Top 10 Jedi During Clone Wars

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I meant Ventress was at an inherent disadvantage against Opress. Her chosen form is Jar Kai. And she was still holding her own when Kenobi through her other Saber after she was disarmed of the first.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
But none of that really matters when Kenobi has proven more than once that he's on par with Maul, who seems to be above the caliber of Ventress/Opress.

Maybe that's PIS. Just done for the sake of the Kenobi/Maul plot. But that is what they've shown us now.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
There was another occasion in which she fought off both Kenobi and Skywalker at the same time. Can't remember the episode, but I don't think it was that early.

Season 1 "The Hidden Enemy."

Originally posted by Q99

Kenobi definitely improves over time, and his win over Anakin is not something that Ventress, Maul, or practically anyone else could do.

I'm sure Maul would be on par with the mind phucked Sith Anakin that Kenobi fought on par with.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Ventress' form is Makashi. She should be adept in handling one sword. Maul was never disadvantaged when he only used one side of his lightsaber, and Savage would've been disatvantaged too, given his and his blade's big size in the little space.

Dooku trained her in Makashi, so yeah she is capable with a single blade. I'm just pointing out that her usual form is a Jar Kai/Makashi blend. So that's the form she fights best with. Maul also fights best with his Saber staff, because that was his chosen form of combat. Doesn't mean he can't handle a single blade as well. Of course he can.

Probably true about Opress's disadvantage though.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
And given Opress' other absolutely comparable feats to Kenobi, I don't see why he couldn't fight on par with Maul.

Because both Kenobi and Maul have stomped Opress. Even if you call those fights "one-off's" it's pretty clear they are both above Opress in combat prowess.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Probably true about Opress's disadvantage though.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Even if you call those fights "one-off's" it's pretty clear they are both above Opress in combat prowess.

Might Kenobi be more skilled? Probably, but Opress has ragdolled Jedi through sheer Force strength; Opress is undeniably physically stronger and more powerful, and it's helped him beat Ventress and Koon, both of whom Kenobi has and would struggle very much against.

Originally posted by Intrepid37

No 😬 If they're ''one-off's'', they prove nothing.

Maul's superiority can't really be questioned. They've fought once, Opress challenged him for Mastership and got stomped pretty bad.

Even if we don't see that as the all and end all, it's a pretty big jump to go from that stompage to saying they're on par. Add to the fact that Maul looked better every time they fought together against the same opponent, and his superiority can't really be denied.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I need only refer you to Opress beating the shit out of Kenobi in Revenge.

Problem is Dave Filoni confirmed Kenobi was taken completely by surprise in that fight.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Might Kenobi be more skilled? Probably, but Opress has ragdolled Jedi through sheer Force strength; Opress is undeniably physically stronger and more powerful, and it's helped him beat Ventress and Koon, both of whom Kenobi has and would struggle very much against.

In the past, Yes, but now Kenobi's defeated Opress and consistently fought on par with Maul, so I think it's quite clear he like Maul is above Opress. Probably not a large difference, but there does seem to be a difference.

I never denied Maul's superiority, I'm denying Kenobi's.

^ I know your not a fan of Kenobi's, but he's proven himself to be at least on par with Maul every time they've fought.

He used to be more on par with Ventress but seems to have upped his game after Maul's resurrection.

As late as Season 5 he still struggles with Grievous, who is more or less Ventress' equal.

And I've nothing against Kenobi.

And in their final fight, Obi-wan simply dismantled Grievous.

I'm sure Maul would be on par with the mind phucked Sith Anakin that Kenobi fought on par with.

I have no idea why people think 'very angry Anakin' is such a disadvantage.

This is the same Anakin that cut a bloody swath through the temple, masters and all, and his movements were never described as sloppy or what have you.

Originally posted by Q99

I have no idea why people think 'very angry Anakin' is such a disadvantage.

This is the same Anakin that cut a bloody swath through the temple, masters and all, and his movements were never described as sloppy or what have you.

Vader before the temple raid had gotten ridden of all his fears, and powered himself up with the Darkside according to the ROTS Novel.

Afterwards he begins feeling very conflicted and having regrets(confirmed by Lucas in the audio commentary). We even see him crying while murdering the sepratists.

