Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Snake knocked Volgin down and made him bleed some.
Before this Volgin did the same to Snake.
1 win, 1 loss.
Then Volgin went and survived everything Snake threw at him and it wasn't enough. It took irony to kill Volgin.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Volgin tanked an RPG. And you expect me to believe Snake can hurt him in H2H? 😐
It depends on what is more beleivable, the fact that Volgin survived an RPG, or the fact than Snake kicked his ass in h2h barehanded, personally the suspension of disbeleif must be when he took that RPG, since it's not intergal to the plot, but Snake beating his ass is definitely integral.
And besides, Volgins electrical power may have had something to do with him surviving the RPG, but you can't use EM powers to stop flesh and bone from impacting against your face, or from breaking your bones in all sorts of h2h grapples like Snake was doing to him.
The question is, what is more "beleivable", and I'm inclined to say that snake whooping Volgin is alot more beleivable than Volgin surviving a rocket, BUT, being that durable is not nessisarily counteracting Snake defeating him.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero1. Volgin tanked a lightning bolt, he was only killed by all the anti-tank bullets around his torso. Volgin was consistently depicted as durable to a great degree. Snake beating his ass is integral to the plot, which is why Snake needed PIS to save his ass. I mean shit, PIS happens for a reason, it happens when Cloud beats Sephiroth, Link beats Ganondorf, or when Batman broke Darkseid's nose with a kick.
It depends on what is more beleivable, the fact that Volgin survived an RPG, or the fact than Snake kicked his ass in h2h barehanded, personally the suspension of disbeleif must be when he took that RPG, since it's not intergal to the plot, but Snake beating his ass is definitely integral.And besides, Volgins electrical power may have had something to do with him surviving the RPG, but you can't use EM powers to stop flesh and bone from impacting against your face, or from breaking your bones in all sorts of h2h grapples like Snake was doing to him.
The question is, what is more "beleivable", and I'm inclined to say that snake whooping Volgin is alot more beleivable than Volgin surviving a rocket, BUT, being that durable is not nessisarily counteracting Snake defeating him.
2. Really? Cause it reached his body before Volgin did anything. You can use electric powers to stop a fist impacting your face. How? Electrocuting it. Volgin has superhuman durability, that should not just protect him from Snake's fists(which it actually does in gameplay), it would protect him from anything Snake could do to him short of an RPG.
3. He survived the rocket, he survived being struck by lightning, survived having the Shagohod explode with him in it, and survived being shot up by Snake first encounter, so him surviving the rocket is believable, since he has so many similar feats, whereas Snake beating Volgin, is not.
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
He took him down when he was in disguise but that didn't limit Snake's abilities.
And all Snake did later was put Volgin down for a few seconds.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Volgin tanked a lightning bolt, he was only killed by all the anti-tank bullets around his torso. Volgin was consistently depicted as durable to a great degree. Snake beating his ass is integral to the plot, which is why Snake needed PIS to save his ass. I mean shit, PIS happens for a reason, it happens when Cloud beats Sephiroth, Link beats Ganondorf, or when Batman broke Darkseid's nose with a kick.2. Really? Cause it reached his body before Volgin did anything. You can use electric powers to stop a fist impacting your face. How? Electrocuting it. Volgin has superhuman durability, that should not just protect him from Snake's fists(which it actually does in gameplay), it would protect him from anything Snake could do to him short of an RPG.
3. He survived the rocket, he survived being struck by lightning, survived having the Shagohod explode with him in it, and survived being shot up by Snake first encounter, so him surviving the rocket is believable, since he has so many similar feats, whereas Snake beating Volgin, is not.
#1: Or is it PIS that Volgin survived the rocket?, his EM field may have blocked it... like Fortune's would have.
#2: Unless your reaction time is slower than that of your opponent, Volgins powers require him to think before it happens, it's not automatic like Fortune's device was.
#3: The lightning bolt f#*ked him up very badly, the Shagohod didn't explode with him in it, just broke down. And if you play it right, Snake only WTFPWNED him in H@H. And name one similar feat pre Snake fight on him surviving the rocket, the only things we see of him are blasting a dude in a barrel, and putting a hole in the wall.
