Originally posted by tauros
He doesn't do that in the movies, though. How does he manage to lose timer after time, being the most powerful Sith and all?
Here is the link to his wookieepedia page and the story of what happened to him after endor.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine#Palpatine_Reborn_.284.E2.80.9311_ABY.29
"Despite Palpatine's viciousness, Luke managed to defeat the Sith Lord in a brief but intense lightsaber duel, slicing off his hand."
And his own force storm killed him.
"but was shot in the back by an enraged Han Solo during the conflict."
Well... doesn't seem very impressive. First getting killed by Vader, then defeated by Luke, then killed by his own force storm and then killed again by a mere blaster.
Some of his feats are impressive, though, but either Lucas totally ruined the stories (as usual) with his talk about redemption and good guys always winning no matter what, or the writers weren't very skilled..
Originally posted by tauros
"Despite Palpatine's viciousness, Luke managed to defeat the Sith Lord in a brief but intense lightsaber duel, slicing off his hand."
It was only from his sister, Leia Organa Solo, that he gained the strength that he needed.
The comic makes it clear that without the force aid from his sister and Anakin Solo that Sidious would have won.
And his own force storm killed him.
The trio cut him off from the darkside and thus lost control of arguably the most powerful attack that can bend time and space.
"but was shot in the back by an enraged Han Solo during the conflict."
As I previously stated,jhis clone bodies deteriorate very fast and by this time his last body was extremely weak and even in this near "death" state he took out a jedi and fatally injured another one who and when his spirit departed his last clone body after Han shot it, his spirit was would become bounded by Brand's dying body and would die with him but if i recall the comic correctly is stated something along the lines of all the jedi assisting in dragging down his spirt.
So he was greatly weakened when Han shot him? Then it is understandable. But I still consider it poor writing to make him lose all the time. The poisoning of all his clone bodies etc, you'd think someone as smart as Sidious would have had them really well protected, and him not killing Luke when he had the chance, but instead trying to turn him. Which is just stupid, since why would he even need an apprentice?
Especially one as powerful as Luke... if I was him, I'd take someone who's not powerful enough to challenge me, but powerful enough to do the deeds. Someone like Darth Maul would have fitted him the best.
I think Sidious is, since he has done impressive feats. Before, I don't know. It's a lot about the moment.. at some points some siths have been really powerful. But stable power? Nihilus and Bane are pretty powerful, and there are others too.
And yes, good guys always winning sucks. The secret apprentice in TFU will most probably become canonically good too. Since they said they talked to Lucas and he kept bringing up redemption.
Originally posted by Gideon
Is Nomi some sort of lightsaber or Force goddess that would suggest that she'd last more than a few seconds against the most powerful Sith Lord in history? I'm more than familiar with Yoda's exploits, and I grant you that wouldn't just be steamrolled. But Palpatine, on his death bed, was capable of owning Jedi in one blast.
Originally posted by darthsith19
Nomi as of TotJ is no goddess, and I never said that she was. One on one yes, she probably wouldn't last more than a few seconds against Sidious, but she isn't facing him alone, she has Yoda on her side. A competent Jedi + Yoda together may be able to defeat Sidious. Alone yes they would both die but together they have a chance I think.
This isn't exactly sufficient evidence, darthsith. Consider what we know about Revenge of the Sith -- Obi-Wan and Anakin Skywalker, despite being the most impressive Jedi dueling team, were unable to overcome Count Dooku in single combat; Anakin was able to do so alone. Mace Windu had three experienced and highly reputed Jedi Masters at his side when he confronted the Supreme Chancellor, yet Palpatine manhandled three of them and pushed Windu back; Windu later won the duel. We have two examples of a Sith Lord being outnumbered and those numbers doing jack as a result. Only this case is different, because Yoda -- by himself -- is not on par with the Emperor as of Dark Empire. That Nomi and Yoda have never worked together, where is your proof that they would make a competent team? While I grant you that her battle meditation would be an asset, it obviously wouldn't begin to close the considerable disparity between Yoda and Sidious before he removed Nomi from the equation. This is not enough to even prove that they have a chance.
Originally posted by Gideon
This isn't exactly sufficient evidence, darthsith. Consider what we know about Revenge of the Sith -- Obi-Wan and Anakin Skywalker, despite being the most impressive Jedi dueling team, were unable to overcome Count Dooku in single combat; Anakin was able to do so alone. Mace Windu had three experienced and highly reputed Jedi Masters at his side when he confronted the Supreme Chancellor, yet Palpatine manhandled three of them and pushed Windu back; Windu later won the duel. We have two examples of a Sith Lord being outnumbered and those numbers doing jack as a result. Only this case is different, because Yoda -- by himself -- is not on par with the Emperor as of Dark Empire. That Nomi and Yoda have never worked together, where is your proof that they would make a competent team? While I grant you that her battle meditation would be an asset, it obviously wouldn't begin to close the considerable disparity between Yoda and Sidious before he removed Nomi from the equation. This is not enough to even prove that they have a chance.
