Originally posted by Starscream M
in h2h combat?
the issue alf saying bulleye gott his ass kick was not h2h either and bulleye again was toying with punisher and it was only through bulleye cockyness and punisher durability that punisher was able to win.
No, I see your point, Jinzin. I'm just trying to look at this as realistically as you possibly could if these characters did indeed exist in the real world. I like comics, but I haven't actually read a whole lot, so take my stance on these things with a grain of salt.
Skill alone can get you past other factors such as size and strength, but there comes a point where it's not enough to see you through a fight who's that much faster and stronger than you. For example, a dude like Bob Sapp isn't by any stretch one of the world's greatest fighters, but he's a contender because he can simply overpower his opponents. True, he's been beaten at least once by smaller, more skilled fighters, but I don't think that would've been the case if the big bastard were even a bit quicker than them.
You're probably right about peak humans not being that much slower than Spider-Man, but he would still have the ability to get in more hits. And though he doesn't have the technique to maximize the power behind those hits, his own natural power is devastating in comparison to what we've seen from peak human characters. On the other hand, if we apply what they've been shown to stand up to on-panel to a real-world scenario, then you're right about them being able to take it.
Agree to disagree?
Crap.... I forgot what the original debate topic was 'til I saw the header. 😕
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
No, I see your point, Jinzin. I'm just trying to look at this as realistically as you possibly could if these characters did indeed exist in the real world. I like comics, but I haven't actually read a whole lot, so take my stance on these things with a grain of salt.Skill alone can get you past other factors such as size and strength, but there comes a point where it's not enough to see you through a fight who's that much faster and stronger than you. For example, a dude like Bob Sapp isn't by any stretch one of the world's greatest fighters, but he's a contender because he can simply overpower his opponents. True, he's been beaten at least once by smaller, more skilled fighters, but I don't think that would've been the case if the big bastard were even a bit quicker than them.
You're probably right about peak humans not being that much slower than Spider-Man, but he would still have the ability to get in more hits. And though he doesn't have the technique to maximize the power behind those hits, his own natural power is devastating in comparison to what we've seen from peak human characters. On the other hand, if we apply what they've been shown to stand up to on-panel to a real-world scenario, then you're right about them being able to take it.
Agree to disagree?
As I've stated before, I don't think it's fair to subject some characters to real world restrictions and not others. If you're going to use suspension of disbeleif on one character it should apply to all. Cause when you start arguing over how characters "should be" you start arguing about a character that doesn't exist.
When it comes to the level of skill that people like Cap, and DD are weilding you have to realize that what they do is not only lightyears ahead of anything a guy like Bob Sapp can imagine, but also realistically impossible. Through their skill and conditioning, high tier street levels can hurt, reel, and even KO comic characters who are capible of lifting 40 tons, even more. Captain America's skill has helped him to bring down Thor in spite of the power difference. There may be a point, even in comics where the level of skill these guys are toting around can't compensate for the raw power of an opponent, but Spiderman isn't at that level, and he's not that opponent.
What he has is an equalizer for his lack of training or effort. If he trained his superhuman body to the peak of it's effeciency and had half the fighting know-how as guys like Cap and Wolverine, then he'd be another beast entirely. As it stands, he only just enough to take out most street levels, but they always give him a hard time.
Agreed to disagree then. 🙂
Originally posted by llagrok
mmm, why I do believe that's pure ABC logic.
and hes beaten Bullseye as well.... doh
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Bulleye clearlly. this is just a dumb thread.Punisher did not stomp bulleyes at all. I actuall recall bulleye toying with punisher the entire fight which is the only reason he lost.
No he was not, but I know what you're going to say.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
no it was with weapons though he was completely toying with punisher and punisher had a lot of firer power with him and got a sneak attack off.
Exactly, the thread is H2H.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
the issue alf saying bulleye gott his ass kick was not h2h either and bulleye again was toying with punisher and it was only through bulleye cockyness and punisher durability that punisher was able to win.
Man you really dont know what you're talking about do you?
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
You're probably right about peak humans not being that much slower than Spider-Man, but he would still have the ability to get in more hits. And though he doesn't have the technique to maximize the power behind those hits, his own natural power is devastating in comparison to what we've seen from peak human characters. On the other hand, if we apply what they've been shown to stand up to on-panel to a real-world scenario, then you're right about them being able to take it.