Oh BTW, those Bullets Volgin uses, are only 7.65mm assault rifle rounds, not anti tank rounds... if they where APFSDS rounds, not only would he lose fingers every time he fired, but he'd shred though Snake every time he hit him with them.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero1. No proof he did, and btw, if he did block it, HIS FACE WOULD NOT BE BLEEDING FROM THE SHOT!
#1: Or is it PIS that Volgin survived the rocket?, his EM field may have blocked it... like Fortune's would have.#2: Unless your reaction time is slower than that of your opponent, Volgins powers require him to think before it happens, it's not automatic like Fortune's device was.
#3: The lightning bolt f#*ked him up very badly, the Shagohod didn't explode with him in it, just broke down. And if you play it right, Snake only WTFPWNED him in H@H. And name one similar feat pre Snake fight on him surviving the rocket, the only things we see of him are blasting a dude in a barrel, and putting a hole in the wall.
Oh BTW, those Bullets Volgin uses, are only 7.65mm assault rifle rounds, not anti tank rounds... if they where APFSDS rounds, not only would he lose fingers every time he fired, but he'd shred though Snake every time he hit him with them.
2. Really? Cause I recall Volgin having to put his hand up to make a shield.
3. It hurt him, didn't kill him, and this is a guy who already had 10,000,000 volts of electricity in him. It did explode with him, not a big explosion, but an explosion nontheless. Snake is a trained soldier who would try to get the advantage in a fight. It would be in his character to use his gun against Volgin, who retains all physical advantages, and without PIS would decimate Snake in H2H. I don't need to name a pre-Snake fight feat, that is stupid, he has feats that place his durability at rocket tanking levels.
4. Yet they went right through the Shagohod, which an RPG couldn't blemish.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. No proof he did, and btw, if he did block it, HIS FACE WOULD NOT BE BLEEDING FROM THE SHOT!2. Really? Cause I recall Volgin having to put his hand up to make a shield.
3. It hurt him, didn't kill him, and this is a guy who already had 10,000,000 volts of electricity in him. It did explode with him, not a big explosion, but an explosion nontheless. Snake is a trained soldier who would try to get the advantage in a fight. It would be in his character to use his gun against Volgin, who retains all physical advantages, and without PIS would decimate Snake in H2H. I don't need to name a pre-Snake fight feat, that is stupid, he has feats that place his durability at rocket tanking levels.
4. Yet they went right through the Shagohod, which an RPG couldn't blemish.
#1: concussion wave from the blast would have gone through an EM field, since there's nothing magnetics can do to stop that, BUT it would have fended off shrapnel from the blast
#2: Thank you for proving my point... he had to REACT to Snake's attacks before Snake hit him, his lightning powers don't nessisarily activate at the speed of thought.
#3: You see smoke and flames, but no explosion, if it exploded, then it never would have reactivated when Volgin rode it like a Roman Chariot. So now Snake used his gun in a H2h fight? we clearly know he never did, cause Volgin would have had at least some bullet wounds. You didn't answer the question Jaxx, Everything before the fight never suggested he had anything bar strength pre Snake fight, your using one feat to trounce one weakness, it doesn't work that way...
we have him LOSE to Snake FIRST, THEN we have the RPG durability feat, are we simply to say that Volgin shouldn't have lost the H2h fight because of the RPG?, or are we to say that he sould never have survived the RPG because of the Fight? who are either of us to decide which feat should be accepted and which should be thrown out? We simply can't, it's an inconsistency issue.
#4: Backed by an electrical charge and a punch that can bore through solid concrete, it's a combination of things, that certainly doesn't make the bullets any stronger than what we see from previous clips of him using them.
For example, the one he fired at Ocelot's feet? it it where a APFSDS round, it would have made a hole the size of a basketball in the ground.
#1: concussion wave from the blast would have gone through an EM field, since there's nothing magnetics can do to stop that, BUT it would have fended off shrapnel from the blast
This is a long stretch and unsupported.
