STAR TREK: The Forum...

Apologies for being missing the last few days, i loaned my modem to my bro, supposedly only for one night, but that one night turned into the better part of a week...

back now though, and while i don't want to get into an argument, there is one thing i need to say:

Originally posted by Zeitgeist
Probably because having an entire forums worth of content condensed into one obscure, disorganized, alienating thread is both a poor measure of the popularity of a subject and completely misses the mark of a forum's ability to spread out, and pander to the specific wants rather than random, uncontrolled conversation.

this post alone illustrates why one or two threads just isn't enough... star trek is as big as ANY franchise on the planet, and has been one of the longest lasting ones too...

the star trek movie is out next year, and support for it can only get stronger, not weaker given how good it seems to be...

that, added to ten movies (at least half of which are critically acclaimed), 5 tv shows (several of which consistently won emmys every year, as well as massive ratings), books, comics, games, memorobilia...

star trek is still popular, it is still relevant, and with this new movie coming out, it can only get bigger and more popular...

all that said, i want to thank those who have given their support to this idea, i appreciate it very much...

as for those who don't agree, well, to be frank, i don't see any reason why star trek shouldn't have its own forum, nobody will be forced to post in it, but there seem to be plenty of people who DO want to post in it, and that's all that matters imo...

Originally posted by Raoul
Apologies for being missing the last few days, i loaned my modem to my bro, supposedly only for one night, but that one night turned into the better part of a week...

back now though, and while i don't want to get into an argument, there is one thing i need to say:

this post alone illustrates why one or two threads just isn't enough... star trek is as big as ANY franchise on the planet, and has been one of the longest lasting ones too...

the star trek movie is out next year, and support for it can only get stronger, not weaker given how good it seems to be...

that, added to ten movies (at least half of which are critically acclaimed), 5 tv shows (several of which consistently won emmys every year, as well as massive ratings), books, comics, games, memorobilia...

star trek is still popular, it is still relevant, and with this new movie coming out, it can only get bigger and more popular...

all that said, i want to thank those who have given their support to this idea, i appreciate it very much...

as for those who don't agree, well, to be frank, i don't see any reason why star trek shouldn't have its own forum, nobody will be forced to post in it, but there seem to be plenty of people who DO want to post in it, and that's all that matters imo...

QFT

Originally posted by Raoul
Apologies for being missing the last few days, i loaned my modem to my bro, supposedly only for one night, but that one night turned into the better part of a week...

back now though, and while i don't want to get into an argument, there is one thing i need to say:

this post alone illustrates why one or two threads just isn't enough... star trek is as big as ANY franchise on the planet, and has been one of the longest lasting ones too...

the star trek movie is out next year, and support for it can only get stronger, not weaker given how good it seems to be...

that, added to ten movies (at least half of which are critically acclaimed), 5 tv shows (several of which consistently won emmys every year, as well as massive ratings), books, comics, games, memorobilia...

star trek is still popular, it is still relevant, and with this new movie coming out, it can only get bigger and more popular...

all that said, i want to thank those who have given their support to this idea, i appreciate it very much...

as for those who don't agree, well, to be frank, i don't see any reason why star trek shouldn't have its own forum, nobody will be forced to post in it, but there seem to be plenty of people who DO want to post in it, and that's all that matters imo...

Originally posted by Raoul
Apologies for being missing the last few days, i loaned my modem to my bro, supposedly only for one night, but that one night turned into the better part of a week...

back now though, and while i don't want to get into an argument, there is one thing i need to say:

this post alone illustrates why one or two threads just isn't enough... star trek is as big as ANY franchise on the planet, and has been one of the longest lasting ones too...

the star trek movie is out next year, and support for it can only get stronger, not weaker given how good it seems to be...

that, added to ten movies (at least half of which are critically acclaimed), 5 tv shows (several of which consistently won emmys every year, as well as massive ratings), books, comics, games, memorobilia...

star trek is still popular, it is still relevant, and with this new movie coming out, it can only get bigger and more popular...

all that said, i want to thank those who have given their support to this idea, i appreciate it very much...

as for those who don't agree, well, to be frank, i don't see any reason why star trek shouldn't have its own forum, nobody will be forced to post in it, but there seem to be plenty of people who DO want to post in it, and that's all that matters imo...

Naming the potential volume of material is niot really the point. Again, we've just had this whole discussioin with Doctor Who, which has a longer history still- and which, incidentally, has a thread far more active than any Star Trek thread on these boards.

It's not about what could be talked about, it's simply about judging from existing demand whether one is really needed and I am still very unconvinced that this is the case.

