Originally posted by llagrok
lol, Lucifer wins.Lucifer was mind controlled. The fact that it happened on the Yggdrasil tree didn't really empower Lucifer in any way. They have both been stated to be second to no-one but Yahweh.
okay cannot quiet remember though I seem to remember something about Michael being out of Gods Grace 😕
Originally posted by llagrok
In all fairness, I don't think Michael was fighting with everything he had, but he was definitely trying to stop Lucifer.Fenris was in control of Lucifer's body.
OKay cool.
btw I have seen some different analyses of the Multiverse/universe thing what is your opinion on that what was shaped was only what Luficer wanted to shape and if he wanted he could have shaped a omniverse???
Originally posted by llagrokIf I'm not horribly mistaken, which I might be.
Lucifer created his own Omniverse.
and then later on Elaine did, using the demiurge.
Lucifer was depicted creating a single Universe on panel,
this single Universe was then stated to be a Multiverse by Lucifer's claim.
It's impossible for anyone to create an Omniverse,
withIN the same Omniverse that encompasses either Reality (Marvel or DC)
DC Omniverse = Everything DC
Marvel Omniverse = Everything Marvel.
These OmniverseS have a connection during company cross-overs.
Only the writer/artist avatars seem to be beyond this,
since they actually draw what takes place withIN said Omniverses.
............................................................................
Imo, if all Luc fans have is he shaped a universe or even multiverse,
it isn't enough reason to say he wins against Jaspers 616.
Especially when Jaspers 616's WEAKER counter-part (238)
was more powerful than Matrix/Merlyn (absolute Omniversal power - not just multiversal)
Whether Luc was able to do more or not is speculation,
on the other hand we KNOW Merlyn was able and did manipulate the entire Omniverse,
and yet,
238 Jaspers > Merlyn.
616 Jaspers > 238 Jaspers
Again, no opinion on who wins,
but if it's based on Luc shaping reality, I can say with confidence,
that means nothing. (a fact proven already in Jaspers' case)
Originally posted by llagrok
He was.Still had the Demiurge.
Originally posted by llagrok
In all fairness, I don't think Michael was fighting with everything he had, but he was definitely trying to stop Lucifer.Fenris was in control of Lucifer's body.
The humor just doesn't stop. First of all both were depowered to begin with because God left the Primium Mobile. Secondly, Michael landed on his backs and broke his wings while Lucifer's wings remained in tact. If you took the time to actually read the series, you'd know that the wings are a crucial source of power for angels. Lucifer even acknowledges this during the fight. Not only that, Michael was trying to get Lucifer to snap out of the mindrape more than he was trying to fight him. Michael is depicted as reluctantly hurting Lucifer (reluctant means unwilling fyi). I have the fight on the Michael respect thread.
Originally posted by llagrok
If I'm not horribly mistaken, which I might be. Lucifer created his own Omniverse and then later on Elaine did, using the demiurge.
Lets say he did create a multiverse, which he didn't. That isn't an impressive multiverse cuz Elaine (Duma, Lucifer, and Mazikeen) merged Lucifer's "Multiverse" and creation (God's universe), all into her universe. Her universe>"Multiverse"+universe.
And just to point out Lucifer was outpowered on panel by entities he referred to as the veilliety. He claims his willpower is greater than theirs but they overpowered him and blew this knife he was trying to kill them with back at him. He has to use a girl to kill them because they are too powerful, but they grant the wishes of humans, so he tricked the girl into wishing them dead before she got to wish her brother back to life.