WWH w/Gem of Cyttorak vs Thanos

Originally posted by quanchi112
The power gem made Thor more powerful than we have ever seen Hulk.

Thor couldnt break free and neither can Hulk. It would take time. Its still a win.

Its an easy win. Thor was trying to break out and would do so in time same here. Thanos for the easy win.

Scans please, because it looked to me as if Thor was in suspended animation. Once again you ignore the more substantial evidence... the fact that a bearer of the Ruby Gem of Cytorrak will not allow its avatar to be rendered to the state that Thor was in (suspended animation).

You said that Thor was on a greater power level than Hulk has ever been... this is highly arguable being that Green Skaar held an entire planet together.... this of course is also not the issue, please stop deviating in an effort to prove that Thanos has any hope in beating the Hulk with an enormous mystical amp and invulnerability.

Thanos will lose.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So Thanos lies to himself in his own thoughts prior to gaining the power gem?

Heres some of the proof scale back if you want more and more. I back up my case with on panel evidence.

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Question:

How do you show that something has infinite power, if we don't take statements? Does it have to have an energy wave beside it, that says
"*<--- Infinite Powa!
-Stan"?

Just a little confuddled here.

well, by beating someone below a skyfather would be a start . . . i love the gem excuses though about subconsciously using it, and not understanding it. cracks me up everytime.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, by beating someone below a skyfather would be a start . . . i love the gem excuses though about subconsciously using it, and not understanding it. cracks me up everytime.

Well the Champion did have to teach Titania how to use it, so it's not really that suspect.

Originally posted by quanchi112

sweet! so vulcan's power IS limitless because it was claimed to be so, and sentry DID stalemate galactus because it was claimed to be so. hulk's strength is ALSO limitless (and at least his strength feats come close to supporting that claim -- hellacloser than anyone who's had the PG)

but . . . more importantly -- it was claimed the juggernaut is truly unstoppable, ergo he would easily walk out of the cube! 😱

well done, quan, you proved my argument. 😄
(still lmao at you believing the cube thing would work . . .)

and i am in love with your new-found logic. it's the kind of logic that could cause a revolution around here:

claim=proof
seemingly=definitive
potential=reality
thanos=truth teller

😆

you're cute when you try to be smart. 😄

fact: hulk's feats>>pg gem feats. deny it?
fact: wwh stated to be STRONGEST HULK EVER. deny it?

conclusion: on panel HULK>PG. 😆

you're just po'd because you know it and can't do a thing about it. hell, thanos himself compared a pg wielder to hulk. 😂

i know, i know the gem WOULD be infinite if someone who knew anything about power actually COULD tap into it. too bad noobs like thor and champion are clueless when it comes to power. :rollover:

and thor in wm went through adam and ss simultaneously and was holding his own against that same team he used the pg against. you really have no clue (period) how much the gem helped him since he was already in wm and far far stronger than normal thor.

regarding the strange countering the IG scan (can you really not have seen it??) -- show me the 'kick' and i'll consider showing you. heh

ps--i did NOT know bb was a skrull, but it's funny you only mentioned it after smurph brought it up! 😂 and regardless, the power of the simulated voice was clearly impressive but i relent on the point since it's impossible to say if it could or could not have matched the real bb's voice. thanks for pointing it out smurph. 😉

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Well the Champion did have to teach Titania how to use it, so it's not really that suspect.

doesn't change the fact though. 😬

Wouldn't the gem teleport Juggerhulk back if he got teleported, could Thanos even teleport him to begin win.

What? Why don't we make up some more powers. And no, it wouldn't. Thor teleported him, he didn't come back.

Why wouldn't he be able to teleport him? Give me one reason.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, by beating someone below a skyfather would be a start . . . i love the gem excuses though about subconsciously using it, and not understanding it. cracks me up everytime.

You can't prove unlimited power without statements. 😬

Not saying that the PG is unlimited, and not saying it isn't, however, we can only go by statements to prove something like this.

====================================

Juggernaut owing Cyttorak, by simply rushing him and ripping the Ruby from his forehead:

Strange tries to stop Juggs who's stomping Cyttorak to death:

So Strange starts getting owned by Juggs:

Unfortunately if the Ruby is not on Cyttorak, it doesn't function,
so Juggs power supply is cut off, and he gets the Ruby blasted out of his grip by Nova:

Ruby goes back to K.O.'d Cyttorak's forehead:

Cyttorak himself explains that the source of the cosmos he embodies is linked to the Ruby:

====================================

Imo, Power Gem > Ruby of Cyttorak

Originally posted by CaptainStoic
Scans please, because it looked to me as if Thor was in suspended animation. Once again you ignore the more substantial evidence... the fact that a bearer of the Ruby Gem of Cytorrak will not allow its avatar to be rendered to the state that Thor was in (suspended animation).

You said that Thor was on a greater power level than Hulk has ever been... this is highly arguable being that Green Skaar held an entire planet together.... this of course is also not the issue, please stop deviating in an effort to prove that Thanos has any hope in beating the Hulk with an enormous mystical amp and invulnerability.