Shrapnel doesn't hurt Volgin in the game. Only direct shots do.
#3: You see smoke and flames, but no explosion, if it exploded, then it never would have reactivated when Volgin rode it like a Roman Chariot.
You hear a boom just as the cutscene opens. Then flames accompany it...
we have him LOSE to Snake FIRST,
More like he beat Snake first then lost to Snake then took everything Snake had and kept coming.
are we simply to say that Volgin shouldn't have lost the H2h fight because of the RPG?,
Also the fact he survived an explosion, flames and lightning. Hell, look at all the bullets exploding that it took to put him down.
Even when Snake "won", Volgin just coughed up some blood and got up. He showed no real effect of this "loss" hereafter.
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
This is a long stretch and unsupported.
Shrapnel doesn't hurt Volgin in the game. Only direct shots do.
PK, you mistook what I said, I said the concussion wave, not the shrapnel would have hurt him, because magnetics affect the metal used in sharapnel, but it would have no effect on a concussive wave, hence he would only block part of the damage, not all of it.
Please read what I say.
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
You hear a boom just as the cutscene opens. Then flames accompany it...
And the fact that there is no evidence of an explosion immediately refutes this, an engine breaking down and backfiring does sound like an explosion you realise?
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
More like he beat Snake first then lost to Snake then took everything Snake had and kept coming.
He beat a weakened snake which never tested his DURABILITY in the least, which is my point...
Originally posted by Pyron_Knight
Also the fact he survived an explosion, flames and lightning. Hell, look at all the bullets exploding that it took to put him down.Even when Snake "won", Volgin just coughed up some blood and got up. He showed no real effect of this "loss" hereafter.
Again, you mistook my orgiginal point, I said that it was in order of events, Do we simply disreguard one feat for another?
Remember, Snake PWNING Volgin happened first, Do we disreguard this simply because it happened before Volgin survived a rocket hit? And note, I'm not arguing on either side here, I'm simply trying to straighten out a fact, and the fact is a physically weaker person can indeed defeat a power house with superior skill and speed, this reason, and this reason alone is why Snake whooped him in H2H, I can't stand people complain when this kind of thing happens, they forget that strength and durability, while very useful in a fight, does not immediatyely determine a victor, and it never did.
One last thing, PK please don't jump into an argument if you don;t understand the points of the person your debating with.
PK, you mistook what I said, I said the concussion wave, not the shrapnel would have hurt him, because magnetics affect the metal used in sharapnel, but it would have no effect on a concussive wave, hence he would only block part of the damage, not all of it.Please read what I say.
Okay, I misread. However, if you fire an RPG at Volgin's feet, it does not do damage to him.
And the fact that there is no evidence of an explosion immediately refutes this, an engine breaking down and backfiring does sound like an explosion you realise?
And it produces giant flames too?
Interesting.
Not to mention Volgin's face sports damage when he emrges from the cockpit. He got it from where exactly? He didn't have it before he got out of the Shagohod.
Remember, Snake PWNING Volgin happened first, Do we disreguard this simply because it happened before Volgin survived a rocket hit?
Well, no. Mainly because Snake did nothing remotely close to pwning Volgin.
I'm simply trying to straighten out a fact, and the fact is a physically weaker person can indeed defeat a power house with superior skill and speed, this reason, and this reason alone is why Snake whooped him in H2H,
Except defeat and kill are two different things.
And the team would have to kill Volgin to win.
One last thing, PK please don't jump into an argument if you don;t understand the points of the person your debating with.
I was simply replying to your points. Your overall point was of no interest to me.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero1. So he did tank the rocket? And we also know he did not react in time to block it? Cool.
#1: concussion wave from the blast would have gone through an EM field, since there's nothing magnetics can do to stop that, BUT it would have fended off shrapnel from the blast#2: Thank you for proving my point... he had to REACT to Snake's attacks before Snake hit him, his lightning powers don't nessisarily activate at the speed of thought.
