Midnighter vs Iron Fist

Originally posted by spetznaz
This is VERY simple ....and I am very surprised at some of the comments coming from people who know Captain America (huh ....I'll explain) quite well and his fight against Iron Fist.

In this match, Midnighter will win 10/10.

Yes, a perfect score.

This is why:

First of all look at the two characters. IronFist is a master combatant, who is one of the foremost unarmed fighters in the MU (and that is without him even having to use his ironfist/chi-channeling ability). It would be like fighting a Shang Chi type character ....and just when you think you have him figured out, he simply hits you with a flaming fist. A lot can be said about him, but it can all be encapsulated under the fact that he is one hombre you probably would not want to be in a fight against.

As for Midnighter a lot can be said about him, and he does have a very healthy respect thread. Instead of touching on his brutality, his love for killing, and all his various enhancements ranging from superior strength and speed to his million scenario combat calculations to his rather effective healing factor ...... let's just say that the guy (in a nutshell) is an amalgam of Deathstroke and Batman (with rabid wolverine's love for killing).

Now, why do i say that MN wins.

Easy ....look at the fight between IronFist and Captain America. Steve was wailing on Ironfist, and the interesting thing is that even though IF knew that he had greater skills than Steve (he actually said that Steve's skills were basic) the sheer physical capabilites granted to CA by the SSS basically made him beat up IF.

It is kind of similar to what deathstroke does to Batman ....or for that matter to Batgirl (where she couldn't even read him because his movements were like a very loud cacophony from a chorus).

The sheer physical ability that MN has (he is NOT peak human ....the guy is meta. It would be nice if people actually checked out his respect thread and compared it to that of IF) would be too much for IF, in much the same way that Captain America's was too much for IronFist, or Deathstroke too much for Bruce.

Oh ...and one more thing. The moment IF does any move it is over. MN will basically come up with a myriad ways of bringing down the guy.

Probably by ripping his spine out (which he seems to enjoy doing quite a bit).

Just wondering, when is the last time you read an Iron Fist comic?

Originally posted by spetznaz

Easy ....look at the fight between IronFist and Captain America. Steve was wailing on Ironfist... the sheer physical capabilites granted to CA by the SSS basically made him beat up IF.

The sheer physical ability that MN has (he is NOT peak human ....the guy is meta. It would be nice if people actually checked out his respect thread and compared it to that of IF) would be too much for IF,

The Iron Fist of today is not the Iron Fist of yesteryear.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
Ok lets have a completely illogical debate then.

I think Midknighter will win, because he enjoys stabbing poo and likes to wear leather. I also note that two I's are used to spell Iron Fists name; so their is no chance that he can possibly win.

At least spell Midnighter right....it's only in this thread about 20 times or so.

Meh, Midnighter wins again.

Midnighter can just predict Iron Fist's every possible move. Come on, guys. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the outcome of this match.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I'm sorry Spetz. But I call bullshit on this analysis. Danny was weakened from fighting the Wrecking Crew in that issue, he had used his Iron Fist technique twice already in that issue. That was not a fair fight, if anything, that fight demonstrates Iron Fist is far above Captain America. He was holding his own against him when he was nearly exhausted.

Here is the scan.

I'll let it speak for itself.

And I still believe that Midbighter is above Ironfist, no matter how the Captain America fight is taken.

Midnighter might have trouble with the Chi-amping techniques and the more mystical abilities Danny has been developing recently. I've NEVER seen Midnighter take on an opponent with mystical-type-martial-arts, and I don't know how well his implants could Danny's enhanced abilities from them.

but other than that factor, the Midnighter could take the Hammer of K'un Lu.

I reckon that Danny's chi and telepathy techniques could throw Midnighter off with his predictions, and I'm certain that Fist's martial arts skills are rather higher than Midnighter.

I will take midnighter for the win

Originally posted by Etrigan
I reckon that Danny's chi and telepathy techniques could throw Midnighter off with his predictions, and I'm certain that Fist's martial arts skills are rather higher than Midnighter.

Even if both of those factors are true, there is still the fact that the Midnighter is considerably stronger, faster, more durable, and heals more quickly.

Originally posted by Mindset
I'm guessing you didn't understand what I was saying.

I did understand, EXACTLY what you where saying:

So far your arguement has amounted to the following

Though Wolverine and Midknighter have a far superior super power that allows them to take on far more powerful adversaries than Iron Fist.

