pete can go intangible instantly. Superman's sense will tell him the moment one of your phasers tries that. Pete moves to the side, bops him/her on the head. Down for the count.

So, in one hour, in a semi-standard lab without any of his uber items, and without any way to relay plans effectively to his teammate, Batman's supposed to build two mind blockers effective enough to block out a mind erasing green lantern math equation, a incorporeal being with telepathy on the level of Prof. X, and Deadman... whose possession isn't even mind control, but is strangely being categorized there anyways.

Did I get all that?

This is WITHOUT any effective knowledges of their weaknesses, how their powers work or what needs exactly to be blocked.

mmm

In addition. Bruce is probably the richest man in the entire DC Earth, owns multiple companies, and immeasurable amounts of resources, safe houses and back up locales. In addition to what he has stored up at the watchtower, etc.

Just assuming that ANYTHING is definitely in the Batcave (which is not that large...) is taking quite a leap of faith. So this suit is not necessarily, not even probably, easily at hand. What if it's even stored in a separate part of the mansion? In the watchtower? In a secretive place even Superman doesn't know about where he stores his JLA-related devices?

It's the goddamn Batman. Leaps of faith are fatal.

About how he plans to deal with the phasers.... the ONLY ones that those would have a hope of working on are Loa, Mystique and Deadgirl.

Doorman is essentially on a different plane of existence.

As is the Shadow King.

Deadman can't be affected, by any attack not mystical or supernatural in nature.

Drtzky is a math equation... brain surgery on a math equation?

And as for the ones who COULD be affected by this?

It doesn't matter. It's power negation. Which wasn't paid for.

Evangel stated at the beginning of the tournament that Flash was lower because he didn't have access to some of the more clever applications of his power because they would need to be bought.

And.... they weren't.

You have nothing more than a scarlet speedster... meh.

Also, fast as they might be, I'd like to see proof that Flash could attempt to perform brain surgery while moving as fast as he is. Superman doesn't use his more exotic powers at those speeds. Flash has never used Supes powers. Hell, they might even have to slow to a halt to accomplish anything in their plan.

In which case, Deadman, Drtzky, Shadow King, Loa and others can all kill them, possess them, mindrape them, etc.

And even if there was a plausible point in Sym's plan?

He can still do nothing to Deadman, Mr. I, Drtzky, Doorman, etc. who win the battle of attrition.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
So, in one hour, in a semi-standard lab without any of his uber items, and without any way to relay plans effectively to his teammate, Batman's supposed to build two mind blockers effective enough to block out a mind erasing green lantern math equation, a incorporeal being with telepathy on the level of Prof. X, and Deadman... whose possession isn't even mind control, but is strangely being categorized there anyways.

Actually he's in the Batcave for prep 🙂

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Just assuming that ANYTHING is definitely in the Batcave (which is not that large...) is taking quite a leap of faith. So this suit is not necessarily, not even probably, easily at hand. What if it's even stored in a separate part of the mansion? In the watchtower? In a secretive place even Superman doesn't know about where he stores his JLA-related devices?

It's made of a few pounds of lead 😐

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Doorman is essentially on a different plane of existence.

Yet you got him for 2 points. I'd like a ruling on how exactly that worked.

Besides Flash can vibrate himself to tune in with other dimensions.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Deadman can't be affected, by any attack not mystical or supernatural in nature.

You don't call screwing with someone brain circuitry by accelerating certain parts of it via supernatural?

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Drtzky is a math equation... brain surgery on a math equation?

It has a physical presence. Prove that it is immune to my brain fry (which can be done by accelerating any little piece of the structure I wish, it doesn't have to be cells. Flash has shuffled the electrons in an enemy's brain to KO him)

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
It doesn't matter. It's power negation. Which wasn't paid for.

I've negated nothing.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Evangel stated at the beginning of the tournament that Flash was lower because he didn't have access to some of the more clever applications of his power because they would need to be bought.

Speed steal and IMP. I'm not using either of those. I confirmed with Evangel that speed lending is still usable.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Also, fast as they might be, I'd like to see proof that Flash could attempt to perform brain surgery while moving as fast as he is. Superman doesn't use his more exotic powers at those speeds. Flash has never used Supes powers. Hell, they might even have to slow to a halt to accomplish anything in their plan.

