Sasuke- Itachi (Spoiler)

Originally posted by King Kandy
Right but I don't think "Hopeless Optimism" is a good thing if you're a politician, you need to be very realistic and back down if you can't get what you want. For instance, here's another one:

Back in the Chuunin exam, they did that "tenth question" thing where you put your team at risk of never taking the exam again and never becoming chuunin. The idea is that it's good for a shinobi to put themselves at risk to complete their mission, BUT the fact that he took it doesn't make me confident in his ability to know when the risks of many outweigh the possible benefits...

Besides why I think Naruto would make a good Hokage is it optimism, and his kindness, and his ability to change people. I admit he needs to mature a bit and think first sure but still.

Those ally countries are always just allies on the surface. They would backstab him if they got the chance, Sasuke would keep a healthy amount of skepticism about the other countries, and try and keep tabs on them. Naruto would just trust them to do the right thing. Which one will do better when the countries finally come to blows? It won't be Naruto's kingdom since he was totally unprepared.

Naruto put his own benefit (Chuunin) above the risk that two others would lose their chances forever. Good for a Shinobi, bad for a Hokage. How many people can he gt away with doing that for? Can he put his optimism above 200 people's possible deaths? Or 2000 people? Sasuke calculates the risks and decides the best option, Naruto just assumes the best and runs in without thinking. He doesn't avoid confrontations.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Those ally countries are always just allies on the surface. They would backstab him if they got the chance, Sasuke would keep a healthy amount of skepticism about the other countries, and try and keep tabs on them. Naruto would just trust them to do the right thing. Which one will do better when the countries finally come to blows? It won't be Naruto's kingdom since he was totally unprepared.

Naruto put his own benefit (Chuunin) above the risk that two others would lose their chances forever. Good for a Shinobi, bad for a Hokage. How many people can he gt away with doing that for? Can he put his optimism above 200 people's possible deaths? Or 2000 people? Sasuke calculates the risks and decides the best option, Naruto just assumes the best and runs in without thinking. He doesn't avoid confrontations.

And like I said if Naruto just matured a bit and began to think first he'd be better. And running away won't be always an option if they are being attacked while in the village. It's either win or die. The couldn't run from Orochimaru when he attacked with the Sand and Sound who outnumbered them, they couldn't run from Kyuubi who killed a lot of people.

Maybe for now but what happens when they get a new leader? He might not take so kindly to Konoha. Naruto would just assume that their friendship would continue, Sasuke would make sure it was.

Anyway I wasn't advising running away as the best solution at all. I was using that as an instance to show how Sasuke cared more about making good choices then about honor or optimism. He won't always run away, what he WILL do is calculate the best option and then employ it. If the only options are win or die, he'll choose the best one. Naruto will always think of it as win or die, even if there are many more options. Sasuke considers all options. Naruto didn't even consider running away a possibility.

I actually think Naruto would have a better chance at keeping Sand or anything as an ally by actually making friends with them.

Yes but at least Naruto would be so sure of whatever it is he does even if it is wrong. There is always the chance that Sasuke would be to busy weighing everything that it may be to late to make the right choice. The problem with weighing the options is that you don't always have time to.

Also Sasuke wanted to run away from Orochimaru but do you really think Orochimaru would have let Sasuke go just because Sasuke was scared and wanted to live?

Originally posted by Kento
I actually think Naruto would have a better chance at keeping Sand or anything as an ally by actually making friends with them.

Originally posted by Kento
Yes but at least Naruto would be so sure of whatever it is he does even if it is wrong. There is always the chance that Sasuke would be to busy weighing everything that it may be to late to make the right choice. The problem with weighing the options is that you don't always have time to.

Originally posted by Kento
Also Sasuke wanted to run away from Orochimaru but do you really think Orochimaru would have let Sasuke go just because Sasuke was scared and wanted to live?

BTW, who were the other two guys who were protending to be grass ninja?

Originally posted by King Kandy
Maybe but he won't be able to react when they aren't his friends. Also Sasuke is better a compromising.

Oh yeah right. Sasuke makes decisions on the fly (like in the orochimaru example) it took him like what? A second to realize they needed to get out of there. Weighing options doesn't take much time. You do it all the time, whenever anyone asks you a question you consider it and come up with an answer, even if it seems automatic. Yes you almost 100% of the time have options to consider, if being THROWN INTO COMBAT with Orochimaru still gave him time to consider his options, I don't know what situation he would be unable to do so in.

Had a better chance of working then anything else... he was willing to give up his scroll because he assumed Orochimaru was just someone taking the exam. That was the right choice at the time, it had a good chance of succeeding.

BTW, who were the other two guys who were protending to be grass ninja?

Keeping yourself alive or fighting and dying isn't exactly a huge decision for somebody like Sasuke to make. It was his own life not the well being of the village or some country asking for help or anything. Sasuke saw he was overpowered and wanted to run because he didn't want to die.

It had a chance of working if Orochimaru didn't want Sasuke but he had wanted Sasuke so it was a wrong decision. Not to mention they could have gotten the scroll from somebody else so it also wasn't that hard of a decision.

I don't think it ever says who the other two grass ninja were. They were probably just some Sound Ninja flunkies.

Originally posted by Kento
Sasuke may be able to make more allies but the allies I think Naruto would make allies that would be more trustworthy.

