cyborg superman vs depowered tyrant

Originally posted by illadelph12
I'd have to disagree with you (and Avlon) on that line of reasoning Trickster. Taking over non-sentient machines and taking over a techno-organic life form which is near abstract level isn't particularly analogous. Unless you think Henshaw could beat Unicron, Primus, or Magus of the Technarchy as well simply because they are part or wholly mechanical.

I think you're making a false distinction. Primus and Unicron are high end abstracts in physical form. Magus is nowhere near that, and IMO, beatable by Henshaw.

Tyrant is not near abstract in his depowered state.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I think you're making a false distinction. Primus and Unicron are high end abstracts in physical form. Magus is nowhere near that, and IMO, beatable by Henshaw.

Tyrant is not near abstract in his depowered state.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I think you're making a false distinction. Primus and Unicron are high end abstracts in physical form. Magus is nowhere near that, and IMO, beatable by Henshaw.

Tyrant is not near abstract in his depowered state.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Do you consider Galactus abstract level?

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
No... because he doesn't consider someone who's supposedly equal to Galactus abstract level. 🙂

Who knows.

Probably abstract level... but before he does that, I want to hear him say he's wrong. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Who knows.

Probably abstract level... but before he does that, I want to hear him say he's wrong. 🙂

Originally posted by Avlon
Hey hey...I've never stated anything of that sort amigo. 😠

I simply stated that there is a lot of untapped power in Cybertron which could be the determining factor of this particular battle. So far Henshaw is the better technopath. Tyrant is the (allegedly) uber cosmic being.

A standard Henshaw without powerup's took a respectable amount of damage from Parallax and kept going for a while. Same guy who effortlessly ko'd Supes with one punch. Tyrant had problems with Thanos.

The Last Autobot should be able to whip both Henshaw or Tyrant. The guy can rip and combine souls with a thought.

[Av]:
Forgive me for misreading then.

How about this:

The Last Autobot and Primus (Cybertron being his body) are both sentient cybernetic organisms. Are you saying Henshaw can override their control over their own forms (as Trick is alluding that Hank could do to Tyrant's being)?

Also, regarding Underbase (seeing as to how it gave Starscream near unlimited power when he usurped control over a portion of it), are you sure it would give Hank the same benefits given that Hank isn't a Cybertronian? I'm not so sure the same results could be garnered. I don't think Spike Witwicky would become all powerful by grabbing hold of the Underbase. Also, the Underbase is no longer on Cybertron, in fact, it was actually destroyed in the same story arc.

[Trickster]:
Has Henshaw ever taken over a sentient cybernetic being's body, of equal or greater power than himself, and used it for his own ends against that beings will? Not just a powerful construct like Warworld, or the inanimate chunk of the Source Wall. I mean something sentient and living.

Originally posted by illadelph12
[Av]:
Forgive me for misreading then.

How about this:

The Last Autobot and Primus (Cybertron being his body) are both sentient cybernetic organisms. Are you saying Henshaw can override their control over their own forms (as Trick is alluding that Hank could do to Tyrant's being)?

The Last Autobot, Unicron, and Primus are way too high on the cosmic scale for Henshaw to realistically be able to do anything to them. These are characters that take "power" to a whole different level.

If either character can tap into their power (since they lie dormant within Cybertron) then it's an easy win.

However, should any of them actually wake either Primus or the Last Autobot... they're both getting their asses whooped...and badly at that.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Also, regarding Underbase (seeing as to how it gave Starscream near unlimited power when he usurped control over a portion of it), are you sure it would give Hank the same benefits given that Hank isn't a Cybertronian? I'm not so sure the same results could be garnered. I don't think Spike Witwicky would become all powerful by grabbing hold of the Underbase. Also, the Underbase is no longer on Cybertron, in fact, it was actually destroyed in the same story arc.

