the Jack/Liz/Beckett thing

Remember how we analyzed DMC to death when it came out? That we talked about every little thing? I don't think we know AWE as well as we know the other two movies, so I wanted to open up some "vexxing" questions about it, lol.

I'd like to get to the bottom of why Beckett seems to be the biggest sparrabether of all time. Two scenes come to mind.

DMC: Just the atmosphere of this scene is great, the lighting, everything. Beckett comes back to his office at night, probably realizing what a wild goose chase he just sent Will on since Will has not kept in touch with Jack and can only go on educated guesses where to find him. Suddenly, Elizabeth puts a gun to his hand and demands the letters of mark be signed and sealed...apparently pardoning her and Will since "they aren't going to Jack." Beckett utters the famous "fate intervenes" line and messes with Liz's head.

So why bother here? Why bother to set this up? What matters is the compass isn't working for Jack and Tia Dalma will set up the feelings by clueing us in that Jack wants something he doesn't want to want. So why do Elizabeth's feelings matter? And why does Beckett care? He seems to be fishing, distracting her from shooting him. Maybe it's a form of leverage; if he can somehow determine if Jack and Liz have something going on, he can use it against them. But Elizabeth doesn't answer and she escapes, so we don't know what conclusions he's drawn since he doesn't mention it until AWE.

AWE: Jack and Beckett reunited and we still have no idea what the mark Jack left on Beckett is other than being the arch enemy that was never caught. We are also unsure just how annoyed Jack is with Will right now, offering to turn him in and later locking him in the brig. But yet he doesn't raise an alarm when he sees Will has escaped. So...Jack sells him out along with Pintel and Ragetti and Barbossa, which is funny because at least Pintel and Ragetti agreed to go on the rescue mission because they actually missed Jack. Oh well. Jack sells nearly everyone out and says "the rest" go back with him on the Pearl. It is a fair offer, really. Sparrabethers also note that to him, Elizabeth is not a bargaining chip. However, willabethers will say that this makes her no more important to Jack than Gibbs or Cotton and that Will also doesn't bargain with her. But Beckett notes it too.

"And what becomes of Miss Swann?"
"What interest is she to you?"

Grr, answering a question with a question...I hate that. So the way I see it, there could be a few things going on.

1. Beckett is trying to get to the bottom of the nature of their relationship. The novel based on the movie makes the case that Beckett tries to get inside Jack's head and deduces the plan is to screw over Will, retake the heart, and steal Elizabeth for himself...we'll call this the Pirate theory since Beckett is just trying to determine motives and assumes Jack is going to do very piratey things.

2. Beckett is interested in Elizabeth and has his own designs in mind. He knows he can't win against Jack because he never has before so he checks her availability (seeing if she really loves her fiance or Jack) and then tries to get Jack's reaction. Liz is tough, a challenge. It would be easy for Beckett to be into her. We'll call this the Liz Lovefest theory.

3. Beckett is interested in Jack and wants to use Elizabeth to get to him. He probably guessed in DMC that Elizabeth would find Jack before she would find Will and that's why he sent Mercer to follow her. He always speaks of Jack so wistfully and gets close to him when they talk. And just maybe, asking about Liz is fishing for Jack's real feelings about EVERYONE. The fan is very suggestive as is Jack's tone when he replies. He seems irritated and firm in wanting to change the subject. That could mean Jack knows he's in a "gay" situation, so this is the gay theory.

What do you think? Can all 3 be right?

I'd guess it's a little bit of all three, but I am definitely of the opinion that Beckett is in love with Jack. Not that I think Beckett is completely gay or would ever, EVER admit to himself (let alone anyone else) that he was in love with Jack, but there's a fine line between love and hate. Beckett's interest in Jack, and chemistry WITH Jack, are strikingly obvious. Notice how different Beckett behaves when Jack is around???

They understand each other... I am reminded on the scene where they are bargaining, tossing fans back and forth (a subtle hint from the writers?) and then Jack says, "WHo am I?" And Beckett gives him this wide-eyed, curious look like, 'speak again bright angel!' and then Jack says, "I'm Captain Jack Sparrow!" Of course, I think Beckett's feelings for Jack drive him to want to kill him, rather a twisted exhibition of it.

Now, with Liz, my opinion is this. Beckett doesn't give two shakes about Will, so he can't imagine anyone else would either. Because of his own obsession with Jack, he probably can't imagine that any woman would be able to resist him.

You know during the parley sequence, when Beckett says "step right up, claim your reward?" My guess is, the reward is Liz. The continuation of the "and what becomes of miss swann" scene is that Jack trades Will to get him out of the way, and then may take his revenge (wink) on Liz. Something to that affect. What other reward would Beckett be referring to?

Also, I think Beckett would like to have any leverage he could over Jack. If Jack is involved with someone, that gives Beckett a tool to use against him, to manipulate him.

Yes, what other reward could it be? I'm trying to recall the movie from Beckett's point of view. The deal they have is that Jack will lead them to Shipwreck Cove and turn over everyone except his crew. Jack's pretty sure that compass will point to him if Beckett uses it, but yet Beckett seems to prefer capturing all the pirates and then killing Jack, so he holds off.

