thanos w/ig vs the entire phoenix force*

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The IG answers only to LT?

Thats a bit of speculation there. LT was the only one involved in the comic story powerful enough to bring the IG to a halt.

When assessing the IG's capabilities, we can only go by actual on panel feats, not allusions and a posters personal opinion.

The IG enabled Thanos to kill half the population of the universe and defeat the abstracts in battle.

Impressive.

Phoenixes demonstration of power however goes considerably beyond that.

Once again,

Controlling all that is a universe right down to the sub atomic, within the palm of your hand, is faaaaaaarrrrr superior to fighting for control within such a universe and eventually taking it over.

Its like comparing me to my warring sandbox of ants. 😬

GalacticStorm,

You say that we should go by on panel feats and not posters opinions, but the only thing I've seen from you exerting your personal opinion on other posters, and arguing for pages and pages about the phoenix. (Just look at how fast you quoted my post before I was done editing. You were eager to fight for the phoenix. )
Right off the bat, it should tell you that if you have to argue for pages and pages about the phoenix and constantly have to justify the phoenix's power to other posters, then maybe the phoenix isn't as powerful as you would like others to believe.

Now we all have our own personal opinion and I am not denying that, but I've seen more evidence in favor of the IG stomping phoenix then I have of the phoenix actually winning this battle. You've posted scans of obscure marvel bios of the phoenix, that marvel bios in of themselves don't hold much weight with the comic community. Not to mention you also said on-panel feats only. If that's the case, why are you relying on marvel bio entries on the phoenix?

The only other thing I've seen to justify the phoenix's challenge to the IG is this white-hot room phoenix feat. White I don't discount that, I don't see that single feat as enough to justify the phoenix winning this battle. I haven't one seen this mentioned outside of an x-men comic, while I've seen the IG and the infinity gems mentioned numerous times throughout many varied comics. That alone just lends precedence to how powerful and influential the infinity gauntlet were and still are to the marvel universe. Not to mention, X-men comics tend to tell stories and be in their own little universe without much regard to the overall marvel continuity, and can get quite confusing.

Now, we could go on and on for pages and pages arguing about this, but I've learned that is ineffective, inefficient, and repetitive. I've already said all I can say in this post. You are free to completely disagree with my assessment (as I'm sure you will), but until I see actual hard proof and not just speculation, not marvel encyclopedia bio scans, not loosly tied together strings of evidence, and not one single white hot room feat that supposedly trumps the rest of marvel continuity, then I am going to be completely in favor of the IG.

Until I actually see the Phoenix force actually stand toe-to-toe with the Living Tribunal or toss the entire cosmic hierarchy into chaos, then I won't back the Phoenix Force at all against the IG. I don't mean to be harsh or mean, but that's just how I feel on the matter.

-Evangel94

Originally posted by Xplosive

Abraxas was released and his mission to destroy the Multiverse.
GS is saying that is his role,
but doesn't mean his power is Multiversal and by that

You wanna swallow that comedy, that's on you.

Originally posted by Xplosive

Doesn't that prove that Abraxas needed UN to that and not his own power.

In fact,

Abraxas was NEVER going to use the UN,
Abraxas only wanted the UN so that no one could use it on him:

Abraxas says,

"Put it down Richards, you have no idea"

Reed says,

"Actually Abraxas I do,
You NEVER INTENDED to FIRE the Nullifier for the very same Reason I MUST"

[edit]

Thanos.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing

😆 But you don't have to prove
that Phoenix can manipulate the universe outside of White Hot Room? 😆

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing

Now clam up. The multiverse part has been proven again and again.
You're the one assuming that it's 616 Eternity
when the entire story has been about the Multiverse.

Originally posted by vlaaad12345

My rant can be read just fine,in short it translates to phoenix is a weak b itch who has gotten stopped by people several orders of magnitude weaker then the IG and

you should stop being dumb and get over your hardon for her.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
😆 But you don't have to prove that Phoenix can manipulate the universe outside of White Hot Room? 😆

Her being within the WHR has never in all of continuity been given as a requirement for such high level TK.

Find an on panel statement which gave you this OPINION. The scene mentions its telekinesis. Nothing about an imaginary power up she receives on stepping within the WHR.

The latest bio from November, marks such a feat as part of her powerset.

Sorry mate, you just gotta let that point go 🙁

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Now claim up. The multiverse part has been proven again and again. You're the one assuming that it's 616 Eternity when the entire story has been about the Multiverse.

