GL Hal Jordan vs Silver Surfer · Comic Book 'Versus' Forum

ultimatethor Senior Member

Originally posted by vlaaad12345
Show silver surfer containing a super nova with no strain...o wait he would struggle too lets not forget the whole going insane from the power of 1 red star,imperiex was releasing tons of energy kismet superman had just pierced him and no he didnt have the ion power at that point so theres goes that,im talking about post crisis hal ill try and find the feat,also producing sun level blasts is a herald level feat I never said it was going to **** surfer up you should try reading sometimes,and hal casually one shoted a ion amped alex nero.

Hmm, how about, While SEVERELY weakened SS channeling the crunch enrgies( a feat that Galactus himself said he might not be capable of).

ultimatethor Senior Member

Hal and surfer basically cancel each other out versatility wise but surfer has far greater physical stats( Rivals superman) and greater enrgy feats. He also has a greater power source and does not run out of enrgy cuz he can absorb cosmic rays from practically anywhere so no problems there.

He also can easily create blackholes( far better than hot as star blast). Though he did not actually do it he once said he could create a black hole in a persons pupil.

The Great Galen Restricted

How would SS stack agaisnt Hal if he had his classic(PC) powerset?

Roldz MAJIN_OVERLORD

None too good for him..

Recent would fare a lot better..

jasofisc Senior Member

Originally posted by Roldz
lol.. One sided fight.
+ lets not forget magnetic energy >>>> power ring..

really when was this stated or are you using sarcasim?

Roldz MAJIN_OVERLORD

Mentioned on panel forgut which issue dough..

The charge at that time on the power ring was quite poor too not to mention the yellow weakness. The is why i said one sided...

King Kandy Senior Member

Silver Surfer wins, Hal really wasn't all that impressive.

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Roldz
Actually Kyle contained the bigbang that would have restarted the Universe.. Hal did something similar to a lesser degree, a nova explosion and some other that resembles Surfers feats; like matter to energy conversion, absorbtion and the likes from small to planetary level.. Enterchangeable feats ✅ ...

Imperiex didn't go Big Bang at that moment. He went Big Bang after they temporally boom tubed him and Braniac 13 back into the beginning of time. When Kyle got involved, the heroes were trying to crack Imperiex's armor so that Darkseid could funnel the escaping energy back to their galaxies. And basically, right after the OE, the armada and Superman/Kismet hit Imperiex is when Braniac steals all the energies for himself and Warworld. So how much Imperiex energy was contained by Kyle and how much Imperiex energy was being stolen by Braniac-13, who knows? All I know, is that Kyle didn't contain a Big Bang. The feat's been overblown.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Didn't Kyle retain some Ion power at the time of the big bang feat?

And I think Kyle was tapping into the Ion power. He certainly was not Ion at the time. That's what some DC experts have told me anyway.

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Didn't Kyle retain some Ion power at the time of the big bang feat?

Originally posted by Roldz
Nope.. Ive been fallowing that series but have missed a few issues and unless it was stated in those then im wrong..

Finally. I found the f'ing answer to this. You want something done right, you gotta do it yourself. Kyle was not Ion at the time of 'Our Worlds at War.' He actually became Ion AFTER 'Our Worlds at War.' Now at first, you'd think that'd indicate he couldn't have been using Ion power during 'Our Worlds at War.' But that's only half of the story.

Because at that time, Kyle was unconsciously tapping into the Ion power. From Green Lantern #142-150, Kyle was getting stronger and stronger in power. He didn't understand it at first. He didn't know why until he realized that he was siphoning the Power of the Guardians left over inside the sun, where Hal Jordan left it after he sacrificed himself during 'Final Night.' That was the source of Kyle's classic Ion power. So yeah, Kyle containing Imperiex's energies involved him tapping into the Ion power. He didn't do it under his own Green Lantern power. Now how can we be sure that Kyle was unconsciously tapping into it during the events of 'Our Worlds at War?'