I am afraid there is no excusing the point that existing Trek threads are not used much. Other areas have come about due to demand springing out of threads that definitely WERE being used. So you cannot say that the reason the threrad is not being used is because there is too much to talk about. That is not supported by precedent.

As for the 'why not?' attitude- I will repeat onece more, there is a definit and logical sense in only allowing areas that are going to see reasonable use. Otherwise we'd just open up all sorts of nonsense and it would clog the front page. So, there has to be some criteria that we judge by.

And again, past experience has shown that people in a thread like this just asking for a new area does NOT necessarily translate into that area actually being used.

So the only decent criteria is to judge from what is already apparent on the boards- which for Trek is rather poor. Sorry, just is.

Now, if a large amount of buzz about the new film starts to appear and a lot more Trek discussion happens, then that's a good reason for an area. Until then there is absolutely no reason at all why Trek should not just be discussed in one thread, as Doctor Who is.

And you decide if there is one...

Originally posted by Ushgarak
[B]Naming the potential volume of material is niot really the point.

it is when people complain that one thread that already exists isnt being used... star trek is too large for one or two threads...

Again, we've just had this whole discussioin with Doctor Who, which has a longer history still- and which, incidentally, has a thread far more active than any Star Trek thread on these boards.

which is the same thing as i've already said... given the sheer volume of content, expecting it all to be compressed in to one or two threads is silly, imo...

It's not about what could be talked about, it's simply about judging from existing demand whether one is really needed and I am still very unconvinced that this is the case.

as was i, which is the reason i'm only asking now, because it is only now, after years of believing i am the only (or one of the few) star trek fan on kmc, i realised it was not the case through msn and pm conversations with various kmc members... there is a decent enough fanbase, which is the reason i'm asking...

I am afraid there is no excusing the point that existing Trek threads are not used much. Other areas have come about due to demand springing out of threads that definitely WERE being used. So you cannot say that the reason the threrad is not being used is because there is too much to talk about. That is not supported by precedent.

it is because of star trek's large volume of content that it can't be compressed, it can't be looked at like doctor who or transformers, because they simply didn't have the massive amount of discussable content that star trek has... you cant ask star trek fans to seriously discuss the entire scope of the series/movies/etc within the confines of one thread...

As for the 'why not?' attitude- I will repeat onece more, there is a definit and logical sense in only allowing areas that are going to see reasonable use. Otherwise we'd just open up all sorts of nonsense and it would clog the front page. So, there has to be some criteria that we judge by.

if i didnt think there would be a decent amount of traffic, this thread wouldnt exist.

And again, past experience has shown that people in a thread like this just asking for a new area does NOT necessarily translate into that area actually being used.

this thread is not the only indication that a star trek forum would be widely used...

So the only decent criteria is to judge from what is already apparent on the boards- which for Trek is rather poor. Sorry, just is.

because we have nowhere to discuss star trek outside of the next movie... one thread isn't sufficient.

Now, if a large amount of buzz about the new film starts to appear and a lot more Trek discussion happens, then that's a good reason for an area. Until then there is absolutely no reason at all why Trek should not just be discussed in one thread, as Doctor Who is.

there is a large amount of buzz about the new film, and it will only increase as the release date approaches...

put simply, i didn't simply wake up one morning and think 'kmc could do with a star trek forum', i've been considering this for a while, a LONG while, and its only after seeing if there was a base and a decent interest in the possibility of the forum, that i went to raz and then made this thread...

See, you're plain wrong there. Doctor Who has an exceptionally comparable amount (it is older than Trek), and it is being discussed much more, and yet still it's not seen worth giving it its own area.

Seeing as it is more active, giving Trek its own area on that basis would simply nbe showing baseless favouritsm to Trek. It's getting MUCH less attention than Who is.

It is all very well just SAYING there is a buzz about the film- but not on the boards there isn't, and that is the only relevant part. There is no such buzz yet.

If Trek was as popular here as you say, it would be being discussed more. It is NOT a special case that makes it immune to that logic, I am afraid- and that is another fact I state even through I am a Trek fan.

I know why you made the thread. I disagree with you. I don't think it is a sustainable idea- and I certainly don''t think there is any evidence that it is a sustainable idea. There it is.

I'll repeat once more- saying Star Trek is too 'big for one thread, which is why it has never been much discussed around here, is broken logic. Other franchises managed it, Trek can too.

Honestly, the case would be much better made if a decent Trek discussion thread was getting good use.

You made the point again of a cluttered forum. How would a test try for 2 months of a Star Trek forum clutter everything agan?

It's the principle. If we 'test' that, why not 'test' ever other idea that people want?