The legend always stated a being. It was never said that it would specifically have to be a cybertronian. When Starscream bathed in it's light for even that split second, it powered him up considerably. The only catch was that most beings couldn't absorb the whole thing since it would result in madness or death.

Spike is an interesting example, but humans in comics get powered up from all sorts of ridiculous things...gamma bombs, cosmic radiation, lightning and chemicals, toxic waste...etc. I would say it's a good possibility Spike would have been able to handle at least a bit of it...definitely not anywhere near the whole thing though.

Henshaw is already mad (could it make him madder? who knows) and he's immortal, so neither should be a problem for him. You're right about the underbase though, which is why I brought up that Cybertron has always had powerful artifacts laying around. It was just an example.

Since you're well educated on TF lore, the comics Matrix was able to be tainted by evil and powered up it's user. Even Prime was able to use some matrix power just because he had prior exposure to it (and he was just a bodyless head at the time.) Then there is nucleon, I wonder what effect that stuff would have on the combatants. It was some pretty wicked stuff.

Damn, I feel like reading some of those arcs again now.

Originally posted by Avlon
The Last Autobot, Unicron, and Primus are way too high on the cosmic scale for Henshaw to realistically be able to do anything to them. These are characters that take "power" to a whole different level.

If either character can tap into their power (since they lie dormant within Cybertron) then it's an easy win.

However, should any of them actually wake either Primus or the Last Autobot... they're both getting their asses whooped...and badly at that.

The legend always stated a being. It was never said that it would specifically have to be a cybertronian. When Starscream bathed in it's light for even that split second, it powered him up considerably. The only catch was that most beings couldn't absorb the whole thing since it would result in madness or death.

Spike is an interesting example, but humans in comics get powered up from all sorts of ridiculous things...gamma bombs, cosmic radiation, lightning and chemicals, toxic waste...etc. I would say it's a good possibility Spike would have been able to handle at least a bit of it...definitely not anywhere near the whole thing though.

Henshaw is already mad (could it make him madder? who knows) and he's immortal, so neither should be a problem for him. You're right about the underbase though, which is why I brought up that Cybertron has always had powerful artifacts laying around. It was just an example.

Since you're well educated on TF lore, the comics Matrix was able to be tainted by evil and powered up it's user. Even Prime was able to use some matrix power just because he had prior exposure to it (and he was just a bodyless head at the time.) Then there is nucleon, I wonder what effect that stuff would have on the combatants. It was some pretty wicked stuff.

Damn, I feel like reading some of those arcs again now.

Henshaw hasnt taken over anything sentient and he sure as hell isnt taking over Tyrant. Tyrant has the same advantages as Henshaw but is a lot more powerful. This isnt even close. He is up there below Galactus. Henshaw is nowhere near Galactus and is around Superman level.

Originally posted by illadelph12
[Av]:
Forgive me for misreading then.

How about this:

The Last Autobot and Primus (Cybertron being his body) are both sentient cybernetic organisms. Are you saying Henshaw can override their control over their own forms (as Trick is alluding that Hank could do to Tyrant's being)?

Also, regarding Underbase (seeing as to how it gave Starscream near unlimited power when he usurped control over a portion of it), are you sure it would give Hank the same benefits given that Hank isn't a Cybertronian? I'm not so sure the same results could be garnered. I don't think Spike Witwicky would become all powerful by grabbing hold of the Underbase. Also, the Underbase is no longer on Cybertron, in fact, it was actually destroyed in the same story arc.

[Trickster]:
Has Henshaw ever taken over a sentient cybernetic being's body, of equal or greater power than himself, and used it for his own ends against that beings will? Not just a powerful construct like Warworld, or the inanimate chunk of the Source Wall. I mean something sentient and living.

I agree that if either of them wakes up the heavy hitters beneath the surface, they're both boned.

Motherboxes, the Tribunal's main computers, Apokolip's central command system, honestly though, I don't know. You should ask Avlon. I'm partially carrying this on because durquanchi is an idiot and he's not trying to defend his guy at all.