Originally posted by Kento
Keeping yourself alive or fighting and dying isn't exactly a huge decision for somebody like Sasuke to make.

Originally posted by Kento
It was his own life not the well being of the village or some country asking for help or anything. Sasuke saw he was overpowered and wanted to run because he didn't want to die.

Originally posted by Kento
It had a chance of working if Orochimaru didn't want Sasuke but he had wanted Sasuke so it was a wrong decision. Not to mention they could have gotten the scroll from somebody else so it also wasn't that hard of a decision.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I disagree. You won't make an alliance because you think the leader of the country is a great guy, you'll do it because both countries can benefit.

Exactly! But it's a decision Naruto couldn't make, that's why Sasuke is better.

Actually no, it was others life as well. He only snapped to his decision after he saw Sakura suffering under the genjutsu Orochimaru used.

It was the right decision given the information he had. All info pointed towards Orochimaru being a Genin, so that's what Sasuke based his decision on

Yea I don't think running from a fight just because you don't want to die makes Sasuke better.

Sasuke also didn't want to die. He wanted to stay alive so he could fight his brother so what other choice did he really have. It was die or escape to get stronger.

I think Naruto would make allies that would be more trustworthy.

Not true. Naruto is too gullible and naive. He would make plenty of friends but they would not be real friends. Any true politician would see Naruto's eagerness to be "friends" as a way to play him and would take advantage of that. As noted above if he was Hokage Konoha would be betrayed alot.

Keeping yourself alive or fighting and dying isn't exactly a huge decision for somebody like Sasuke to make. It was his own life not the well being of the village or some country asking for help or anything. Sasuke saw he was overpowered and wanted to run because he didn't want to die.

Sasuke saw that if he fought then his whole team would die. Orichimaru had already WTFpwned him and Sakura earlier. He was willing to give up the scrolls so that they may both, and live another day. There is never any shame in a tactical retreat.

Damn. Kandy beat me to the punch.

Originally posted by Kento
Yes but everybody Sasuke would make as an ally would be potential enemies also. I think Naruto would probably make more trustworthy allies.

Originally posted by Kento
Yea I don't think running from a fight just because you don't want to die makes Sasuke better.

Originally posted by Kento
Sasuke also didn't want to die. He wanted to stay alive so he could fight his brother so what other choice did he really have. It was die or escape to get stronger.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Nah, people would take advantage of his trusting nature constantly.

No my point is that it shows he makes rational decisions instead of just charging in.

Yes. Whereas Naruto chose dying. I wonder who made the smart decision here?

My point is that he only made the decision because of his want to kill Itachi and fear of death nothing else.

Naruto didn't really choose death. He chose to fight not anything else because he promised he'd never be scared again.

Can you prove that it was just about him wanting to live to kill Itachi? Can you prove that it had had nothing to do with protecting Sakura?

In the Zabuza arc Sasuke was willing to die to save Naruto. He did actually almost die saving him. Sasuke doesn't seriously become obsessed with killing Itachi until the beginning of the SR arc. When he realizes that his development is starting to slow and Naruto's catching up to him in power. When Itachi casually tossed him aside and told him he wasn't intrested in him but in Naruto that was like a slap in the face for Sasuke.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
hmmm, naruto should get either two shurikens with which he can use his wind attacks with, or needs to learn body flicker to move fast. or he needs to learn the third hokage's teleportation seal. MAN shippuden doesnt have ONE decent naruto fight other than the 4 tails. he was simply the encoure against the immortal akatsuki. we need COMPLETE fights of naruto.

on a secondary note, how does the akatsuki heirarchy currently stand?

madara
pain
zetsu
konan
kisame

maybe the kyuubi will be making its debut as a major villian in a while. because i really dont see just madara being the final opposition. its either the kyuubi or pain in some form or naruto vs sasuke.

Originally posted by WO Polaski
Can you prove that it was just about him wanting to live to kill Itachi? Can you prove that it had had nothing to do with protecting Sakura?

In the Zabuza arc Sasuke was willing to die to save Naruto. He did actually almost die saving him. Sasuke doesn't seriously become obsessed with killing Itachi until the beginning of the SR arc. When he realizes that his development is starting to slow and Naruto's catching up to him in power. When Itachi casually tossed him aside and told him he wasn't intrested in him but in Naruto that was like a slap in the face for Sasuke.

At least Sasuke's plan had a chance of working. Naruto's plan (given their understanding of Orochimaru's motives at the time) had absolutely no chance of working.

Given the understanding of Orochimaru's motives niether did Sasukes.

Since at given point Orochi was just testing Sasuke, he wasn't going to let him go at any rate.

Like I said GIVEN WHAT THEY UNDERSTOOD OF HIS MOTIVES (that he was a super-powerful Genin) Sasuke did what was best. He made the right decision given the faulty information.

But why wouldn't the thought have even come up for Sasuke that maybe giving the scroll up would still not save them? If Naruto was able to actually think it I'm actually wondering why Sasuke wasn't able to. Unless Sasuke was just trying to think of someway to get Oro to go away.

hmm, has any1 noticed how sasuke might be currently one of the most powerful characters in the series. i mean think about it. with his own shaaringan and jutsus and skill + all of urochimaru's awesome jutsus and special body traits + itachi's jutsus. lol.