Thanos will lose.

Who cares if he held an entire planet together? He turned onto a human when he battled Sentry. Pretty limitless huh. He cooled down in the middle of the battle.

Prove the gem of Cytorrak can allow him to break this field.

Thanos wins easily. Either bfr or energy containment block. Thanos will bat him around a few times like Thor before he ends this.

Originally posted by cyberborg84
So, [b]seemingly limitless = actually being limitless? [/B]

Originally posted by leonidas
sweet! so vulcan's power IS limitless because it was claimed to be so, and sentry DID stalemate galactus because it was claimed to be so. hulk's strength is ALSO limitless (and at least his strength feats come close to supporting that claim -- hellacloser than anyone who's had the PG)

but . . . more importantly -- it was claimed the juggernaut is truly unstoppable, ergo he would easily walk out of the cube! 😱

well done, quan, you proved my argument. 😄
(still lmao at you believing the cube thing would work . . .)

and i am in love with your new-found logic. it's the kind of logic that could cause a revolution around here:

claim=proof
seemingly=definitive
potential=reality
thanos=truth teller

😆

you're cute when you try to be smart. 😄

fact: hulk's feats>>pg gem feats. deny it?
fact: wwh stated to be STRONGEST HULK EVER. deny it?

conclusion: on panel HULK>PG. 😆

you're just po'd because you know it and can't do a thing about it. hell, thanos himself compared a pg wielder to hulk. 😂

i know, i know the gem WOULD be infinite if someone who knew anything about power actually COULD tap into it. too bad noobs like thor and champion are clueless when it comes to power. :rollover:

and thor in wm went through adam and ss simultaneously and was holding his own against that same team he used the pg against. you really have no clue (period) how much the gem helped him since he was already in wm and far far stronger than normal thor.

regarding the strange countering the IG scan (can you really not have seen it??) -- show me the 'kick' and i'll consider showing you. heh

ps--i did NOT know bb was a skrull, but it's funny you only mentioned it after smurph brought it up! 😂 and regardless, the power of the simulated voice was clearly impressive but i relent on the point since it's impossible to say if it could or could not have matched the real bb's voice. thanks for pointing it out smurph. 😉

To be fair, the PG has always been an iffy subject. In my opinion, I see no reason to doubt what Thanos said, at least as far as veracity is concerned, due to comics being third-person limited most of the time, and needing some sort of informative, contextual narration at the same time. Whether or not Thanos actually knew what he was talking about is another problem, but if those panels were meant as informative narration, I doubt they would be anything less than accurate.

The problem, of course, is how that translates to reality. The words "conduit", "seemingly", "limitless" and "unfocused" are terrible words to interpret contextually, partially due to varying degrees of skepticism and the various degrees of perception possible. I think most people agree that the PG is a potentially limitless powersource, based mostly on narration, handbooks and the IG, and my take is that the above description is indeed accurate.

The two contingent factors at work here are the varying levels of superlatives such as "limitless" or "omnipotent" and the integrity of narration/handbook based levels that may not be 100% backed up by feats. I'm sure most people are familiar with the first factor, and that it is entirely possible for Hulk and a PG user, for example, to operate on two levels of "limitlessness". That leads into the second factor. Hulk's "limitless" strength is arguably a misnomer, due to both logic (it is logically/biologically impossible for a humanoid to get infinitely angry) and feats (Hulk does not one-shot anything he hits, and lacks a stimulus to get infinitely angry, even if the latter were possible). The gem's levels were primarily established by narration and handbook statements (as are some other relatively obscure objects or characters; Champion is an example) and a caveat was placed on its endowments (ability to use the gem, understanding the gem and ability to focus the gem's energy).

There has never been a situation in which logic or feats disprove the narration/statements made on the PG, unlike that of the Hulk. The only instance in which the PG has been seen at its peak was when it was part of the working IG, when it is entirely probable that a combination of the other gems give an ability to use the PG more optimally, as extrapolated from the IG being a greater whole than the sum of its individual parts. This could be down to a greater intrinsic understanding of the gems when the IG as a whole is used, greater sensory perception and a certain level of omniscience/focus. Users of the singular PG have had mitigating factors, such as a lack of mental ability to wield the gem (drax/champion/titania), a lack of focus (Thor/titania) and a lack of absolute understanding on all prior owners. What this means is that the statement that the PG is infinite in the true sense of the word (IG is > everything in marvel save TOAA/LT) holds because its prior owners' failures were their own, but that it will NOT be used to its fullest potential without the optimal mental state (which is likely impossible without the other gems)

Originally posted by leonidas
sweet! so vulcan's power IS limitless because it was claimed to be so, and sentry DID stalemate galactus because it was claimed to be so. hulk's strength is ALSO limitless (and at least his strength feats come close to supporting that claim -- hellacloser than anyone who's had the PG)

but . . . more importantly -- it was claimed the juggernaut is truly unstoppable, ergo he would easily walk out of the cube! 😱

well done, quan, you proved my argument. 😄
(still lmao at you believing the cube thing would work . . .)

