the Jack/Liz/Beckett thing

Originally posted by texgodiva2s
Well, now there's a take on it, Gideon, new one--I'm Texxy, older and curious. So, let me say back to you what I think I'm reading, prior to putting my foot in my post, so to write--you're thinking that Beckett gave not a fig about Jack other than he posessed what Beckett wanted--the compass--weren't the compass just a tool for the acquistion of DJ's organ? and thereby the control of the seas? And that would have raised Beckett's status, oh, a tad and some, doncha think?

Pardon? This didn't exactly translate to sensical or a distant cousin thereof, so I can only assume that you did in fact put your foot in your "post". But I will explain my post.

Willofthewisp made it seem like it was a competition between Jack and Beckett in Dead Man's Chest and that Beckett "couldn't win against Jack so he had to up the ante by using Will and Liz against him" -- it wasn't a freakin' competition or battle of wills. It was entirely agenda-based. Beckett wanted the compass so it could lead him to Davy Jones' heart so he could acquire the aforementioned heart, exort Jones into his service, and thereby directly control the seas. Jack was in possession of the compass, Beckett didn't know where the hell Jack was, but also knew that Jack would never willingly hand the compass over to Beckett nor would he agree to meet Beckett [again, Jack seems frightened of him], so he manipulates two people who are on amicable terms with Jack (Will and Elizabeth) into arranging a trade on his behalf to acquire the compass.

It wasn't an elaborate scheme to LOLZ GET BACK AT JACK. I agree that Beckett loathes Jack, but it's evident that Beckett is willing to set aside his desires (killing Jack) for the greater goal (ruling the world).

Thus my post.

Prior to...before I might misinterpret what you were meaning. I've seen that happen a time or two, you know, I think someone is saying one thing and in my 'assume' I don't get the meaning. (ah, assume...) I was just checking... that's all (see my open hands up towards you--no weapons, no agenda)--I will endeavor in future conversation to be ever so more concise.

I knew that what you posted. I know that some people who want things will use whatever tools are at hand to acquire those things. Beckett uses W/E. The statement from Miz WilloftheWisp was not so much as to identify a competition between Jack and Beckett as the only part, rather to include their competition before PotC as an intergral part of the relationship between the two. Different (parts of) stories, and all are true.

Chill out a little, Gideon. This is a just-for-fun thread about all the what-ifs. I do think Beckett "cares" about Jack for reasons other than the compass, or else he would not have bothered mentioning "marks" left by him and vice versa. That's all. There is a personal thing going on that leads me to believe there is more than the compass between them.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
Chill out a little, Gideon. This is a just-for-fun thread about all the what-ifs. I do think Beckett "cares" about Jack for reasons other than the compass, or else he would not have bothered mentioning "marks" left by him and vice versa. That's all. There is a personal thing going on that leads me to believe there is more than the compass between them.

Oh, I'm fine, I didn't mean to come off as irritated or excited in any way. But what you're offering is total conjecture. I agree that there was a vendetta there, but if there was a personal competition between the two in DMC, it paled in comparison to Beckett's top priority -- the acquisition of the compass.

Originally posted by Gideon
Oh, I'm fine, I didn't mean to come off as irritated or excited in any way. But what you're offering is total conjecture. I agree that there was a vendetta there, but if there was a personal competition between the two in DMC, it paled in comparison to Beckett's top priority -- the acquisition of the compass.

And you don't, darling Gideon (by the way, did I tell you how much I enjoy typing your name?) our cussing and discussing is the spice in this saucy stew!! conjecture, ever so much more wonderful than cilantro to my taste buds--Thinking this way or that and then making a defence of or loading the cannons to take apart the thinking of others, it's how we play and for myself, can't say for others, if you've perused any of the other topics, well, you'll see we love coming up with ideas about this or that and then just a'worrin' the hell outta 'em--think Jack and Barbossa, both shouting orders at the same time, and yes one or the other will accept gracious respite--and then there can be another this or that to include your two cents worth on.

Maybe it's creating information or theories to fill the void of before and after and during the series.....I'm just flat out nosy about what others think. There are no absolutes here guess that's what I'm wanting to say.

I haven't read this whole thread but I definitely think Beckett is really really into Jack.

Why on earth would a man get within 5 inches of another man's face like that and in the manner that he did it. He is a funny little man.

Or maybe he just loves the smell of bad breath. 😘

HAHA!!! I've always been a fan of the "beckett has a crush on jack" theory!!!! lol

It's just what I think is happening. There were other ways for Tom Hollander to play the character that would have been just as menacing without all the "let me come a little closer" moments. Notice how uncomfortable Jack looks with him, not necessarily afraid, but uncomfortable. He knows what's going on.

Oops. Picture doesnt work anymore.

Originally posted by willofthewisp
It's just what I think is happening. There were other ways for Tom Hollander to play the character that would have been just as menacing without all the "let me come a little closer" moments. Notice how uncomfortable Jack looks with him, not necessarily afraid, but uncomfortable. He knows what's going on.

Not necessarily afraid? You think so? I think the interaction between Beckett and Jack made it apparent that the good Captain was quite frightened of his former employer.

Hmm, I'm really trying to explore it and remember. I don't have AWE in front of me, so bear with me, lol. There might be some fear, and there probably is, but I don't think it's the shaking-in-my-shoes kind of fear. I don't think it's the overwhelming feeling that's going on.