Slow for a fraction of an instant. Brain fry and leave. Nothing could be so simple. Flash isn't using Superman's power, Karnak is. Besides "all amalgams have full knowledge of how to use their powers." Pete will have no difficulty using these powers in the ways I describe.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
He can still do nothing to Deadman, Mr. I, Drtzky, Doorman, etc. who win the battle of attrition.

Deadman will be a twitching mess. MrI will just as screwed up. Doorman will be unconcious in his alternate plane. Drtzky will be shattered after Pete accelerates part of his fractal mind so much that it just pops.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Show me a scan of Drtzky making a force field please 🙂

Drtzky literally equates to willpower, and is sentient.

If you really want to argue that he's incapable of making a shield, go ahead. It's clearly completely futile... "Show me generic GL #224 being capable of flight! Clearly he could have access to the GL power while not being able to accomplish more than your run of the mill brick!"

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
A couple more brains to fry. Oh well.

Besides DeadGirl can still go down to a wide blast of HV.

Dead Girl has no nerves to attack...

No proof that it could work on Loa. Maybe the signal gets dissipated when it reaches her?

Just thoughts I had since my last post.

Not to mention it can't work on any of the rest of my guys, and it's illegal.

Ho hum.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
He won't come in contact with anyone but Batman. Even if he tried that it would be mind control and thus banned.

And it's actually not mind control. Shadow King couldn't possess an antagonist, sure, but Deadman control's everything BUT the mind, which is shunted out. So completely the opposite of mind control.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Between Superman's senses and Karnak's tactical ability the presence of both possessing forces will instantly be clear. Then I go for the brain fry. With the sonics in Batman's belt I could also just leave the possessed so sick that it KOs them and the people in the.

Brain fry Shadow King? Flash would need to be able to access the astral plane...

Brain fry Drtzky? He's a fucking math equation. 😐

Also, out of curiosity, how is Superman supposed to sense something intangible? I've never seen him sense J'onn when he's intangible...

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Pete can go intangible instantly. Superman's sense will tell him the moment one of your phasers tries that. Pete moves to the side, bops him/her on the head. Down for the count.

Though, notable in Loa's case, they're just cut up into tiny little pieces. 🙂

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
The noob GL's have been stated to be capable of closing a black hole. 😐

Drtzky literally equates to willpower, and is sentient.

If you really want to argue that he's incapable of making a shield, go ahead. It's clearly completely futile... "Show me generic GL #224 being capable of flight! Clearly he could have access to the GL power while not being able to accomplish more than your run of the mill brick!"

But he's nothing like a normal GL. Why would a math equation have use for (or concept of a forcefield). I'm just asking for a feat that shows some basic competence.

I mean it's not like you drafted a guy with no feats in hope that an extremely brief description would give just enough information for you to make the judges think that he was capable of whatever you claimed or something.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Mystique is immune to brain attacks because her brain is always in flux.

Then I keep finding it. That or Pete vibrates to match her intangibility and hits her.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Dead Girl has no nerves to attack...

But she has thoughts which must take the form of energy. Microvision + Xray vision + speed lend to the data = massive sensory overload.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
No proof that it could work on Loa. Maybe the signal gets dissipated when it reaches her?

Can't imagine why you would make a claim like that.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Not to mention it can't work on any of the rest of my guys, and it's illegal.

No it's not 🙂

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Unless your guy either becomes exhausted (he will before we will), or stops to try one of your ridiculous maneuvers.

Speedforce makes it so Wally doesn't expend excessive energy using his powers. Same applies to Pete.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
And it's actually not mind control. Shadow King couldn't possess an antagonist, sure, but Deadman control's everything BUT the mind, which is shunted out. So completely the opposite of mind control.

Terribly exploitative attempt to get around the rules.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Brain fry Deadman, who doesn't have a brain? Go for it.

But he has to think. Overload --> Brain fried

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Brain fry Shadow King? Flash would need to be able to access the astral plane...

T-vo gets me right inside his head. That or you lose SK because he never entered the battle field.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Brain fry Drtzky? He's a fuc[b]king math equation. 😐[/B]

Pick a piece of him. Make it faster until it does match up. Drtzky falls apart.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Also, out of curiosity, how is Superman supposed to sense something intangible? I've never seen him sense J'onn when he's intangible...

Different forms of intangibility. Yours will probably leave a trace for Superman to pick up.