Simple, because his OWAW tie-in issue, Green Lantern: Our Worlds at War, occurs before the events in Superman #173 (where Kyle contains Imperiex's energy). In the GL: OWAW tie-in issue, Kyle is seen on-panel to be wondering why he is becoming more powerful:

Roldz MAJIN_OVERLORD

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Imperiex didn't go Big Bang at that moment. He went Big Bang after they temporally boom tubed him and Braniac 13 back into the beginning of time. When Kyle got involved, the heroes were trying to crack Imperiex's armor so that Darkseid could funnel the escaping energy back to their galaxies. And basically, right after the OE, the armada and Superman/Kismet hit Imperiex is when Braniac steals all the energies for himself and Warworld. So how much Imperiex energy was contained by Kyle and how much Imperiex energy was being stolen by Braniac-13, who knows? All I know, is that Kyle didn't contain a Big Bang. The feat's been overblown.

http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanv2173pg144bd.jpg

He was going bigbang and Kyle contained him a few seconds before all you mentioned happened.. A very impressive feat..

Because at that time, Kyle was unconsciously tapping into the Ion power. From Green Lantern #142-150, Kyle was getting stronger and stronger in power. He didn't understand it at first. He didn't know why until he realized that he was siphoning the Power of the Guardians left over inside the sun, where Hal Jordan left it after he sacrificed himself during 'Final Night.' That was the source of Kyle's classic Ion power. So yeah, Kyle containing Imperiex's energies involved him tapping into the Ion power. He didn't do it under his own Green Lantern power. Now how can we be sure that Kyle was unconsciously tapping into it during the events of 'Our Worlds at War?'
Simple, because his OWAW tie-in issue, Green Lantern: Our Worlds at War, occurs before the events in Superman #173 (where Kyle contains Imperiex's energy). In the GL: OWAW tie-in issue, Kyle is seen on-panel to be wondering why he is becoming more powerful:'

http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ourworldsatwargreenlantern0013.jpg

Or it could be just the ring, it is the most powerfull one ever created.. The creation of Oblivion and GL corps is a good example of it and that took place before the Final Night event..

Def. is something too look into dough..

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Roldz
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=supermanv2173pg144bd.jpg
He was going bigbang and Kyle contained him a few seconds before all you mentioned happened.. A very impressive feat..

No, you need to read it again. Imperiex never wanted to go Big Bang in Superman #173. He was just going around draining galaxies of their energies. He never intended to go Big Bang. In Superman #173, Luthor's plan was to crack his armor, which would allow Darkseid to use his boom tubes to retransfer all that energy to the galaxies he had already drained. The entire alien armada, General Rock's 30 hydrogen bombs, Superman/Kismet altogether hit Imperiex before Kyle surrounded him in a bubble. Imperiex only went Big Bang during the climax where him, Braniac-13 and Warworld get sent back to the beginning of time.

And if that still vexes you, ask yourself this simple question, "If he did go Big Bang during the Superman #173 assault, how did Braniac-13 and Warworld contain those energies?" Because Braniac-13 and Warworld certainly couldn't contain those energies at the beginning of time where he was ultimately defeated.

Originally posted by Roldz
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ourworldsatwargreenlantern0013.jpg
Or it could be just the ring, it is the most powerfull one ever created.. The creation of Oblivion and GL corps is a good example of it and that took place before the Final Night event..
Def. is something too look into dough..

Sorry. you're incorrect again. 'Final Night' happened in 1996. The 'Circle of Fire' storyline, where Kyle creates Oblivion and several green Lanterns from his subconscious occurs at the end of 2000. So yeah, as the GL: OWAW tie-in issue makes clear, Kyle's been tapping into the Ion power during 'Our Worlds at War.' So no matter what you think about what's going on with Imperiex during Superman #173, that scan is an Ion feat. Not a Green Lantern feat.

Roldz MAJIN_OVERLORD

Well I've got vague recollection of World at War, ill take your word for it..