and i am in love with your new-found logic. it's the kind of logic that could cause a revolution around here:

claim=proof
seemingly=definitive
potential=reality
thanos=truth teller

😆

you're cute when you try to be smart. 😄

fact: hulk's feats>>pg gem feats. deny it?
fact: wwh stated to be STRONGEST HULK EVER. deny it?

conclusion: on panel HULK>PG. 😆

you're just po'd because you know it and can't do a thing about it. hell, thanos himself compared a pg wielder to hulk. 😂

i know, i know the gem WOULD be infinite if someone who knew anything about power actually COULD tap into it. too bad noobs like thor and champion are clueless when it comes to power. :rollover:

and thor in wm went through adam and ss simultaneously and was holding his own against that same team he used the pg against. you really have no clue (period) how much the gem helped him since he was already in wm and far far stronger than normal thor.

regarding the strange countering the IG scan (can you really not have seen it??) -- show me the 'kick' and i'll consider showing you. heh

ps--i did NOT know bb was a skrull, but it's funny you only mentioned it after smurph brought it up! 😂 and regardless, the power of the simulated voice was clearly impressive but i relent on the point since it's impossible to say if it could or could not have matched the real bb's voice. thanks for pointing it out smurph. 😉

Thanos was in possession of the power gem and knew what it did and what the other infinity gems were capable of because the Infinity Well informed him of this. I mean its like I have to help you every step of the way.

Im not showing you any kick. You seem clueless about the WW Hulk saga as you do about the power gem. You didnt even know WW Hulk beat a skrull and you kept claiming Blackbolt. I cant help it you keep posting inaccurate info at me.

Power gem>>WW Hulk the strongest he had been turning human when he cooled down in a battle with Sentry. Did you also forget that they had some kind of anti gamma radiation thingamaroo that if it was loaded correctly by Ironman or shield it would have depowered him before the Ironman fight.

Again WW Hulk beat Strange/broke his hands through trickery and Strange admitted he could take him out with a thought if he wanted but was out of ideas when he ran into Thor with the power gem.

If you really think Strange could take on the ig then you didnt read the story. I am sure you misinterpreted one scan and blew it out of proportion.

Uhm we do know that he was amping himself and getting stronger and stronger. For one he beat down a team and used the gem to send back energy at Strange and company. Read the scans I give you please.

Thanos wins this easily.

Looooooong posts are looooooooong!

I resent that. It took me twelve minutes to type that out 🙁

Originally posted by Ouallada
To be fair, the PG has always been an iffy subject. In my opinion, I see no reason to doubt what Thanos said, at least as far as veracity is concerned, due to comics being third-person limited most of the time, and needing some sort of informative, contextual narration at the same time. Whether or not Thanos actually knew what he was talking about is another problem, but if those panels were meant as informative narration, I doubt they would be anything less than accurate.

The problem, of course, is how that translates to reality. The words "conduit", "seemingly", "limitless" and "unfocused" are terrible words to interpret contextually, partially due to varying degrees of skepticism and the various degrees of perception possible. I think most people agree that the PG is a potentially limitless powersource, based mostly on narration, handbooks and the IG, and my take is that the above description is indeed accurate.

The two contingent factors at work here are the varying levels of superlatives such as "limitless" or "omnipotent" and the integrity of narration/handbook based levels that may not be 100% backed up by feats. I'm sure most people are familiar with the first factor, and that it is entirely possible for Hulk and a PG user, for example, to operate on two levels of "limitlessness". That leads into the second factor. Hulk's "limitless" strength is arguably a misnomer, due to both logic (it is logically/biologically impossible for a humanoid to get infinitely angry) and feats (Hulk does not one-shot anything he hits, and lacks a stimulus to get infinitely angry, even if the latter were possible). The gem's levels were primarily established by narration and handbook statements (as are some other relatively obscure objects or characters; Champion is an example) and a caveat was placed on its endowments (ability to use the gem, understanding the gem and ability to focus the gem's energy).

There has never been a situation in which logic or feats disprove the narration/statements made on the PG, unlike that of the Hulk. The only instance in which the PG has been seen at its peak was when it was part of the working IG, when it is entirely probable that a combination of the other gems give an ability to use the PG more optimally, as extrapolated from the IG being a greater whole than the sum of its individual parts. This could be down to a greater intrinsic understanding of the gems when the IG as a whole is used, greater sensory perception and a certain level of omniscience/focus. Users of the singular PG have had mitigating factors, such as a lack of mental ability to wield the gem (drax/champion/titania), a lack of focus (Thor/titania) and a lack of absolute understanding on all prior owners. What this means is that the statement that the PG is infinite in the true sense of the word (IG is > everything in marvel save TOAA/LT) holds because its prior owners' failures were their own, but that it will NOT be used to its fullest potential without the optimal mental state (which is likely impossible without the other gems)

Originally posted by Mr. Slippyfist
Looooooong posts are looooooooong!

Originally posted by quanchi112
It was still an excellent post. 👆

Originally posted by quanchi112
Read the scans I posted. 😐

Originally posted by quanchi112

Read what he says here there is no limit.

Case and point. I win.