Then I do this:
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/4471/avengersv1ann1229yq3.jpg

. . . a few thousand times if need be.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Actually he's in the Batcave for prep 🙂

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It's made of a few pounds of lead 😐

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yet you got him for 2 points. I'd like a ruling on how exactly that worked.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Besides Flash can vibrate himself to tune in with other dimensions.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You don't call screwing with someone brain circuitry by accelerating certain parts of it via supernatural?

Not in the mystical sense, no.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It has a physical presence. Prove that it is immune to my brain fry (which can be done by accelerating any little piece of the structure I wish, it doesn't have to be cells. Flash has shuffled the electrons in an enemy's brain to KO him)

It's not up to me to prove a negative. Burden of proof is upon you.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I've negated nothing.

"I've located Stinton's power. Those cells will stay out of phase, rendering Stinton harmless".

It doesn't need to explicitly state power negation to obviously be power negation.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Speed steal and IMP. I'm not using either of those. I confirmed with Evangel that speed lending is still usable.

He has a death touch OHKO. You're not doing that.

He can negate powers. You're trying to do that.

He has devastating attacks, which also need to be bought.

This list goes on and on... you would need to buy more than IMP and Speed Steal to get all of Flash's possible applications of power. This is just another example.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Slow for a fraction of an instant. Brain fry and leave. Nothing could be so simple. Flash isn't using Superman's power, Karnak is. Besides "all amalgams have full knowledge of how to use their powers." Pete will have no difficulty using these powers in the ways I describe.

Hell, this isn't even in character for any of them.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Deadman will be a twitching mess. MrI will just as screwed up. Doorman will be unconcious in his alternate plane. Drtzky will be shattered after Pete accelerates part of his fractal mind so much that it just pops.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But he's nothing like a normal GL. Why would a math equation have use for (or concept of a forcefield). I'm just asking for a feat that shows some basic competence.

I mean it's not like you drafted a guy with no feats in hope that an extremely brief description would give just enough information for you to make the judges think that he was capable of whatever you claimed or something.

See: Last fake quote. I'm not claiming anything remotely extraordinary. This defense is laughable at best.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Then I keep finding it. That or Pete vibrates to match her intangibility and hits her.

And she can be invisible and hidden in a wall if she pleases. You're going to be dealing with Shadow King and Drtzky attacking your mind, Deadman attacking your body and be trying to rapidly perform brain surgery, keep moving and be locating all of my characters (somehow), while rapidly switching dimensions, and attacking Mr. I and avoiding Loa... before you even think of Mystique, your mind will be raped.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But she has thoughts which must take the form of energy. Microvision + Xray vision + speed lend to the data = massive sensory overload.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Can't imagine why you would make a claim like that.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
No it's not 🙂

And of course it is.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Speedforce makes it so Wally doesn't expend excessive energy using his powers. Same applies to Pete.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Terribly exploitative attempt to get around the rules.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But he has to think. Overload --> Brain fried

It just so happens that my team is particularly bad for this, and all have completely reasonable reasons why your simplistic plan would fall short.

It's why I drafted them.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
T-vo gets me right inside his head. That or you lose SK because he never entered the battle field.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Pick a piece of him. Make it faster until it does match up. Drtzky falls apart.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Different forms of intangibility. Yours will probably leave a trace for Superman to pick up.

Which is hard, because maybe one of them would even apply to this argument, which doesn't make much sense anyways.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Then I do this:
http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/4471/avengersv1ann1229yq3.jpg

. . . a few thousand times if need be.

You'd think of this then, despite it not being in character for two thirds of your amalgam?

And anyways, it would only work on perhaps one person.

Good match. Game over. 🙂

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Prove that it has a physical presence at all, then prove that your attack could work on a character like mine.

It enters things. It must exist in some physical form.

It's not up to me to prove a negative. Burden of proof is upon you.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii236/Syms_Photos/FlashBrainScramble.jpg

"I've located Stinton's power. Those cells will stay out of phase, rendering Stinton harmless".

It doesn't need to explicitly state power negation to obviously be power negation.

It the effect also kept him unconscious. That's what I'm going for, no attempt to negate powers is being used.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Full knowledge is wonderful. None of your characters could perform this at high speeds, and certainly not grouped with each other.

Hell, this isn't even in character for any of them.