So the reward is then everyone Beckett "promised" to Jack, including Elizabeth. Parlay is such a cool scene. I'd really have to see where Beckett's eyes are. It's probably no shock to him that Elizabeth and Jack are walking up side by side since he's already concluded there is definitely something going on. So yeah, I can't think of any other reward.

Beckett's imagination and obvious crush on Jack would have been a comical turn of events had it really happened.

(Beckett stares off into space. We are at the parlay scene)

Beckett: Step up! Claim your reward.

Fantasy Jack: Okay!

(He draws out his gun with one hand and his sword with the other. He moves very close to Liz and we're sure he's going to sweep her up and carry her away. But at the last minute, he scoops up Beckett instead.)

Fantasy Jack: Oh and by the way, everyone. The pirates chose to fight...so...ta! (hurls Beckett into the longboat and rows away, whistling happily)

Anyone else have burning questions, plot holes that could be cleared up, general questions, comments on Beckett?

HAHAHAHAHA Ohhhhh Beckett's fantasy.... that was just fantastic. LOVE IT. Slightly OT, but I kept wishing someone would make a funny vid to "Candyman", about Beckett and the other villains.

I am of the firm and unyielding opinion that Jack and Elizabeth crossed some lines after the meeting of the brethren at Shipwreck cove. They way they banter during the parley scene is so full of tension of a physical nature. 😉

How did Beckett know of Jack's compass in the first place? How did he find out about Calypso, Jones, etc? And... what led him to have such ambition that he wanted to take over the seas?

I will say he intrigues me more than Davy Jones. Beckett is scary in his own way. He reminds me of a line in All Quiet on the Western Front. The soldiers always avoid short commanders because the short ones are always a little bit crazy because they feel they have something to prove. Sounds like Beckett.

Well, how long has Jack had that compass? What could be interesting is that he had it before he was marooned the first time, that the compass led them to the Aztec gold. Jack may have always been interested in supernatural treasures and living forever. If that's true, then he and Beckett have had run-ins since Jack was branded a pirate. It's almost like a Sherlock Holmes/Moriarty deal, ha ha. But how could Beckett know what it does?

Yeah, something happened between Jack and Liz after he voted her king because it seemed like they were back to the way they were and Jack wasn't as cold to her. Not saying they hooked up, but something happened.

Girls you write so good things and these interest me.Beckett is quite a smart man and cunning and I think he notices many things.I hate that in AWE we didn't get to know many things about Jack's past including Beckett and of course many other thigs hadn't been solved either.

I'm very intrigued now by what Kate asked...just how Beckett got to be the psychopath he is and how he got obsessed with taking out all the pirates and how he knew about that compass in the first place. Has he ever met Tia Dalma? Could he and Jack have once been in competition for it?

It always made me wonder how he new about the compass.I thought about him meeting Tia Dalma.Dou you think they made out a plan together?

Wouldn't that be cool? Beckett would have to be very familiar with Jack's life to even know about Tia Dalma, so that just reinforces my theory that Beckett is seriously crushing on Jack. What a meeting that could have been, Beckett and Tia. Good thinking!

To Lizzie/Jack

What I myself ask aswell is in DMC when Beckett arrests Will and Lizzie he knows exactly that Lizzie is going to fight for Jack when she tells him it's Captian Jack Sparrow. He's the entire situation glancing at Lizzie, like she would be the solution to get what he wants. Well, he'll probably heard that Will had helped Jack to escape, but why does he stare at her? Somehow or from somewhere he must have got a hint that there's something going on between them because the way he answers and the voice he uses somehow indicates that he knows something, don't ye think? So where did he get the information from? And why doesn't he use the knowledge of it when he's going to negociate with Jack in AWE?

More evidence of Tia perhaps? Good observation, jacky.

But why should Tia help him?? It could be perhaps Norrington, indicating somehing before he left the Navy because he was aboard and saw Jack and Lizzie (on the island, peas and pod scene). Although I don't believe it, but perhaps some other guy from the ship. And Norri knows of Jack's compass. Don't forget that, so it could be probable, what do you think?

Was Norrington really listening when the compass was explained? It's hard to tell since the camera doesn't show him. I figured he would still be throwing up and only half-listening. But if he was listening...

What do you think of this:

- Norrington, drunk and disgruntled, overhears what the compass does.
- Before boarding the Pearl, Norrington has a run-in with Mercer. (Maybe he separated from Liz long enough to take a leak or wash his face off, etc.)
- He and Mercer come up with a deal that if Norrington gets the compass, he can have his career back.
- Norrington puts two and two together and realizes that Beckett wants the compass just to have the chest.
- Norrington observes the wonderful thing that is sparrabeth and gets jealous. Remember he's already bitter and still loves Liz.
- Norrington gets the heart and delivers it to Beckett, divulging all he knows and tells Beckett he thinks Liz and Jack mean more to each other than they let on.

Could that work? Is that plausible? If it is, James, you are a pirate.

