Flash (Wally) versus Darkseid

Started by janus772 pages
janus77 Banana Genius

I was talking about how Time and Space cannot be separated out into discernible, distinct phenomena.

after all, even Einstein had to settle for "SpaceTime" no? 😄

janus77 Banana Genius

oh and also, the first scan makes my point regarding stealing Speed - only possible if they are using the Speed Force, as the Flash in the tin hat says 😄

Mindset Senior Member

Originally posted by janus77
I was talking about how Time and Space cannot be separated out into discernible, distinct phenomena.

after all, even Einstein had to settle for "SpaceTime" no? 😄

Ok, everyone is moving in direct parallel to Zoom if by direct parallel you mean they are within spacetime...

Kento The last Hokage

Jay never says that they can only steal speed from people using the Speed Force just that he's moving through time instead of using the Speed Force and that's why they can't steal his speed. He's not using speed. Superman uses his own strength not the speed force to run at light speed and Flash can steal his speed.

Though I think Wally could win against Darkseid if he could BFR him.

janus77 Banana Genius

well, for Zoom to even interact with the object dimension when, according to tin-hat-Flash - he is in a separate and more advanced timeline, they would have to share the same timespace at the point of interaction, thus Zoom would either pop-in and out of this reality or move faster within the reality (ie be faster) as a result of his effect on the time in his immediate vicinity, either way... they aren't really separable ideas.

think of it this way, for Flash to have a kinetic dimension (the SpeedForce) with which to interact, he has to basically bring another dimension into contact with the object dimension, which is precisely the same thing Zoom has to do, with his respective dimension, but while in the object dimension, the phenomena is expressed through being really fast...

janus77 Banana Genius

Originally posted by Kento
Jay never says that they can only steal speed from people using the Speed Force just that he's moving through time instead of using the Speed Force and that's why they can't steal his speed. He's not using speed. Superman uses his own strength not the speed force to run at light speed and Flash can steal his speed.

Though I think Wally could win against Darkseid if he could BFR him.


tin hat Flash explicitly states that Zoom is not using the Speed Force and therefore they cannot steal speed from him.

Kento The last Hokage

Originally posted by janus77
tin hat Flash explicitly states that Zoom is not using the Speed Force and therefore they cannot steal speed from him.
No Jay says they can't steal his speed because he's using a different element than the Speed Force and is tapping into time. It's kinda hard to take speed away from something that isn't using super speed at all. Wally has taken speed from people who have nothing to do with the Speed Force.

Rorschach Junior Member
Originally posted by janus77
tin hat Flash explicitly states that Zoom is not using the Speed Force and therefore they cannot steal speed from him.

Except that he's stolen speed from someone that doesn't use the Speed Force. Zoom is the exception.

janus77 Banana Genius

Originally posted by Kento
No Jay says they can't steal his speed because he's using a different element than the Speed Force and is tapping into time.

that is it in a nutshell, it states what the prerequisite is for operating a speed steal.

janus77 Banana Genius

Originally posted by Rorschach
Except that he's stolen speed from someone that doesn't use the Speed Force. Zoom is the exception.

and he's been KO'd by guys who aren't even Superman fast. doesn't change the mechanistic argument, which is what we have when discussing powersets.

Rorschach Junior Member
Originally posted by janus77
and he's been KO'd by guys who aren't even Superman fast.

Because he isn’t always moving at his best speeds.

Originally posted by janus77
doesn't change the mechanistic argument, which is what we have when discussing powersets.

You’re arguing that Flash can’t steal the speed of those who don’t tap into the Speed Force. This isn't true, as members of the Flash family have stolen speed from those who don’t tap into the speed force, several times.

Kento The last Hokage

Originally posted by janus77
that is it in a nutshell, it states what the prerequisite is for operating a speed steal.
Or it could just be to explain he's not really moving fast at all and isn't a speedster like them. If you needed to have the Speed Force to have the speed stolen from you Wally couldn't steal speed from bullets or lend and steal speed other people that wasn't Jessie, Bart, or Jay which he has plenty of times.

Or just maybe they thought he was a speedster just like all of them also and that's why Jay said it since Jay was telling them his theory on Zoom.

Mindset Senior Member

Originally posted by janus77
well, for Zoom to even interact with the object dimension when, according to tin-hat-Flash - he is in a separate and more advanced timeline, they would have to share the same timespace at the point of interaction, thus Zoom would either pop-in and out of this reality or move faster within the reality (ie be faster) as a result of his effect on the time in his immediate vicinity, either way... they aren't really separable ideas.

think of it this way, for Flash to have a kinetic dimension (the SpeedForce) with which to interact, he has to basically bring another dimension into contact with the object dimension, which is precisely the same thing Zoom has to do, with his respective dimension, but while in the object dimension, the phenomena is expressed through being really fast...

I'm sorry, what point are you even trying to make?

You asked what the difference was and I told you, just because they use similar 'methods to produce their speed doesnt make them the same. There are powers the speed force provides which Zoom doesn't have, and there are things Zoom can do the speedforce users can't.

Rorschach Junior Member

Jay was also wrong about Zoom not having the ability to be able to move backwards in time.

Bentley Seitei

Lets face the facts: Jay sucks.

King_Mungi ...........

😖hifty:

1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/SuperPowersV2_6of6_14.jpg

Soljer Beware my Power

Originally posted by King_Mungi
😖hifty:

1. http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/SuperPowersV2_6of6_14.jpg

Got anything that isn't two decades old? 😬.

King_Mungi ...........
Originally posted by Soljer
Got anything that isn't two decades old? 😬.

It was more for a joke hence the "shifty" smile, but I see someone is testy today 😉

K3VIL Neutral Force

Originally posted by Master-Borg
can Flash outrun the Omega Beam?

In AVENGERS/JLA he did it, catching the Infinity Gauntlet before Darkseid teleported the invading heroes to the Savage Land, the problem here are Wally's durability and the fact that Darkseid has more abilities at his disposal and at his peak, not the punching ball he is now, he's a Skyfather.