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Sorry. you're incorrect again. 'Final Night' happened in 1996. The 'Circle of Fire' storyline, where Kyle creates Oblivion and several green Lanterns from his subconscious occurs at the end of 2000. So yeah, as the GL: OWAW tie-in issue makes clear, Kyle's been tapping into the Ion power during 'Our Worlds at War.' So no matter what you think about what's going on with Imperiex during Superman #173, that scan is an Ion feat. Not a Green Lantern feat.

Yeah i know that, I was referring to Oblivion's incarnation. It took form at first time Kyle put on the ring and thats way before Final Fight event..

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Because at that time, Kyle was unconsciously tapping into the Ion power. From Green Lantern #142-150, Kyle was getting stronger and stronger in power. He didn't understand it at first. He didn't know why until he realized that he was siphoning the Power of the Guardians left over inside the sun, where Hal Jordan left it after he sacrificed himself during 'Final Night.' That was the source of Kyle's classic Ion power. So yeah, Kyle containing Imperiex's energies involved him tapping into the Ion power. He didn't do it under his own Green Lantern power.

So where does the Starheart fit into all these..

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Roldz
Well I've got vague recollection of World at War, ill take your word for it..
Yeah i know that, I was referring to Oblivion's incarnation. It took form at first time Kyle put on the ring and thats way before Final Fight event..

Oblivion was Kyle's childhood imagination of a comic book supervillain. As far as I recall, Oblivion's first appearance was in the 'Circle of Fire' storyline, which as I previously mentioned, occurred after 'Final Night.' Do you have a scan or particular issue you're referring to?

Originally posted by Roldz
So where does the Starheart fit into all these..

I don't know and I don't believe it's been explained yet. Classic Ion is Kyle Rayner with the entire Power of the Guardians stolen by Hal Jordan as Parallax (Hallax). The Starheart is a conglomerate of mystical energy that the Guardians trapped a long time ago. It's existence had always been separate from the Power of the Guardians. Hallax never had Starheart energies. A good portion of these energies were residing within Jade (which was a consequence of classic Ion Kyle's actions).

Those Starheart energies inside Jade eventually recombined with Kyle Rayner in 'Infinite Crisis.' He became the second manifestation of Ion as a consequence of that. As Ion-2, Kyle could now tap into the Central Power Battery and the Starheart energies. Which by fan opinion is decidely weaker than having the entire Power of the Guardians at your immediate disposal like classic Ion.

And then, it turned out that Ion-2 Kyle was housing the Ion entity. Ion was the embodiment of will like Parallax was the embodiment of fear. So when did the Ion entity first graft onto Kyle? When he absorbed the Starheart energies in 'Infinite Crisis?' Doesn't make sense since the Starheart's energies are actually mystic in origin and do not originate from the Power of the Guardians. It would make no sense for the Ion entity to be living inside Starheart energies. Maybe it grafted onto Kyle when he first absorbed Hallax's left over energies in the sun? That doesn't really make sense either, since that would mean Hallax also had Ion inside of him and he would have contained both Fear and Will inside him.

My guess? The Ion entity has resided in Kyle since he first became a Green Lantern. He was the last servant of pure willpower as Hallax corrupted the Power of the Guardians. Even after classic Ion Kyle divested himself of the Power of the Guardians and became a normal Green Lantern, the Ion entity was still inside of Kyle, dormant and weaker. This is why the Guardians referred to him as the torchbearer all throughout and leading up to 'Infinite Crisis.' It was only until Kyle obtained the Starheart energies that the Ion entity "reawoke" inside Kyle. Which made Ion-2 Kyle an even larger target for Sinestro.

I'm sure Geoff Johns will eventually explain it all before 'Blackest Night.'