I have no idea, but what I meant was in the first movie, when he rescues Jack and Lizzie from the island and when she accepts the proposal, they take Jack up to the helm because he knows the way to the Isla de Muerta and I think he must have used the compass so that James had seen it. And he has already recognised the first time when he meets Jack that the compass is special because it doesn't point north.
I don't think he finds out the real meaning so quickly, but after returning to Port Royal perhaps, but there's still the question then how he gets into contact with Mercer or someone like him?

Lol, I'm so confused! I don't know. I don't know if he would think the compass was special because it didn't point north. I thought he would just think it was broken. Someone have any ideas on how all this works? 🤨

Oh, joy--DUST!! (means goodness involving the what's it and what ifs?)--my take, back end to front, Norrington knows Jack wants what's in the chest, knows that Beckett wants compass from Will by the beach on the beach--takes em both as insurance--one or the other will buy back his place in society and lord love a duck, Pirate! yes, although he does better as a spit and polish pirate, rather than sexy sash/slash/grunge pirate, imho. 😉

Tia Dalma, Jack's little "not so secret secret" of the Pearl and Davey's intervention to raise her and the branding by Beckett, hell, that falls under the stuff of legends surrounding the good Captain Sparrrow (which just brought up a question to myself, always he is "Captain Jack Sparrow",
like is it possible there's a Captain whoknows Sparrow for pete's sake? Or is it common knowledge that Jack's da is pirate? Did Jack say that to Will in PotC becos he had to "square with his pirate blood"?)

Beckett would have been such a little cock of the walk if he did indeed 'capture Jack Sparrow' wouldn't he have? Would have used it to further his reputation, even though I don't know if Jack was technically a pirate at that point. Y'all, Miz Kateloves and Miz WilloftheWisp, just nearly sent me to the rail when y'all first brought up Beckett, he's such a horrendous little toady, (think Jack's face on ship, DMC)--I just had a lovely moment tho', courtesy of Miz Kateloves "Speak again, Bright Angel" Miz Katesloves!! now that bordered on right racy.....and Beckett does look at him like that. lol

Oh, yuck--the fan means Beckett's playing the lady? The flirt? Oh, my.
About the trade, "you can have..." Jack calls Will a festering codpiece, destructively yuck. He knows however, that wherever he will leave Will, Will moves heaven and earth to come to Elisabeth, so he didn't really abandon him--Elisabeth is not so easily controlled, keep your enemies closer, (even if you love/have the hots for them) yeah? Jack's deal with Beckett, smoke and mirrors, like the one he makes with Davey Jones, he has no intention of leaving behind what he considers his and he does consider both Elisabeth and Will his. He did the same with Barbossa. He's bargining.

Man, I'm going back to re-read and ruminate, yeah, I think there's one more (or three) rum portions left, definitely leads the cogitating long the right pier. Ta, dearest Miz WilloftheWisp, you have a most wickedly intriguing mind...just brimming with thoughts to delight.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
He knows he can't win against Jack because he never has before so he checks her availability (seeing if she really loves her fiance or Jack) and then tries to get Jack's reaction.

He can't win against Jack? Wouldn't say that; if there was never a chance of Jack being defeated by anyone or outsmarted, he wouldn't constantly live in his shell of fear, now would he? And it was made evident from the movies that Captain Jack Sparrow was visibly terrified of Lord Cutler Beckett.

I never got terrified out of it. He seemed to strongly dislike Beckett and probably harbored some kind of fear since Beckett is so powerful, but in AWE, if Jack is terrified, he manages to summon up enough bravery to be able to talk to the guy like an equal. It seemed to me they saw each other more as worthy opponents.

As of the moment I was talking about in DMC, I think Beckett knows he can't win against Jack the way things stand, so he needs to up the ante, so to speak, and use Will and Liz against him.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
I never got terrified out of it. He seemed to strongly dislike Beckett and probably harbored some kind of fear since Beckett is so powerful, but in AWE, if Jack is terrified, he manages to summon up enough bravery to be able to talk to the guy like an equal. It seemed to me they saw each other more as worthy opponents.

As of the moment I was talking about in DMC, I think Beckett knows he can't win against Jack the way things stand, so he needs to up the ante, so to speak, and use Will and Liz against him.

Beckett's career wasn't exactly hinged upon a personal vendetta with Jack Sparrow, he was merely the one in possession of the compass that Beckett desired, which is why he manipulated Will and Elizabeth into acquiring it for him. He knew that there was no way in hell that Jack would willingly give it to him nor would Jack have the balls to meet with him [since the meeting would probably have resulted in Beckett taking the compass by force and Mercer decorating the walls with Jack's anatomy].

Well, now there's a take on it, Gideon, new one--I'm Texxy, older and curious. So, let me say back to you what I think I'm reading, prior to putting my foot in my post, so to write--you're thinking that Beckett gave not a fig about Jack other than he posessed what Beckett wanted--the compass--weren't the compass just a tool for the acquistion of DJ's organ? and thereby the control of the seas? And that would have raised Beckett's status, oh, a tad and some, doncha think?