Nope. The adventures happened across the multiverse because of Abraxas' dimension hopping, however it started in 616 and it was triggered by events within 616.

The UN before and after the instance has never been classified as anything but universal. Even its bio states the same thing. Bios that refer to the event such as Abraxas' talk of how the universe was restored. 🙂

Given that the whole event began in 616 and given the capacity of the Un thats we've found out throughout continuity, its entirely feasible that 616 was reset and AS A RESULT that wiped out of existence all the damage Abraxas had done in all realities.

That ties up all loose ends and fits in with established continuity.

Your interpretations ignores continuity established for the UN.

Nice for you to pop in and give it a go Wiki.

That will be all. 😱

Originally posted by Mr Master
Thanx, but I don't need you to clear up GS' bull shit posts for me.

You wanna swallow that comedy, that's on you.

Everything Abraxas did, he did under his own power.

In fact,

Abraxas was NEVER going to use the UN,
Abraxas only wanted the Un so that no one could use it on him:

Abraxas says,

"Put it down Richards, you have no idea"

Reed says,

"Actually Abraxas I do,
You NEVER INTENDED to FIRE the Nullifier for the very same Reason I MUST"

Ouch. And neither Abraxas nor the UN needed the White Hot Room (or the Green Mellow Mashroom).

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Thanos? Wrong story mate, try Magus 😂

Given that her being within the WHR was never given as a requirement for such feats, you cant ask me to prove she could do it outside the WHR.

Does LT need his headscarf for all his feats? I could say he does and ask you to show me him doing anything special without his headscarf.

HOWEVER.

Given that wearing his headscarf was NEVER EVER given as a requirement for him being top tier then i would be very very silly for opening my mouth and saying such things.

KAY?!!😱

Good try son 😉

So know you want me to show that Magus know the past present and future??? Because I have dropped the merging some while ago... Because I followed your wish...

So you cannot provide proof that she can manipulate any given universe when she outside the WHR at a subatomic level. And if it wasn't a requirement for her to be in the white room then why did she go there in the first place GS?

I cannot show that because as you say the headscarf is a requirement.

It indeed would but I see absolutely no similar points between LT's headscarf and you claiming that the White crown of the Phoenix can take the reality where thanos is located in and manipulate it at a subatomic level in her palm, unless she is located in the White Room.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Her being within the WHR has never in all of continuity been given as a requirement for such high level TK.

Find an on panel statement which gave you this OPINION. The scene mentions its telekinesis. Nothing about an imaginary power up she receives on stepping within the WHR.

Find scans of her performing such a feat without being in the WHR.

The latest bio from November, marks such a feat as part of her powerset.

Sorry mate, you just gotta let that point go 🙁

😆 So what? Bring that bio up.

Nope. The adventures happened across the multiverse because of Abraxas' dimension hopping, however it started in 616 and it was triggered by events within 616.

The UN before and after the instance has never been classified as anything but universal. Even its bio states the same thing. Bios that refer to the event such as Abraxas' talk of how the universe was restored. 🙂

Given that the whole event began in 616 and given the capacity of the Un thats we've found out throughout continuity, its entirely feasible that 616 was reset and AS A RESULT that wiped out of existence all the damage Abraxas had done in all realities.

That ties up all loose ends and fits in with established continuity.

Your interpretations ignores continuity established for the UN.

Nice for you to pop in and give it a go Wiki.

That will be all. 😱 [/B]

Dude, there's been scans posted in this thread and others showing the UN as multiversal. Stop B.S. everyone.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Her being within the WHR has never in all of continuity been given as a requirement for such high level TK.

Find an on panel statement which gave you this OPINION. The scene mentions its telekinesis. Nothing about an imaginary power up she receives on stepping within the WHR.

The latest bio from November, marks such a feat as part of her powerset.

Phoenix has never destroyed even a single Universe outside of a "What IF"
Phoenix has never destroyed/remade/or re-created 616.
Phoenix has never created even a single Universe anywhere (even in What Ifs)

The Phoenix Force did however explode at the touch of Xorn:

......................................................................................

Xorn, KILLING Jean Grey ... and exploding the actual Phoenix Force itself:

......................................................................................

On Panel:

......................................................................................

Beast remembers:

......................................................................................

Bio:

......................................................................................