The arguement that X is superior to Y which is superior to Z, should not be considered at its not a 100% accurate process.

Therefore

Iron Fist (Z) is superior to Midknighter (X).

Its pretty invalid if you ask me. Youre conclusion has no reason to be supported.

Originally posted by Cartesian Doubt
I did understand, EXACTLY what you where saying:

So far your arguement has amounted to the following

Though Wolverine and Midknighter have a far superior super power that allows them to take on far more powerful adversaries than Iron Fist.

The arguement that X is superior to Y which is superior to Z, should not be considered at its not a 100% accurate process.

Therefore

Iron Fist (Z) is superior to Midknighter (X).

Its pretty invalid if you ask me. Youre conclusion has no reason to be supported.

Seeing as how your tag here is "Cartesian Doubt," why don't we handle this from a Cartesian perspective.

Lets see, lets see. Descartes, Descartes. Wasn't he the guy who was basically utterly invalidated by Spinoza and had holes poked through him by everyone from Liebinez to Bacon to Nietzsche? (looks through drug and booze-addled memory)

Why, yes! Hm, I seem to recall that he was all about eliminating doubt by disregarding the evidence of the senses as he established through his well known and useless "wax argument."

If we go ahead and reduce everything down, down, down to its most basic terms, then, what Descartes attempts to postulate is that empirical evidence is moot because we can never be sure we can rely on it. Therefore, deduction is rather better than induction.

Ooookay, proceeding from this framework lets see what we can make of your argument herein.

Hm, well, a misplaced comma, an incorrectly used colon, and a horrifically misspelled word. And how does one "where say?" It sounds fascinating and kind of fun. Is it a bit like ventriloquism? Other than these egregious grammar errors, I can follow you thus far.

You start your next sentence off with "though" implying that you're about to refute a statement. An example would be, "Though Superman has heat vision and the Martian Manhunter is susceptible to flame, J'onn's various other powers more than make up for Superman's fire-based attack."

Wait, that's not what you're doing at all. Instead you just start off with the word "though" and then flow into a statement that doesn't seem to make any sense at all. Instead you merely state that apparently this oddly named "Midknighter" fellow (what comics does he appear in? I don't believe I've ever read them) and Wolverine happen to have what seems to be a "far superior super power" (hey! Bonus alliteration points!), they can thus beat more powerful enemies then Iron Fist. Er, alright.

The next postulation seems to be attempting to establish a point that I believe was made already, in a much more clear manner than what you're saying here... by the person you're arguing with? Then why are you disagreeing with them?

So it's the old if "X" is superior to "Y" and "Y" is superior to "Z," then "X" is superior to "Z," in which "X" represents this bizarre "Midknighter" dude, "Y" is equal, apparently, to Wolverine, and "Z" is a stand-in for Iron Fist deal.

Wait, what is this odd logic in the next statement. Even if you believe the aforementioned equation, then your following argument for why it's invalid doesn't make... any sense at all. If "X" is superior to "Z" then... how exactly is "Z" also superior to "X?"

And how exactly is Mindset himself a conclusion, as evidenced by your fascinating argument "youre conclusion?" And why are you incapable of using apostrophes? And why are you arguing with the exact point he made only using more convoluted and less thought out statements? And why am I refuting what you're saying at length even though it's pretty clear that anyone who reads it would realize it doesn't make any sense? And why do you spell argument like that, not only once but twice, even though KMC has a spell check? And why can't you figure out what the f*ck Midnighter's name is, even though people have already pointed it out? And what on Earth are you trying to say? And why are you speaking in such highfalutin speech when you can't even spell "were" correctly? And why am I so infinitely more clear than you when I've been drinking for the past thirteen hours straight and I'm exceptionally high? And why...

... head explodes

Midnighter throws Iron fist to the ground and starts giving him butt sex.

Originally posted by tjcoady
Seeing as how your tag here is "Cartesian Doubt," why don't we handle this from a Cartesian perspective.

Lets see, lets see. Descartes, Descartes. Wasn't he the guy who was basically utterly invalidated by Spinoza and had holes poked through him by everyone from Liebinez to Bacon to Nietzsche? (looks through drug and booze-addled memory)

Why, yes! Hm, I seem to recall that he was all about eliminating doubt by disregarding the evidence of the senses as he established through his well known and useless "wax argument."