No, again, the logic is simple- there has to be solid reason to think it is a worthwhile idea before it gets given space, trial run or otherwise. And my opinion is simply that it isn't, and I feel the fact that Trek discussion on the boards so far has been close to non-existent backs my stance.

Saying such things is what this thread is here for, so that's why I keep saying it.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
It's the principle. If we 'test' that, why not 'test' ever other idea that people want?

No, again, the logic is simple- there has to be solid reason to think it is a worthwhile idea before it gets given space, trial run or otherwise. And my opinion is simply that it isn't. That's what this thread is here for, so that's why I keep saying it.

Better still, why not simply try ideas that simply appear to have good grounds to believe they will succeed, and not try ones that don't?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Better still, why not simply try ideas that simply appear to have good grounds to believe they will succeed, and not try ones that don't?

Well if you do not think they are viable that is your own affair. I see very little logic in your idea at all- it is arbitrary and silly. It is very much more straightforward just to open new areas if there is good reason to think therte is reasonable demand, inbstead of some strange and pointless 'monthly' idea. It is also sensible to expect that demand to be backed up by something demonstrable in threads that already exist, seeing how fallible we have seen people simply saying "Yes I would post there" have been.

I am discussing points all the while, and I find your comment about not ridiculing things entirely misdirected and inappropriate.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well if you do not think they are viable that is your own affair. I see very little logic in your idea at all- it is arbitrary and silly. It is very much more straightforward just to open new areas if there is good reason to think therte is reasonable demand, inbstead of some strange and pointless 'monthly' idea. It is also sensible to expect that demand to be backed up by something demonstrable in threads that already exist, seeing how fallible we have seen people simply saying "Yes I would post there" have been.

I am discussing points all the while, and I find your comment about not ridiculing things entirely misdirected and inappropriate.

Well, it really depends how much work creating and closing a new section is. Obviously randomly opening sections is not an idea and again also not what you I said. I was saying that if there is enough support in a poll and if creating a section is really not a ridiculous effort then I see no reasons why there shouldn't be one or two ideas be tested at a time. Obviously there doesn't need to be a new section every month, just if there a reasonable demand in a poll it could be tried out. I don't see the harm in it as it doesn't clutter up the forum at all and might possibly create a very viable and interesting section.

And, sorry, if you don't like the word ridicule, but that's what your last and this post seemed to me. Ridiculing my idea without any real reasons.

Well if that's how you insist on seeing it that is, again, your business.

Meanwhile I think it sets a bad precendent to start opening pointless areas and I think it is entirely reasonable for any new area to have demonstable support inside the forums as is before being opened. And what you feel there is your opinion, so there you go again. I have made my opinion and its reasons quite clear and I disagree with yours.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well if that's how you insist on seeing it that is, again, your business.

Meanwhile I think it sets a bad precendent to start opening pointless areas and I think it is entirely mreasonable for any nee area to have demonstable support inside the forums as is before being opened. And what you feel there is your opinion, so there you go again. I have made my opinion and its reasons quite clear and I disagree with yours.

Okay, I'm a Star Trek fan. I like all the movies, shows, etc. I live in the USA and didn't hear of Doctor Who until I joined KMC and saw people chatting about it and saw Dr. Who sigs. They just started airing Dr. Who here in the States.

I also never knew there was a Star Trek thread here on KMC. It wasn't a lack of interest on my part that kept me from posting on the thread but that I had no clue it existed until someone linked it in this thread.

There are Star Trek forums which do quite well on other sites. I don't know why KMC would be an exception. We get a lot of traffic here and even a section in the Movie Franchises would be cool. The Matrix and Terminator sections don't have much traffic yet they're still here. All we're asking for is consideration for a Start Trek section if there's support for it.

The Matrix section was also one of the largest and most active (outside of the GDF and OTF) on KMC during it's heyday. Also, Doctor Who did not just start airing in the US - it's been on here forever (though I didn't really hear about it until a few years ago myself, but that's more because I generally don't watch TV anyway).

Anyway, I agree with Ush, there's really not a lot to show that it'd be active on KMC. And you can't go by what works well on other forums as a benchmark for what'd work well here.

Originally posted by Peach
The Matrix section was also one of the largest and most active (outside of the GDF and OTF) on KMC during it's heyday. Also, Doctor Who did not just start airing in the US - it's been on here forever (though I didn't really hear about it until a few years ago myself, but that's more because I generally don't watch TV anyway).

Originally posted by Peach

Anyway, I agree with Ush, there's really not a lot to show that it'd be active on KMC. And you can't go by what works well on other forums as a benchmark for what'd work well here.

durofborg durcan

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