(From the Official Marvel Universe Handbook 2005)

"Jean Grey was Killed by an Electromagnetic Pulse,

this shattered the Force into Billions of PIECES"

......................................................................................

This incident involving Xorn & the Phoenix Force
was actually recalled by the embodiment of the Phoenix Force itself in "Endsong"

"I thought I was Dead, in a Billion Billion PIECES"

Originally posted by Evangel94
GalacticStorm,

You say that we should go by on panel feats and not posters opinions, but the only thing I've seen from you exerting your personal opinion on other posters, and arguing for pages and pages about the phoenix. (Just look at how fast you quoted my post before I was done editing. You were eager to fight for the phoenix. )
Right off the bat, it should tell you that if you have to argue for pages and pages about the phoenix and constantly have to justify the phoenix's power to other posters, then maybe the phoenix isn't as powerful as you would like others to believe.

Now we all have our own personal opinion and I am not denying that, but I've seen more evidence in favor of the IG stomping phoenix then I have of the phoenix actually winning this battle. You've posted scans of obscure bios of the phoenix, that in of themselves don't hold much weight with the comic community, and remember you said on-panel feats only. If that's the case, why are you relying on marvel bio entries on the phoenix?

The only other thing I've seen to justify the phoenix's challenge to the IG is this white-hot room phoenix feat. White I don't discount that, I don't see that single feat as enough to justify the phoenix winning this battle. I haven't one seen this mentioned outside of an x-men comic, while I've seen the IG and the infinity gems mentioned numerous times throughout many varied comics. That just leads precedence to how powerful and influential the infinity gauntlet was to the marvel universe. Not to mention, X-men comics tend to tell stories and be in their [b]own little universe without much regard to the overall marvel continuity, and can get quite confusing.

Now, we could go on and on for pages and pages arguing about this, but I've learned that is ineffective, inefficient, and repetitive. I've already said all I can say in this post. You are free to completely disagree with my assessment (as I'm sure you will), but until I see actual hard proof and not just speculation, not marvel encyclopedia bio scans, not loosly tied together strings of evidence, and not one single white hot room feat that supposedly trumps the rest of marvel continuity, then I am going to be completely in favor of the IG.

Until I actually see the Phoenix force actually stand toe-to-toe with the Living Tribunal or toss the entire cosmic hierarchy into chaos, then I won't back the Phoenix Force at all against the IG. I don't mean to be harsh or mean, but that's just how I feel on the matter.

-Evangel94 [/B]

Very well argued and i cant fault your stance. Its completely understandable.

However what obscure bios are you referring to? I have neither referenced or presented an obscure bio. I have used the latest offical bio for the character that explicitly details the Phoenixes new powerset as a result of the White Hot Room incident. Hardly obscure my fellow poster. 😬

On top of that, regardless of how many impressive feats you've seen from the IG. If not a single one of them is as impressive as Phoenixes top feats then that is quite irrelevant.

You talk of the WHR incident not being mentioned outside of X-men comics. Neither really is the M'kraan crystal or the Age of Apocalypse but are we to ignore such components of Marvel continuity because of lack of relative coverage? Its verified as continuity by handbooks in addition to its on panel showing therefore its just as valid.

If the cosmic hierarchy derives from and exists within a reality of the sort Phoenix held and manipulated in her palm as if it were nothing, then there really should be no requirement for anyone to see her engaging in fisticuffs within that sandbox for her to be declared top tier.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Nope. The adventures happened across the multiverse because of Abraxas' dimension hopping, however it started in 616 and it was triggered by events within 616.

The UN before and after the instance has never been classified as anything but universal. Even its bio states the same thing. Bios that refer to the event such as Abraxas' talk of how the universe was restored. 🙂

Given that the whole event began in 616 and given the capacity of the Un thats we've found out throughout continuity, its entirely feasible that 616 was reset and AS A RESULT that wiped out of existence all the damage Abraxas had done in all realities.

That ties up all loose ends and fits in with established continuity.

Your interpretations ignores continuity established for the UN.

AGAIN ... bull shit aside!

The entire Multiverse was folding because of Abraxas:

"our Earth is merging with other Alternates"

............................................................................................

Again this Multiversal misalignment is literally ripping the Multiverse apart:

"creatures of the MULTIVERSE Mixing --- Reality folding onto itself"

............................................................................................

Finally what does this lead to?

............................................................................................