The novel then confirms right before his fight with Kenobi, that the Fear of losing Padme came back to him, and was deep rooted in his veins.

That kind of fear allowed Dooku to handle Skywalker earlier on, and only after he burnt through those fears was Skywalker able to soundly defeat Count Dooku. And the fear of losing Padme was much worse and rooted more deeply inside him, than his previous fears.

Besides which it's common sense. I mean this is the same Kenobi who was useless against Count Dooku even with Skywalker's aid. Even if we agree the Saber prowess disparity between Dooku and Kenobi is much smaller, there's absolutely no reason why Skywalker would not run through Kenobi as quickly as he did Dooku, unless Skywalker was not as powerful at that point.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
As late as Season 5 he still struggles with Grievous, who is more or less Ventress' equal.

He's beaten Grievous plenty of times even in TCW. At least twice. At one time he beat him when Grievous had the aid of Magnaguards as well.

And Dave Filoni confirmed in a Force Cast interview that when Kenobi beats Grievous in ROTS it's because it's the first time he finally gets him alone for a fair fight.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I think his win over her in TCW movie was quite decisive personally.

I don't. She was able to disarm him in the fight. Plus in the same movie she Force-pwns Anakin and beats him fairly swiftly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't. She was able to disarm him in the fight.

He then went on to dodge all her blows without his Saber, and by the end of the fight it was her who was disarmed of her Saber staff, and then her second Saber. And it was her who ran away from him.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Plus in the same movie she Force-pwns Anakin and beats him fairly swiftly.

You mean in the deleted scene? Pretty sure that's non-canon, since it was deleted and doesn't really fit into the final version.

Skywalker was putting up a decent fight against Count Dooku in that movie.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He then went on to dodge all her blows without his Saber, and by the end of the fight it was her who was disarmed of her Saber staff, and then her second Saber. And it was her who ran away from him.

Well obviously he won. But I wouldn't say he did so decisively, since it was a lengthy fight and she gave almost as good as she got. She disarms him and he, her.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You mean in the deleted scene? Pretty sure that's non-canon, since it was deleted and doesn't really fit into the final version.

Skywalker was putting up a decent fight against Count Dooku in that movie.

This is a deleted scene?

YouTube video

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He then went on to dodge all her blows without his Saber, and by the end of the fight it was her who was disarmed of her Saber staff, and then her second Saber. And it was her who ran away from him.

You mean in the deleted scene? Pretty sure that's non-canon, since it was deleted and doesn't really fit into the final version.

Skywalker was putting up a decent fight against Count Dooku in that movie.

A decent fight? Anakin put Count Dooku on his ass in that movie.

Originally posted by Nephthys

This is a deleted scene?

YouTube video

Yeah its not in the movie.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
A decent fight? Anakin put Count Dooku on his ass in that movie.

Yeah so he was obviously well above Ventress when going all out.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah so he was obviously well above Ventress when going all out.

That shouldn't even need saying my friend.

Besides which it's common sense. I mean this is the same Kenobi who was useless against Count Dooku even with Skywalker's aid. Even if we agree the Saber prowess disparity between Dooku and Kenobi is much smaller, there's absolutely no reason why Skywalker would not run through Kenobi as quickly as he did Dooku, unless Skywalker was not as powerful at that point.

Except for the obvious, Kenobi's a near-equal saber duelist who knows his style well.

Before the final fight, their performances against Dooku or most other foes were not that different.

Common sense answer is, 'they just weren't that far apart, and Kenobi was able to use his knowledge of Anakin and focus on defense to level things enough.'

Kenobi doesn't need to be his equal in power, just good enough to use his skill and knowledge to make up the difference. Just like how he overwhelmed Grevious- raw power is shown to be not the best tool against Kenobi.

Originally posted by Q99

Before the final fight, their performances against Dooku or most other foes were not that different.

Where are you getting this from?

Skywalker almost always performs better against the same foes- Dooku, Ventress, Durge. Even The Son.

But going by consistent showings: Skywalker's on par with Count Dooku. Kenobi's on par with Darth Maul.

Skywalker/Dooku > Kenobi/Maul.

There's a difference, but not a *big* one is my point.

One way to put it is they're one tier apart, but Kenobi is paper to Anakin's rock, which evens them out.