Roldz MAJIN_OVERLORD

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Oblivion was Kyle's childhood imagination of a comic book supervillain. As far as I recall, Oblivion's first appearance was in the 'Circle of Fire' storyline, which as I previously mentioned, occurred after 'Final Night.' Do you have a scan or particular issue you're referring to?

http://img430.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2greenlanterncircleoffire02203.jpg
http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2greenlanterncircleoffire02216.jpg
Oblivion is Kyles vent up emotions, which was release after his GF (Alex) death, it happened way back in GL #54 before final Night events..

cont. this later.. gotta go 😄

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Roldz
http://img430.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2greenlanterncircleoffire02203.jpg
http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2greenlanterncircleoffire02216.jpg
Oblivion is Kyles vent up emotions, which was release after his GF (Alex) death, it happened way back in GL #54 before final Night events..
cont. this later.. gotta go 😄

I know that Oblivion was created in Kyle's subconscious mind way before 'Final Night.' In fact, Oblivion was a childhood imagination of the ultimate supervillain. But let's be clear, Oblivion didn't appear on-panel in Green Lantern #54, that's just when Alex died. And I think it's fair to say that he didn't appear to Kyle in any form or attain any significant power until 'Circle of Fire,' well after 'Final Night.' Indeed, your scan is from the 'Circle of Fire' storyline. Thanks for the scans though. Still interested in your take since you actually read comics rather then rely on over-inflated myths.

fangirl101 Restricted

silver surfer wins. he can keep absorbing power from anywhere. he may even be able to absorb hal's ring. and then he's more durable. his skin is more durable than the gl shields. well. maybe not. some of the gl shields held up well against superman prime. i guess it depends on who's concentrating. but if hal has to concentrate on his shield with the surfer, he won't be able to stop from being turned into a fudge sickle. or de-evolved into an amoeba. did I spell that right? too lazy to look it up. anyway, surfer wins prolly 7 or 8 out of ten. all long fought hard battles of course.
fangirl101.

Roldz MAJIN_OVERLORD

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I know that Oblivion was created in Kyle's subconscious mind way before 'Final Night.' In fact, Oblivion was a childhood imagination of the ultimate supervillain. But let's be clear, Oblivion didn't appear on-panel in Green Lantern #54, that's just when Alex died. And I think it's fair to say that he didn't appear to Kyle in any form or attain any significant power until 'Circle of Fire,' well after 'Final Night.' Indeed, your scan is from the 'Circle of Fire' storyline. Thanks for the scans though. Still interested in your take since you actually read comics rather then rely on over-inflated myths.

http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2greenlanterncircleoffire02216.jpg

Yah, the scans were taken from circle of fire and it states in there that just after his GF died kyle negative emotion was expelled by his ring, Oblivion's incarnation/birth.. The difference between that version and the Circle of Fire version is that his more in control of his power ( like what he says in the scan, " It took me a year just to manipulate the visible spectrum"😉.. Thats all the proof needed that Oblivion was created before Circle of Fire and Final Night storyline..

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Because at that time, Kyle was unconsciously tapping into the Ion power. From Green Lantern #142-150, Kyle was getting stronger and stronger in power. He didn't understand it at first. He didn't know why until he realized that he was siphoning the Power of the Guardians left over inside the sun, where Hal Jordan left it after he sacrificed himself during 'Final Night.' That was the source of Kyle's classic Ion power. So yeah, Kyle containing Imperiex's energies involved him tapping into the Ion power. He didn't do it under his own Green Lantern power. Now how can we be sure that Kyle was unconsciously tapping into it during the events of 'Our Worlds at War?'

http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ourworldsatwargreenlantern0013.jpg

Scan above, GL: OWAW tie-in issue.. He is referring to the control of his construct and lack of limit in his power (ring).. Its not enough evidence for me to think that his tapping IONS powers and if you think about it, there's really no difference in tapping the energy left by Hal and the charge from OA battery (kyles ring).. Its exactly the same source..

ION is the totality of the Guardians energy left in the sun.. This is when Kyle absorbs all the energy and turns himself into ION before that there was no ION power...

So in reference to OWAW, that was all Kyle.. My 2 cents..