Thats the whole point. If Spiderman isnt much faster and the peak humans have a massive skill advantage they could counter everything that Spiderman uses like Captain America did in Civil War.
H2H I expect Punisher to win -his unarmed combat skills are vastly underated and he has an inhuman pain threshold. He is far more than the 'thug with a gun' that a lot of people think he is. And Bulleseye using that 'spitting loosened teeth' attack should never be a factor in this fight, b'cos even in comics, it should be impossible for a non superhuman to spit that hard
Originally posted by BUSTER1
H2H I expect Punisher to win -his unarmed combat skills are vastly underated and he has an inhuman pain threshold. He is far more than the 'thug with a gun' that a lot of people think he is.
👆
Originally posted by BUSTER1
And Bulleseye using that 'spitting loosened teeth' attack should never be a factor in this fight, b'cos even in comics, it should be impossible for a non superhuman to spit that hard
Its a comicbook of course its possible. Anyway its not allowed in this thread.
Yeah, all spiderman stuff aside, I do agree that Punisher should take this fight home. Bullseye usually puts up good tustles against DD, but those fights are almost always one sided and him running away for the latter half of them. His fight against DD and Elektra in DD volII is a uncharacteristically high showing that only happened because he was playing off their CIS for eachother.
They both have an inhuman pain threshold but I think that Punisher is simply a bit stronger than Bullseye he'll most likely flat out overpower Bulls like Crossbones did.
Originally posted by jinzin
Yeah, all spiderman stuff aside, I do agree that Punisher should take this fight home. Bullseye usually puts up good tustles against DD, but those fights are almost always one sided and him running away for the latter half of them. His fight against DD and Elektra in DD volII is a uncharacteristically high showing that only happened because he was playing off their CIS for eachother.They both have an inhuman pain threshold but I think that Punisher is simply a bit stronger than Bullseye he'll most likely flat out overpower Bulls like Crossbones did.
They both have an inhuman pain threshold but I think that Punisher is simply a bit stronger than Bullseye he'll most likely flat out overpower Bulls like Crossbones did.
If we're talking about the same fight, Crossbones used the table to gain an advantage on Bullseye, which he won't have in a hand to hand fight.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
still trying to see how I was incorrect with my statement. bulleye got beat by punisher through cockyness and punisher durability.thats the only reason he lost. he was wtf toying with punisher the entire arc.
Bullseye is always cocky. He wasnt trying to kill him but he knew if he lost Frank would kill him, thats why he befriended the kid. The only time we see durability is when Frank got stabbed in the arm apart from that it was Frank using skill to beat him.
Frank has actually beaten up Bullseye before apparently, so he wouldnt underestimate him.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Bullseye is always cocky. He wasnt trying to kill him but he knew if he lost Frank would kill him, thats why he befriended the kid. The only time we see durability is when Frank got stabbed in the arm apart from that it was Frank using skill to beat him.
No I really think he was that unfriad of punisher that he truelly thought he did not need the missle launcher.
No really frank durability and Bulleyes cockyness is what allow Punisher to gain an advantage. Bulleye was litterally laughing at him during the fight.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Frank has actually beaten up Bullseye before apparently, so he wouldnt underestimate him.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
not that cocky. He really was toying with punisher badly.No I really think he was that unfriad of punisher that he truelly thought he did not need the missle launcher.
No really frank durability and Bulleyes cockyness is what allow Punisher to gain an advantage. Bulleye was litterally laughing at him during the fight.
Im not going to compare cockyness but hes always cocky. Bullseyes is pure evil he killed a kid and his mother because the kid spilled his ice cream. In that series he killed some guy for fun and messed with his head. Now you tell me why somebody like that would just decide to be nice to a kid?
Originally posted by Battlehammer
No he has not. They had one other fight and in it Bulleye toys with Frank and pritty much stomps him even though Frank go a sneak attack and had some heavy firer power. The fight was interupted but Frank was getting beat.
You are thinking about Bulleyes greatest hits. Bullseye got beaten in the countdown arc in the Punisher series but I have to get the issues myself to verify exactly what happened.