#3: You see smoke and flames, but no explosion, if it exploded, then it never would have reactivated when Volgin rode it like a Roman Chariot. So now Snake used his gun in a H2h fight? we clearly know he never did, cause Volgin would have had at least some bullet wounds. You didn't answer the question Jaxx, Everything before the fight never suggested he had anything bar strength pre Snake fight, your using one feat to trounce one weakness, it doesn't work that way...
we have him LOSE to Snake FIRST, THEN we have the RPG durability feat, are we simply to say that Volgin shouldn't have lost the H2h fight because of the RPG?, or are we to say that he sould never have survived the RPG because of the Fight? who are either of us to decide which feat should be accepted and which should be thrown out? We simply can't, it's an inconsistency issue.
#4: Backed by an electrical charge and a punch that can bore through solid concrete, it's a combination of things, that certainly doesn't make the bullets any stronger than what we see from previous clips of him using them.
For example, the one he fired at Ocelot's feet? it it where a APFSDS round, it would have made a hole the size of a basketball in the ground.
2. This just helps my case.
3. So Volgin was bleeding for no reason? And we see flames coming out, and we heard an explosion, yeah, it exploded. How do we KNOW it was H2H? Snake had his gun, who the hell says it was pure H2H? Really...Even without his durability, Volgin should beat Snake. He can fire about a dozen bullets at one time at Snake, and 12 bullets would kill one person in one blow.
We have the feat of his tanking an RPG, feat of him surviving a small explosion, feat of him not being fried by a lightning bolt, and then look at how many bullets it took to take him down. And then we have his super strength, electric powers, and superior versatility. Yeah, Snake in a realistic fight would lose.
4. I concede this point.
Oh, and Snake isn't really faster than Volgin, striking-wise.
Originally posted by Menetnashté
Sorry, I forgot the scene just went back and looked at it, and Volgin took on an already busted up snake. He was handing Volgin his ass before the boss barged in and took down Snake and she knocked down Volgin in a single blow. Volgin fought snake when he couldn't fight back.
Um...Snake could still fight back. His arms weren't broken. All the Boss did was hit him a few times and knock him down once.
He took more damage on the bridge in theri first fight.
Volgin just beat the shit out of him and he was helpless to Volgin's power.
Oh and Snake took down Volgin AFTER Volgin took his attention away. He could have easily shot Snake first if he wanted to but he chose Sokolov.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. So he did tank the rocket? And we also know he did not react in time to block it? Cool.2. This just helps my case.
3. So Volgin was bleeding for no reason? And we see flames coming out, and we heard an explosion, yeah, it exploded. How do we KNOW it was H2H? Snake had his gun, who the hell says it was pure H2H? Really...Even without his durability, Volgin should beat Snake. He can fire about a dozen bullets at one time at Snake, and 12 bullets would kill one person in one blow.
We have the feat of his tanking an RPG, feat of him surviving a small explosion, feat of him not being fried by a lightning bolt, and then look at how many bullets it took to take him down. And then we have his super strength, electric powers, and superior versatility. Yeah, Snake in a realistic fight would lose.
4. I concede this point.
Oh, and Snake isn't really faster than Volgin, striking-wise.
#1: Jaxx... Seriously now... I said of his reaction times reguarding his H2H fight, not the rocket...
#2: Again, your misusing the contecxt, that comment was reguarding the h2h fight not the rocket...
#1&2: I see now where you 2 may have gotten off track... in terms of the h2h fight, Snake was simply more skilled in the area, Volgin's strength and powers don't nessisarily have a bearing in that unless he can actually get a shot off, which doesn't always work when your train of thought gets inmterrupted whenever you cop a fist to the face.
This obliously doesn't ring true when you have time to set up at least a partial defence against a rocket attack, Volgin wasn't completely undamaged by the RPG remember?
#3: Flames is one thing, explosions are another... your making an assumption based on the fact that the flames are there... if there was an explosion, especially if it's contained, Volgin would have been powder, and if he had enough durability to withstand that, then his own bullets going off would not have killed him.
Versatility? the guy's the electrical powered equivelant of a minotaur, theres no finess or overall standing of skill there, oh yes, he's strong and durable... but as I've pointed out, the inconcistency of his feats draw into question his actual level of ability...