In terms of technopathy, he might be able to take over Tyrant's body, but whether he can take him out that way is iffy.

Avlon: Can you answer his question about Henshaw and sentients? Also, can either of them take the Matrix? 😕

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Avlon: Can you answer his question about Henshaw and sentients? Also, can either of them take the Matrix? 😕

He's taken over alien bodies before and the guard that he completely transmorphed is still technically a new god. To me, the source wall trumps all that as beings like Darkseid, Galactus, or Tyrant would all be screwed if they touched the wall while Henshaw made a world out of it.

As for the Matrix, either Henshaw or Tyrant should be able to tap it's power BUT it's possible that the Matrix could corrupt either one of them as it did to Thunderwing.

Reading TF comics, they had some badass weaponry as well. Rarely did a transformer carry a weapon/gun that was just a simple laser of some type.

^ yup, megatron's cannon was an aperture from a white hole.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I agree that if either of them wakes up the heavy hitters beneath the surface, they're both boned.

Motherboxes, the Tribunal's main computers, Apokolip's central command system, honestly though, I don't know. You should ask Avlon. I'm partially carrying this on because durquanchi is an idiot and he's not trying to defend his guy at all.

In terms of technopathy, he might be able to take over Tyrant's body, but whether he can take him out that way is iffy.

Avlon: Can you answer his question about Henshaw and sentients? Also, can either of them take the Matrix? 😕

Tyrant stomps him wherever the fight because he can do anything he can do and is on a whole other level of power.

Go ahead and throw your durs up while you keep avoiding my questions. Is Galactus abstract level or not?

Originally posted by quanchi112
In terms of tecnopathy he doesnt ahve the sheer experience with it that Tyrant has as he 's been around for a long time. One guy wanted to defeat Superman as his goal while the other was beating on Galactus one of the most powerful marvel beings in continuity today.

Tyrant stomps him wherever the fight because he can do anything he can do and is on a whole other level of power.

Go ahead and throw your durs up while you keep avoiding my questions. Is Galactus abstract level or not?

Galactus, abstract level? Sometimes. Not in those scans.

Furthermore, Henshaw has the experience advantage in technopathy, sir.

Originally posted by Avlon

"Quick! Let's try and find some event and warp it around for teh winsz!"

Yeah I know like Henshaw saying that Superman nearly killed him and interpreting it as Koed.

Originally posted by Avlon
Baseless speculation. What we do know is that all 3 are very advanced and it the top tier of things.

With all of Cybertrons resources (depending on the version) it's a free for all for whoever can tap into it first.

I dunno about that Galactus is an abstract being and that tech belongs to him it most likely is one of the most advanced tech in the MU.

Yep, Galactus and Celestial tech are pretty much up there in the hierarchy. One can argue that the tech from the Omniverse Guardians is still better.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yeah I know like Henshaw saying that Superman nearly killed him and interpreting it as Koed.

I dunno about that Galactus is an abstract being and that tech belongs to him it most likely is one of the most advanced tech in the MU.

Your evidence is circumstantial. Henshaw said "He," "almost," "did it."

I maintain Spectre showed up and tried to kill Henshaw but wasn't powerful enough, and therefore Henshaw is the baddest thing in DC comics. FTW.

Originally posted by jadervason
Your evidence is circumstantial. Henshaw said "He," "almost," "did it."

It most likely refers to being almost killed. Superman has punched his jaw off before. You can clearly see hes making a big deal about it, hes gonna make a big deal about being Koed?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
It most likely refers to being almost killed. Superman has punched his jaw off before. You can clearly see hes making a big deal about it, hes gonna make a big deal about being Koed?

It goes against everything Henshaw is, but sure. I agree with you. Superman's punch is greater than a galaxy destroying, power battery blast.

But wait.

Henshaw IS Superman. He's even more durable. So you're saying a suicidal man nearly died at the hands of a lesser being than himself?

Please stop.