Originally posted by EvilAngelWell how about, he never it in the first place nor did he ever had the materia in posession.Well how about, he never had slow time in any of his duels with Sephiroth
Originally posted by EvilAngelOk.
1st Duel, he was a grunt for Shinra, they don't get materia
Originally posted by EvilAngelYou mean all out?
No, learn to read past the 1st post.
Uhm all out could specifically mean all out with powers and feats that they canonically posses just as it is in the SWV hence why i asked(and you have yet to answer) you to list down the materia cloud canonically has.
Versus matches are based on facts and feats done by characters even if it is an "all out fight".
Originally posted by EvilAngelLol? Cannot be right or wrong? How can "R2d2 can destroy emperor palpatine" be not wrong?
Since this is a debate of opinion, which by definition cannot be right or wrong, both given things are matter of opinion.
I guess going by your logic, MY opinion that a single infantry soldier form IRAQ can wipe out the ENTIRE united states military with a WW1 rifle. But hey! its neither right nor wrong when its painfully obvious that the iraqi wouldn't be even able to fire his rifle before getting shot down by a US sniper.
See how your logic fails?
Originally posted by EvilAngelUh quote me where i insulted you. I merely stated your opinions are fallible(as usual but thats nothing new eh?) Yes i was being aggressive but again, where exactly did i throw an insult at you like i did the last time?
Therefore you're just plain insulting me.
Originally posted by EvilAngelLol don't have a choice. The thing is you DO have a choice.
Now i don't really have a choice but to report that aggressive attitude you have in this civil debate.
You could have ignored it which you were so fond of in the past but only this time i did not throw a direct insult.
But you chose to be petty rather than handle the situation yourself.
Originally posted by EvilAngelHe said all out correct, but where exactly was "All materia" stated?
Thread creators rules. All materia.
"All materia" could also mean materia that both cloud and zack canonically posses which also means hey had at least demonstrated it once hence why i asked if any of them demonstrated it once in a cutscene which would mean that they canonically have that materia.
Originally posted by EvilAngelLOL something a child themselves?
"Not done in cutscene therefore none cannon" that's the "If i can't see it, it's not there" approach, something a child tells themselves.
Then i guess its safe to assume(by your logic which i have been fond of always pointing out) darth vader has lightning even though he NEVER demonstrated it once in the entire SW saga.
But hey he DOES have lightning right?!?!?!?! Because only a child who says "He never demonstrated it = he does not have it" tells that to himself.
I also guess its safe to assume that tifa can perform meteor or holy when the very fact that she has never been shown in a cutscene to even use the materias or even hinted at having the said materia.
Seriously EvilAngel, i am not trying to be mean or trying to insult you or anything. But i really think its a good idea you quit attempting to debate, hell you don't even know the defination of canon hence which is why i brought up "the cutscenes" issue.
You just fail to release that what ever is not performed unless stated elsewhere in a cutscene is NOT canon which means it CANNOT be used in a debate EVEN if the thread starter stated all out(which again means going all out with the materia they canonically posses.
Originally posted by EvilAngelAnd all out could mean the feats and powers they canonically posses.
It's in the forums rules, if the thread creator puts forth a certain rule, it has to be taken into account. Sol says all out on the materia front.
If i said "Oh darth nihilus vs sephiroth all out" i can't just lay down the rules that "Oh darth nihilus has the force storm ability in this match" when it has never been stated or shown anywhere that nihilus actually had nor used the ability.
Originally posted by EvilAngelI never disallowed materia, i only disallow the ones you have failed to prove that cloud has canonically.
So as for you're feeble attempts to disallow Materia, do better.
Unless the thread maker specifically said "all materia" rather than "all out". I'll drop the whole issue. Oh and please refrain from telling me that "All out = all materia" when logic points out that all out could even mean powers that he canonically has.
*Waits for the next ridiculous response*
BAH screw the debate, i guess ill just read properly before making rash statements and not be so ignorant next time. You have my sincere apologies EvilAngel.
Regarding the "Not shown in cutscene = non canon thing" ill explain it to you nicely and civily next time.
If a moderator reads this post please erase my "rebuttal" up a few posts.
Anyways already made a request to get it remoced
Originally posted by Csdabest
The only Materia Cloud shoud canocally have is The ones he started off with and the one in the sephiroth and Cloud team up aginst the dragon. Other than that no other should be used.