"In order to REALIGN ALL that is...we had to END ALL that was."

"In order to REALIGN ALL that is...we had to END ALL that was."

............................................................................................

What was MISALIGNED that NEEDED to be REALIGNED?

The MULTI-VERSE!

............................................................................................

Reed uses the Ultimate Nullifier to banish Abraxas & Remake the Multiverse:

UN erases the Multiverse:

UN Remakes the Multiverse in an instant:

............................................................................................

Is the UN capable of erasing the Multiverse?

............................................................................................

"Should Abraxas reach the NULLIFIER,
He CAN OBLITERATE ALL the COMBINED REALITIES of the MULTI-VERSE"

✅

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing

Dude, there's been scans posted in this thread and others showing the UN as multiversal. Stop B.S. everyone.

Nope. Theres been scans showing Abraxas hopping around the multiverse and theres been speculation that the UN directly reset it all as opposed to reseting just the reality it all started in, thereby eradicating all damage done in others 🙂

The bios support my interpretation. Yours is left out in the cold. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master

Is the UN capable of erasing the Multiverse?

............................................................................................

"Should Abraxas reach the NULLIFIER,
He CAN OBLITERATE ALL the COMBINED REALITIES of the MULTI-VERSE"

✅

Galactus is capable of destroying the combined realities of the multiverse. Simultaneously? ❌

Not conclusive matey. Estabished continuity in all other cases talks of the universal and when the scale of the reset was referred to in the bios it was also referred to as universal. 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope. Theres been scans showing Abraxas hopping around the multiverse and theres been speculation that the UN directly reset it all as opposed to reseting just the reality it all started in, thereby eradicating all damage done in others 🙂

The bios support my interpretation. Yours is left out in the cold. 🙂

The bio also says the Force got broken into billions of pieces. Thanos is going to rape the Force litterally. And I don't mean Jean.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Galactus is capable of destroying the combined realities of the multiverse. Simultaneously?

Not conclusive matey. Estabished continuity in all other cases talks of the universal and when the scale of the reset was referred to in the bios it was also referred to as universal.

You're intransigence has surpassed even your past self,
and I didn't think that was possible.

Jeesh. doh

thanos w/ig easy

Originally posted by Mr Master
Phoenix repaired a Timeline atomically withIN the WHR, nothing more.

Phoenix has never destroyed even a single Universe outside of a "What IF"
Phoenix has never destroyed/remade/or re-created 616.
Phoenix has never created even a single Universe anywhere (even in What Ifs)

The Phoenix Force did however explode at the touch of Xorn:

......................................................................................

Xorn, KILLING Jean Grey ... and exploding the actual Phoenix Force itself:

......................................................................................

[B]On Panel:

......................................................................................

Beast remembers:

......................................................................................

Bio:

......................................................................................

(From the Official Marvel Universe Handbook 2005)

"Jean Grey was Killed by an Electromagnetic Pulse,

this shattered the Force into Billions of PIECES"

......................................................................................

This incident involving Xorn & the Phoenix Force
was actually recalled by the embodiment of the Phoenix Force itself in "Endsong"

"I thought I was Dead, in a Billion Billion PIECES" [/B]

The Phoenix avatar is sentient, mutable energy. It can be shattered, absorbed, channelled and put to use and still come out the other end just fine 🙂

The point has been stated and demonstratde on panel and within bios.

Showing scans of Jean Grey getting blown up out of context does not demean the Phoenixes feats.

You argue that Phoenix has never destroyed a universe. Nor has the IG.

If you want to count alternate reality appearances then there are several instances where the Force has consumed universes.

On top of that, how irrelevant is it to try and make a point out of Phoenix not destroying a reality when she had control of a universe down to the sub atomic? 🙄

With that in mind, if she wished to destroy that universe it would be a simple matter of atomising it.

Your point is quite redundant 🙂

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
The bio also says the Force got broken into billions of pieces. Thanos is going to rape the Force litterally. And I don't mean Jean.

The bio also says that the Force is completely indestructible, mutable sentient life force. So it being shattered into billions of pieces doesnt really matter to its existence does it my friend? 🙁

About Abraxas and his Multiversal power. I mean he was in the existence with only one goal, not to held back and to destroy Multiverse. Why he didn't just destroy it immediately, but was walking from one universe to another and collapsing them?
Why he didn't shatter them simultaneously or at least 10 Universe at the same time?