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
My guess? The Ion entity has resided in Kyle since he first became a Green Lantern. He was the last servant of pure willpower as Hallax corrupted the Power of the Guardians. Even after classic Ion Kyle divested himself of the Power of the Guardians and became a normal Green Lantern, the Ion entity was still inside of Kyle, dormant and weaker. This is why the Guardians referred to him as the torchbearer all throughout and leading up to 'Infinite Crisis.' It was only until Kyle obtained the Starheart energies that the Ion entity "reawoke" inside Kyle. Which made Ion-2 Kyle an even larger target for Sinestro.
I'm sure Geoff Johns will eventually explain it all before 'Blackest Night.'

Well i think the Ion entity resided in Kyle's ring thats why it had no limits and Why classic Ion was far more powerfull than the latter incarnations..

Ill explain later, ive got to go to bed...lol Early work tommorrow..

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Roldz
http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2greenlanterncircleoffire02216.jpg
Yah, the scans were taken from circle of fire and it states in there that just after his GF died kyle negative emotion was expelled by his ring, Oblivion's incarnation/birth.. The difference between that version and the Circle of Fire version is that his more in control of his power ( like what he says in the scan, " It took me a year just to manipulate the visible spectrum"😉.. Thats all the proof needed that Oblivion was created before Circle of Fire and Final Night storyline..

I think we actually agree on this point. Because as you point out, Oblivion had no real power and had no on-panel feats until Kyle started tapping into the Ion power and giving his subconscious creation of Oblivion actual power in 'Circle of Fire.'

Originally posted by Roldz
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ourworldsatwargreenlantern0013.jpg
Scan above, GL: OWAW tie-in issue.. He is referring to the control of his construct and lack of limit in his power (ring).. Its not enough evidence for me to think that his tapping IONS powers and if you think about it, there's really no difference in tapping the energy left by Hal and the charge from OA battery (kyles ring).. Its exactly the same source..
ION is the totality of the Guardians energy left in the sun.. This is when Kyle absorbs all the energy and turns himself into ION before that there was no ION power...
So in reference to OWAW, that was all Kyle.. My 2 cents..

It's been described on-panel by Kyle that his tapping into the Ion power allows him to do things he never could do before. Indeed, he hasn't done anything close since giving up the Ion power. While the Power of the Guardians inside the Ion power and inside the Central Battery are from the same source, Kyle w/ Ion power is not equal to Kyle w/ just his Green Lantern ring. It's disingenuous to equate the two. Having the ability to tap into Ion power and having a Green Lantern ring are different scenarios and have no bearing on any standard Green Lantern thread whatsoever.

Since Kyle was tapping into the Ion power during 'Our Worlds at War,' as made clear by the scans, containing Imperiex is not a Green Lantern feat attributable to his Green Lantern ring. Which matters in this thread particularly, because Hal Jordan does not have access to this Ion power anyway. It's arguable that Kyle was not using any Ion power in that scan, but considering the timing of the GL: OWAW tie-in issue, I think it's waaaaay farfetched to say that he wasn't subject to this significant power boost. My 2 cents.

Originally posted by Roldz
Well i think the Ion entity resided in Kyle's ring thats why it had no limits and Why classic Ion was far more powerfull than the latter incarnations..
Ill explain later, ive got to go to bed...lol Early work tommorrow..

That would make sense, but Sinestro pulled the Ion entity out of Kyle's body and not his ring. Semantics? Maybe. And in my opinion, Kyle's ring still had limits and he only started surpassing them when he started tapping into the Ion power. Said limits are back in place right now.

starlock Team Authority

Its long thread, so sorry if i state a former fact, Hal/Prallax also tapped the anti monitor power which was left over from COIE, so its not clear exactly what Ion's power is made up of....since so many equate(hal/Kyle/parallax) them as the same(which i do not)

So the energy left by hal could have also had the anti monitors energy with it..or not?

Marvelknight Authority

Silver Surfer 9/10.