Originally posted by General Kaliero
What Materia "should" or "should not" be used is entirely up to the thread creator, in this case, Sol Valentine. He said "all out", which would logically mean any Materia available.
It's under that assumption i have based all of my points.
Thank you for the apology Ivalice, however next time please do read through all the rules given by the thread creator before dubbing me a fangirl. It really demoralises bothering to debate.
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Why would Yazoo and Loz be able to use Materia better than Cloud or Zack?
Because they are apart of Sephiroth... who, by the way he's herald around here, quite skilled in ALL ASPECTS. Cloud is a swordsman, and Zack is a swordsman. The fact that they don't use materia kinda tells you that they're not very proficient with it.
Give me an answer for that and i'll be impressed, since Cloud and Zack actually have experience using materia, unlike the other 2.
Where is this experience with materia at?
Which is invalid because Cloud and Zack also have time powers.
He does? 😕
However, Cloud and Zack can completely stop time for as long as they have magic, according to the game. So Dante and Nero are a bit screwed IMO.
You do know that stop materia fails in the game, right?
You do know that Quicksilver, or the even more potent, Chrono Heart doesn't?
Yeah, I can see which one is better...
Well, if you say so.
You're not even quoting anything... what are you responding to?
No, read above.
No, see above.
I know, i was in a rush to go so there's loads of typos if you read the post through. I meant to say it's a good combination.
No, see above.
Thread creator gave them materia. So no burn. Just the swatting of ignorant fanboys across the desk really.
And therefore Dante gets everything too. Chrono Heart and DDT annihilates Cloud and Zack
As it stands Cloud and Zack have:- Time powers
- Barriers
- Summons
- Elemental powers
- Chaos powers (tornado's, meteorites etc)
- Healing powers
- Materia that increase their physical power (Speed plus materia, Pre emptive, etc)
- Manipulate materia, aka enemy control.
This would mean much if they can cast all but one at a time... and not to mention how slow they cast it. Chrono Heart stops them before they can even put their sword away to cast
How the hell do they win?
Who?
I can tell you one thing... it isn't Cloud and Zack.
Yes, I'm a fangirl
At least you admit it.
Edit: Rereading over things and...
You gotta be shittin me. People (namely Evilfangirl) is getting all materia from "All out"? The holy hell?
As Ivalice has been saying.. what canon materia does Cloud and Zack have, because that's all they're using here.
Originally posted by Ivalice
BAH screw the debate, i guess ill just read properly before making rash statements and not be so ignorant next time. You have my sincere apologies EvilAngel.Regarding the "Not shown in cutscene = non canon thing" ill explain it to you nicely and civily next time.
If a moderator reads this post please erase my "rebuttal" up a few posts.
Anyways already made a request to get it remoced
Sorry, but posts don't get removed unless they're breaking some sort of rule.
Originally posted by Keollyn
At least you admit it.Edit: Rereading over things and...
You gotta be shittin me. People (namely Evilfangirl) is getting all materia from "All out"? The holy hell?
Evilfangirl?
You know what. You just lost the right to debate with me.
/ignore
It's one thing being unable to deal with being wrong. It's another to turn it into snide remarks in your posts, which i really don't appreciate.
I've already been shot at in this thread. It's just not worth it.
Originally posted by General Kaliero
Ivalice made a mistake, and admitted to it. Sol Valentine's understood intent was "all Materia."
Direct quote please. Because it isn't in his first post, nor it is in the post he said "All out" on.
All out =/= all materia.
Originally posted by EvilAngel
Evilfangirl?You know what. You just lost the right to debate with me.
/ignore
It's one thing being unable to deal with being wrong. It's another to turn it into snide remarks in your posts, which i really don't appreciate.
I've already been shot at in this thread. It's just not worth it.
Concession accepted. Have a nice day.
Originally posted by Keollyn
Direct quote please. Because it isn't in his first post, nor it is in the post he said "All out" on.All out =/= all materia.
Read more carefully, then.
Originally posted by Superboy Prime
So which is it?Strict swordfight or an all out materia/demonic powers?
Originally posted by Sol Valentine
All out.
Originally posted by Ivalice
Including meteor and holy? Or just materia they canonically possess? Not trying to be a jackass here but just making sure.
Both of those take time to come into effect. And I'm pretty such they both require special locations.
To my memory, Black materia can only be used when there's lots of Lifestream/materia around, and Holy you have to be "Close to the planet"
That's if my memory serves right
Based on that even if they do have both, it won't make any difference IMO.