I think you've seriously misunderstood the idea of making an amalgam. How is it not in character for Karnak's mind to press the advantage?

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Deadman doesn't have cells to speed up. Mr. I would recover from anything you throw at him extremely fast. Doorman is unlocateable. Drtzky doesn't have cells to speed up.

I've already explain that I don't need to go after just cells. I can accelerate the impulses that allow them to think and overload their systems.

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Mr. I, who is rapidly communicating thoughts with him, has much more than a concept of a simple forcefield. And, being a GL, Drtzky has plenty of concept of safety of fragile bodies and how to hurt them as well (notable for being adept at erasing their minds, for instance).

See: Last fake quote. I'm not claiming anything remotely extraordinary. This defense is laughable at best.

There's nothing to find, as it never settles. Xavier's said telepaths have no hope of reaching her because, as a shapeshifter, it can't be read. It's in flux.

And she can be invisible and hidden in a wall if she pleases. You're going to be dealing with Shadow King and Drtzky attacking your mind, Deadman attacking your body and be trying to rapidly perform brain surgery, keep moving and be locating all of my characters (somehow), while rapidly switching dimensions, and attacking Mr. I and avoiding Loa... before you even think of Mystique, your mind will be raped.

Her brain is sludge. They've never explained how her powers work, only that she is completely dead and still moving.

Because matter breaks apart upon reaching her?

Nice dodge.

And of course it is.

You don't need to spend excessive energy. You'll still expend energy, and still collapse and be taken out before half my guys.

Says the guy trying to negate powers by shutting off the cells that operate them... ermm

Deadman, much like every other character of my team, and 99% of characters in comics, break many, many laws of physics.

It just so happens that my team is particularly bad for this, and all have completely reasonable reasons why your simplistic plan would fall short.

It's why I drafted them.

He's inside one of my character's heads. His body isn't. But he's most certainly in the battlefield.

Proof that you can touch him?

I have 7 different forms of intangibility on this team. You'll have to be specific.

Which is hard, because maybe one of them would even apply to this argument, which doesn't make much sense anyways.

While being mindraped, possessed and molecularly destructed, you'll do this?

You'd think of this then, despite it not being in character for two thirds of your amalgam?

And anyways, it would only work on perhaps one person.

Good match. Game over. 🙂

OK I get your plan.

It's obscenely stupid to try and argue against people without explained powers or any existing feats. I'm not going to waste time trying.

G'night.

Vote: SC

Both plans were helluva uninspiring, SC's slightly less so.

huh?^

A little courtesy would have been nice to see... ermm

Originally posted by King Kandy
Vote: SC

Both plans were helluva uninspiring, SC's slightly less so.

this match seems kinda tough to judge because both contestants are arguing point by point against each other, but there are very few scans or evidence to allow judges to determine who is on the right and who is blowing hot air. Just a random comment.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
you're not allowed to vote yet 😠

Originally posted by King Kandy
Nah Evangel said I could vote early because my schedule didn't match up with the voting at any point of the day.

King Kandy is allowed to express his early vote, because as a participant he is required to vote, and this is the only time in the entire day King Kandy supposedly can vote.

However, this only applies to King Kandy. This does not apply to anyone else (especially non-participants) as they must wait until the debate period is over to vote. However, King Kandy's vote will not go into effect until the debate period is over.

The debate period was reduced from 12 to 10 hours from the start of the match.

Originally posted by Master-Borg
this match seems kinda tough to judge because both contestants are arguing point by point against each other, but there are very few scans or evidence to allow judges to determine who is on the right and who is blowing hot air. Just a random comment.

Smurph has nothing but hot air. He has deliberately chosen characters with few or no feats. The bio he provided on the GL (one paragraph) is the totality of its appearances.

I'll sum up my plan one last time. I will use T-Vo and Flash's ability to lend speed to parts of people's brains (here's a better example):
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/Wally_Respect3/spedbraishift.jpg

Because of Karnak's ability to find weakness and Flash's hyperfast thoughts T-Vo fights will inevitably end with Pete winning. Smurph has yet to explain how his characters will not be KO'd by a brain fry or T-Vo.

If Mystique manages to avoid mental attacks Flash's vibration abilitys + Karnak's ability to strike the intangible mean I will eventually hit her. The same goes for characters like DeadGirl.