If we go ahead and reduce everything down, down, down to its most basic terms, then, what Descartes attempts to postulate is that empirical evidence is moot because we can never be sure we can rely on it. Therefore, deduction is rather better than induction.

Ooookay, proceeding from this framework lets see what we can make of your argument herein.

Hm, well, a misplaced comma, an incorrectly used colon, and a horrifically misspelled word. And how does one "where say?" It sounds fascinating and kind of fun. Is it a bit like ventriloquism? Other than these egregious grammar errors, I can follow you thus far.

You start your next sentence off with "though" implying that you're about to refute a statement. An example would be, "Though Superman has heat vision and the Martian Manhunter is susceptible to flame, J'onn's various other powers more than make up for Superman's fire-based attack."

Wait, that's not what you're doing at all. Instead you just start off with the word "though" and then flow into a statement that doesn't seem to make any sense at all. Instead you merely state that apparently this oddly named "Midknighter" fellow (what comics does he appear in? I don't believe I've ever read them) and Wolverine happen to have what seems to be a "far superior super power" (hey! Bonus alliteration points!), they can thus beat more powerful enemies then Iron Fist. Er, alright.

The next postulation seems to be attempting to establish a point that I believe was made already, in a much more clear manner than what you're saying here... by the person you're arguing with? Then why are you disagreeing with them?

So it's the old if "X" is superior to "Y" and "Y" is superior to "Z," then "X" is superior to "Z," in which "X" represents this bizarre "Midknighter" dude, "Y" is equal, apparently, to Wolverine, and "Z" is a stand-in for Iron Fist deal.

Wait, what is this odd logic in the next statement. Even if you believe the aforementioned equation, then your following argument for why it's invalid doesn't make... any sense at all. If "X" is superior to "Z" then... how exactly is "Z" also superior to "X?"

And how exactly is Mindset himself a conclusion, as evidenced by your fascinating argument "youre conclusion?" And why are you incapable of using apostrophes? And why are you arguing with the exact point he made only using more convoluted and less thought out statements? And why am I refuting what you're saying at length even though it's pretty clear that anyone who reads it would realize it doesn't make any sense? And why do you spell argument like that, not only once but twice, even though KMC has a spell check? And why can't you figure out what the f*ck Midnighter's name is, even though people have already pointed it out? And what on Earth are you trying to say? And why are you speaking in such highfalutin speech when you can't even spell "were" correctly? And why am I so infinitely more clear than you when I've been drinking for the past thirteen hours straight and I'm exceptionally high? And why...

... head explodes

This is possibly the best and funniest post I've ever read on KMC, and is being taken to the "best post of the forum" thread.

Kudos my friend, I believe you just became my favorite poster.

Good fight. I think Midnighter wins but in no way is it one-sided. I'd say he wins 6/10.

Well, Soljer, looks like you got your wish for mixed views. 😛

I think the only way to look at this is the fact in a straight up fight between the two without the IronFist technique Danny loses 10/10.

MN is just skilled, faster, stronger, more durable, better healing factor, etc, etc.

So what does this mean is that for IF to have a shot he is going to have to resort to his IF attack early and often. It is a very draining and straight forward attack though. The type of attack that MN eats for breakfast.

Easy to spot and react to you know the kind of thing MN sees coming easily and avoids easily or understands enough to if he can not avoid places himself in a situation to receive the least amount of damage possible.

I think this fight is MN's to lose and Rand is just a little out of his league here.

Originally posted by spetznaz
Here is the scan.

I'll let it speak for itself.

And I still believe that Midbighter is above Ironfist, no matter how the Captain America fight is taken.

Originally posted by Soljer
The Iron Fist of today is [b]not the Iron Fist of yesteryear. [/B]

Originally posted by spetznaz
Here is the scan.

I'll let it speak for itself.

And I still believe that Midbighter is above Ironfist, no matter how the Captain America fight is taken.

All I really see in that scan is both of them getting good shots in, and Cap coming out holding his ribs.

If anything I would give the advantage to IF.

Besides, as Soljer said, IF today seems to be much more powerful than he was back then.

Originally posted by nimbus006

Besides, as Soljer said, IF today seems to be much more powerful than he was back then.

When did that happen?