Jack seems very VERY reluctant to go on whatever-the-hell Beckett's ship is and there he looks pretty afraid. But it seems to me that Jack is only ever afraid when he isn't confident he can get out of a situation, so as soon as he's in that cabin with Beckett, his mind is already planning things out, looking for the heart and then bargaining with him. Once he seems to have the upper hand, he doesn't seem afraid at all to me. In fact, he seems pretty demanding to me. Now, he's probably still a little bit afraid, but I just don't see the terror.

Jack's remarkable talent is not being in control but rather illusion of control. In truth, it was Beckett who was in control from the very second that Jack was captured by Sao Feng; Beckett held the gun; Beckett had the compass; Beckett had the overwhelming firepower. Jack never had the upper hand at all and was very damn lucky that that capricious little bastard didn't go ahead and shoot him; the only reason that Jack made his miraculous escape is that he correctly pointed out that his death would bring about major inconvenience in the form of a "nigh impenetrable" Shipwreck Cove.

So, I agree absolutely. Captain Jack Sparrow isn't nearly as big of a wimp as everyone likes to think. Personally? The immense bravery of Will Turner is laced quite nicely with recklessness. Sparrow's merely got the gift of self preservation. He rightly avoids Beckett and Davy Jones because he knows that both of them are quite easily capable of having him killed or killing him personally. In fact, Cutler Beckett seems to be the most unflappable and calm of all of the Pirates characters. He doesn't express fear when in the face of danger [when Sao Feng revolts against Beckett and both his ship and the Black Pearl fire upon Beckett's ship, Beckett stands out on the deck (even as canonballs blaze past) with only a demeanor of annoyance)] at all, and look where the hell that got him: i.e. outmaneuvered and left for dead at the conclusion of the movie.

hmmm. id have to agree that ol jack loves the illusion of control...but the very illusion of being in control makes him jump even faster. the important thing is that as powerful and calm and calculated as beckett is (and he IS more than anyone else in the series) once jack has a plan he's jumping a couple of steps ahead everyone else.
while beckett is the person who came closest to knowing what jack's ACTUAL plan was he didn't quite make the cut(in a cut scene in AWE he thinks he wants to get Elizabeth out of the whole thing)...

tom hollander is an amazing actor though...anyone seen him in pride and prejudice? so funny!!! in pirates? VICIOUS!!

as for jack? he's scared. but he's also an amazing actor...after all if beckett knew he was scared would he ever buy his ploys? he put his fear aside to play around with ppl. it's what he does best!!

yeah, have seen him in Pride & Prejudice!!! God, I have to control mysellf everytime not to burst out laughing! I don't know why, just how he plays.

And you're right with Jack jumping forward or coming close when he has a plan, he does the same to Barbosssa. I think it's just one of his actions he does intended or not.

And I don't get what ye meant with making the cut?

all i meant is that beckett could tell jack had other plans...that jack wouldn't keep to his word(entirely) but he never did find out WHAT jack had in mind...i think that's because jack didn't know either...not until the end

I love Jack and Beckett!!! They're like the yin and yang of each other.

in COTBP Jack and Barbossa had the chemistry down. They were two pirate gods, so alike but so different but when then Beckett showed upand he was the exact opposite of Jack...they have chemistry 😄
Jack just has great chemistry with everyone...even rocks!!
I still prefer Barbossa as the bad guy...because secretly I was rooting for him. I love beckett but I wasn't sad when he died...not true with barbossa. Who was your favorite?

Barbossa is my favorite villain, followed closely by Beckett. But they're different. You hate to love Barbossa, but you do, whereas you love to hate Beckett.

Sorry for the double-post, but have you guys ever been on keeptothecode.com? They have some interesting theories in the shipping threads, namely ones about Beckett and the mark.

"Beginning of Dead Man's Chest. Will is brought to Beckett's office for Beckett to negotiate a deal with him. Beckett looks at the branding iron and delivers the line about leaving their marks on the other. Will asks him what mark did he leave on you, as he looks at Beckett's *ss and smirks...camera pans to Beckett's face. Easy to miss...very subtle. But highly amusing."

Does that mean Will has a suspicion????

And check out this one...

"The theory that seems so obvious every time I watch DMC and AWE is that Jack somehow got Beckett indebted to Davy Jones. Whether this happened by accident, coincidence or intentionally I'm not sure, might have been a combination of all three. We all know the way Jack winds his way around words.

Other than wanting to rule the seas and thus the world, seeing as the EIC thrives on trade via sea, Cutler really has no reason to want Davy Jones under his command so much* ...

*You'll say - yeah, ruling the world isn't a good reason at all But that's not my point: I only mean that Davy Jones surely isn't the only way to control the sea, and Beckett acknowledges that many times:

"There is more than one chest of value in these waters."
Referring to Davy Jones' chest, of course, but it speaks of a greater knowledge of powerful magic objects in general.

"There's nothing that can hold against the armada, not with the Flying Dutchman at the lead."
"Nothing we know of."
Acknowledging that there could be any number of magic items, persons, creatures, etc. that could potentially beat the Dutchman.

... or to want the Kraken dead. You could say he's just scared of the Kraken and that's certainly true, it is quite scary! lol But there are surely other krakens in the world; killing the one won't solve that problem - unless that particular one is after him, too!

Suspiciously pointing toward this theory is the whole Wicked Wench business that Beckett was involved in. After all, he turns up in the Caribbean just as Jack's time with Davy Jones is up - maybe the same 13 year deadline counted for him, too! It just makes a lot of sense that whilst making his deal with Davy Jones to get back the ship that would become the Black Pearl after Beckett sunk her, Jack would somehow involve him in said deal, and that's the mark he left on him."

You think there is any validity to these? Is there some huge epic thing going on and the movies are only showing us a small bit?

Probably that's where POTC4 and any other sequels come in....