Originally posted by taurosDark empire and empire : betrayal.I haven't read much of the characters from the movies after the movies, after reading the Luke novel which introduced Sun Crusher and other ridiculous things. What books are the ones that Sidious does those things in? What comics? I have all the SW comics, I'll look it up.
As for why luke sliced off his hand, its due to luke being empowered by leia and her unborn child. And why did his own storm kill him? Because THREE force users at the same time cut his connection to the force.
Originally posted by darthsith19
If Nomi uses battle meditation, how will Sidious remove her from the equation while fending off Yoda's saber?
The same way that Count Dooku was able to fend off Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker, both of whom were using their lightsabers and utilizing extraordinary teamwork. He still managed to separate them and disable Kenobi, despite being handily (no pun intended) defeated a short while later by one of them. Meanwhile, we know that battle meditation is neither instant nor easy -- Nomi will not be able to defend herself against the Emperor, though it wouldn't matter even if she could.
Even Yoda isn't enough to protect a defenseless Nomi from someone as powerful as the reborn Emperor, much less capable of defeating him in combat.
Originally posted by Gideon
The same way that Count Dooku was able to fend off Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker, both of whom were using their lightsabers and utilizing extraordinary teamwork. He still managed to separate them and disable Kenobi, despite being handily (no pun intended) defeated a short while later by one of them.
Meanwhile, we know that battle meditation is neither instant nor easy -- Nomi will not be able to defend herself against the Emperor, though it wouldn't matter even if she could.
Originally posted by darthsith19
Okay, so know we've established that Dooku can separate 2 Jedi in lightsaber combat, though I don't see how that is relevant to Nomi using battle meditation.
I don't see what is so painful to understand, darthsith. Count Dooku was able to separate two Jedi who represented the most synchronized and experienced of all fighting teams we've seen, despite the fact that one of them was capable of overpowering and defeating the Sith Lord on his own. What we have here is a Sith Lord being more powerful than either one of his enemies and by a considerable deal (Nomi is but an ant compared to him) and they aren't an experienced team of Jedi. They've never fought side-by-side, it would take evidence to suppose that they could be a complementary team. If Nomi decides to sit this one out and use battle meditation, the Jedi are ****ed harder; battle meditation is neither instant nor easy and she will be completely vulnerable to attack.
Not one on one, no, but again I ask how if Sidious going to attack her while fending off Yoda? btw you think Sidious would beat them right?
Jesus Christ, darthsith! You said that "one on one" Yoda can't stand up to Sidious -- it's exactly what he'll be doing. He'll be facing the Sith Lord in combat without immediate assistance. You're telling me that the more powerful Emperor can't get away or overpower Yoda long enough to fry the totally vulnerable Nomi with Force lightning? You're being ridiculous.
I don't see what is so painful to understand, darthsith. Count Dooku was able to separate two Jedi who represented the most synchronized and experienced of all fighting teams we've seen, despite the fact that one of them was capable of overpowering and defeating the Sith Lord on his own. What we have here is a Sith Lord being more powerful than either one of his enemies and by a considerable deal (Nomi is but an ant compared to him) and they aren't an experienced team of Jedi. They've never fought side-by-side, it would take evidence to suppose that they could be a complementary team. If Nomi decides to sit this one out and use battle meditation, the Jedi are ****ed harder; battle meditation is neither instant nor easy and she will be completely vulnerable to attack.
Nothing is hard for me to underrstand, Gideon - I really don't see what you don't understand. I have already conceded to the lightsaber point so there's really no need to keep discussing it. All I am discussing now is Nomi using battle meditation and Yoda using his saber.
I am not an expert on battle meditation. How long does it take for battle meditation to work? And how will Nomi be vulnerable if Yoda is directing Sidious's attacks away from her?
Jesus Christ, darthsith! You said that "one on one" Yoda can't stand up to Sidious -- it's exactly what he'll be doing. He'll be facing the Sith Lord in combat without immediate assistance. You're telling me that the more powerful Emperor can't get away or overpower Yoda long enough to fry the totally vulnerable Nomi with Force lightning? You're being ridiculous.
Originally posted by darthsith19Dude, have you read Rule of two? The idiot empowering the other 3 jedi during their duel with darth bane was EXTREMELY vulnerable to bane at anytime.I am not an expert on battle meditation. How long does it take for battle meditation to work? And how will Nomi be vulnerable if Yoda is directing Sidious's attacks away from her?
Whats there to say that sidious as of DE couldn't shatter nomi's defences and outright wtf own her?
Originally posted by Ivalice
Dude, have you read Rule of two? The idiot empowering the other 3 jedi during their duel with darth bane was EXTREMELY vulnerable to bane at anytime.Whats there to say that sidious as of DE couldn't shatter nomi's defences and outright wtf own her?
