Bane and De Luke gang up on De siddious

Started by Faunus3 pages

Originally posted by Gideon
But I am, because it is an example of the many times where we have all placed great faith in the statement made by a fallible third party. Unless you mean to tell me that you never did, which might be the case, as I can't recall.
It's not the same thing. Calling someone more powerful or better than others of a specific period doesn't quite compare to claiming that an individual is "the most powerful -blank- in history." Statements like that need to come from an omniscient, unquestionable source; Yoda, Kas'im, and Anakin all have their own "blanket" statements, but they all come from the infallible narrator. Sidious is noted as the most powerful dark side Force-user in modern times. Which makes more sense.
The chronology was written by Voren Na'al, who is the head of a council of historians for the Galactic Alliance, a galactic superpower. We put stock in Kreia's blanket statements, as well as those of others, but this guy curbstomps Traya in terms of credibility and resources, so since Sidious has demonstrate feats and other sources corroborate the chronology, why can't we agree?
While I agree that overall, he has a much greater pool of resources to work from, Traya lived in the era in question. She was alive through the Sith War, and he Jedi Civil War, and the hunts that followed. She witnessed firsthand the abilities of her contemporaries, and even trained Revan. So I'd say that, in this matter, her hands-on experiences trump whatever records and secondary sources Na'al might have. Not to mention that she lived, studied, and trained on Malachor V - the "Ossus" of the ancient Sith, so to speak. As a Sith Lord she would've had access to basically everything on the planet, and so one would assume that she'd be able to accurately gauge the limits of those she spent years studying.

Na'al could also have been influenced by his perception of the Darth Sidious who existed in his time; the one who tore holes in space-time. How would he have been able to accurately compare the power of a Sith from one period to a younger Palpatine he barely knew?

I know, and Sidious isn't the only one provided for a blanket statement, Yoda has had them, as has Ragnos. But I'm more or less disagreeing with the logic that you use.
That's fair. I just think calling anyone who's not a Skywalker the most powerful anything in history is a stupid expression of bias on the part of the author. And the fact that Palpatine has so many of them, and all coming from individual characters is irksome.

Originally posted by Faunus
It's not the same thing. Calling someone more powerful or better than others of a specific period doesn't quite compare to claiming that an individual is "the most powerful -blank- in history." Statements like that need to come from an omniscient, unquestionable source; Yoda, Kas'im, and Anakin all have their own "blanket" statements, but they all come from the infallible narrator. Sidious is noted as the most powerful dark side Force-user in modern times. Which makes more sense. While I agree that overall, he has a much greater pool of resources to work from, Traya lived in the era in question. She was alive through the Sith War, and he Jedi Civil War, and the hunts that followed. She witnessed firsthand the abilities of her contemporaries, and even trained Revan. So I'd say that, in this matter, her hands-on experiences trump whatever records and secondary sources Na'al might have.

Na'al, however, has Ancient Sith records and sources to go on, even knowing intimate details of their era's founding and what happened at Ragnos's funeral. Na'al lived in an era of knowledge restoration. He is not a fool, nor ignorant and his knowledge base is at least as impressive as anything from Traya's era.
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Not to mention that she lived, studied, and trained on Malachor V - the "Ossus" of the ancient Sith, so to speak.[/Quote]
Whereas Palpatine was able to pick the minds of the very Sith who had established Malachor V. As well as Nihilus and Bane who had obtained all of Revan's dark side knowledge.

As a Sith Lord she would've had access to basically everything on the planet, and so one would assume that she'd be able to accurately gauge the limits of those she spent years studying.

Na'al could also have been influenced by his perception of the Darth Sidious who existed in his time; the one who tore holes in space-time. How would he have been able to accurately compare the power of a Sith from one period to a younger Palpatine he barely knew?


Presumably because he's got enough records to know things about Exar Kun and Marka Ragnos that not even Traya could have known. The knowledge he has of Nadd and Kun's rather clandestine activities and powers isn't to be scoffed at. He even demonstrates a knowlegde of Palpatine's training under Plagueis-we can surmise this is in part from the Telos Holocron

That's fair. I just think calling anyone who's not a Skywalker the most powerful anything in history is a stupid expression of bias on the part of the author. And the fact that Palpatine has so many of them, and all coming from individual characters is irksome.

Some from individual characters, others from narration and the like, but it's doubtful any of the others have more going for them than Palpatine

The quote about Sidious comes from the narrator in ROTS, not from yoda. I can only assume that the omniscient narrator knows what he (she?) is talking about. Ican get the exact quote tomorrow.

No, it comes from Sidious' entry in the NEC.