Originally posted by darthsith19
Nothing is hard for me to underrstand, Gideon - I really don't see what you don't understand. I have already conceded to the lightsaber point so there's really no need to keep discussing it. All I am discussing now is Nomi using battle meditation and Yoda using his saber.
In all actuality, darthsith, I have never been confronted with someone so unwilling or incapable of putting two and two together. Not with Nebaris, not with LeGenD, not with anyone. This isn't an insult but fact; the circumstances I'm trying to explain are very simple, so I will try one final time to do get it through to you: Count Dooku was able to separate Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker when both engaged him in lightsaber combat, which you have conceded. I bring this point up because, despite the fact that he would be defeated and killed by one of them and despite the fact that they were the greatest of Jedi pairs and fighting teams, he was able to divide and conquer -- to temporarily remove one from the equation to disable the second -- even though both of them were attacking him. That is exactly the point: Nomi Sunrider, in order to utilize her battle meditation, will essentially have to sit her ass on the floor and bury herself within the Force. She will be completely vulnerable to attack -- my three year old nephew with a kitchen knife would be able to eliminate her with ease. So, it will be Yoda versus Sidious. You've already conceded the point that Yoda does not have a chance against the reborn Emperor in single combat, which is exactly what's going to happen. Sidious is a very cagey and cunning fighter, and if he can't outright kill Yoda before the effects of the battle meditation take place, he is more than capable of disarming him, disabling him, or knocking him aside for the split second it will take to end Nomi's life. Can I be any clearer?
I am not an expert on battle meditation. How long does it take for battle meditation to work? And how will Nomi be vulnerable if Yoda is directing Sidious's attacks away from her?
The same reason that Kenobi and Skywalker were vulnerable to Dooku despite the numerous advantages they had: they outnumbered him, both of them were attacking, and Skywalker himself was sufficient to kill him -- but that didn't stop Dooku from dividing them. Nomi will have to sit her ass down and Yoda will be her only defense.
Calm down dude, you're having some sort of problem understanding. How can he get away from Yoda when they are fighting on the desert floor of Tatooine? Yoda will be on him jumping around with his lightsaber like he always does. How can Sidious get away from that without actually killing Yoda? Yoda will have to be killed first. How long does battle meditation take to work? I don't remember it taking long when Arca and Oden-Uss used it. I could be mistaken, however. Just calm down, okay?
You're being ridiculous, darthsith. The reborn Emperor, if not necessarily superior to Yoda in lightsaber combat, is beyond the Jedi Master in terms of acquired Force strength as of Dark Empire. It's arguable that he can disintegrate the Jedi Master's lightsaber as Yoda brings it to bear. He's more than capable of overpowering him with Force lightning or telekinesis or the vast other arsenal at his disposal. Dooku was able to use the Force, once again, to knock Skywalker back several feet into a metal wall, grip Kenobi with telekinesis, and hurl him across the room into unconsciousness in the span of what? Five seconds? And Skywalker was, at this point, capable of defeating the Count on his own. But Dooku was still able to, momentarily, overpower both of them. Yoda does not have the benefit of being more powerful than the Emperor and his partner will be sitting on her ass, lightsaber deactivated, trying to close the considerable disparity between himself and his Sith opponent. As for me, you're being totally and completely ridiculous about this, and this takes the cake as far as I'm concerned. Not once has this ever been a problem with me. Not to this degree. You're being completely blind.
There was non need to mention Dooku, Gideon, as I already conceeded to that point. Talk about not being able to put 2 and 2 together. 🙄
Sidious is a very cagey and cunning fighter, and if he can't outright kill Yoda before the effects of the battle meditation take place, he is more than capable of disarming him, disabling him, or knocking him aside for the split second it will take to end Nomi's life.
The same reason that Kenobi and Skywalker were vulnerable to Dooku despite the numerous advantages they had: they outnumbered him, both of them were attacking, and Skywalker himself was sufficient to kill him -- but that didn't stop Dooku from dividing them. Nomi will have to sit her ass down and Yoda will be her only defense.
It's arguable that he can disintegrate the Jedi Master's lightsaber as Yoda brings it to bear.
He's more than capable of overpowering him with Force lightning or telekinesis or the vast other arsenal at his disposal. Dooku was able to use the Force, once again, to knock Skywalker back several feet into a metal wall, grip Kenobi with telekinesis, and hurl him across the room into unconsciousness in the span of what? Five seconds? And Skywalker was, at this point, capable of defeating the Count on his own. But Dooku was still able to, momentarily, overpower both of them. Yoda does not have the benefit of being more powerful than the Emperor and his partner will be sitting on her ass, lightsaber deactivated, trying to close the considerable disparity between himself and his Sith opponent. As for me, you're being totally and completely ridiculous about this, and this takes the cake as far as I'm concerned. Not once has this ever been a problem with me. Not to this degree. You're being completely blind.