Christianity the Satan inspired religion.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Good sir, Satan means "obstacle", and it's in the original version. Including Job, which is old testament, therefore Islam wasn't even around then. I see you are continuing to make stuff up in every forum.

Satan means "the accuser" as Satan, accuses Job of lacking faith...

Originally posted by King Kandy
Satan wasn't invented by the catholic church, he was already a character in the bible. Revelations reveals his origin, and that is also before Islam. His whole role in the bible as a tempter and enemy of God already existed before Islam was even around, so there's no way that he's based on them.

I agree, I have no idea what Leo is making up...does he mean the Name or the actual devil character?

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Satan means "the accuser" as Satan, accuses Job of lacking faith...

I agree, I have no idea what Leo is making up...does he mean the Name or the actual devil character?

i mean the name. but it is also reference to the characters, you have to admit, much of the mythology concerning satan etc isnt even close to directly stated in the new testament, and the name brings further confusion, i mean hello, there are people contemplating whether the morningstar meant lucifer or jesus! many a times the BEAST is used, and there are also confusion of whether the anti christ is satan or a human or what the relation between the two is. in pure scriptures, it is very confusing. i.e. the accuser/the snake/the dragon/the beast/the morningstar/ etc etc etc. also, the ACCUSER has a rather interesting mythology surrounding him in judaism, where he is an evil angel WITHIN the ranks of heaven interested in punishments more than judgement etc.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
i mean the name. but it is also reference to the characters, you have to admit, much of the mythology concerning satan etc isnt even close to directly stated in the new testament, and the name brings further confusion, i mean hello, there are people contemplating whether the morningstar meant lucifer or jesus! many a times the BEAST is used, and there are also confusion of whether the anti christ is satan or a human or what the relation between the two is. in pure scriptures, it is very confusing. i.e. the accuser/the snake/the dragon/the beast/the morningstar/ etc etc etc. also, the ACCUSER has a rather interesting mythology surrounding him in judaism, where he is an evil angel WITHIN the ranks of heaven interested in punishments more than judgement etc.

Ah, I can't say I am very familiar with the actual character of the Devil, indeed there is debate over whether he is actually an entity at all.

I shall look into this and get back to you all. I have some good theology books my a man called McGrath- who is good at summing these things up.

The "Accuser" is the "Satan" in Job, yes that was my point all along. It is implied in Job that he works for God or at the very least is tolerated. The Name could mean "Accuser" or "Obstacle" and it originates from before Islam and is even used in the bible. Islam has nothing to do with it. In fact Satan is seen in catholic doctrine long before Islam was pitted against it in any way.

^ i wasnt referring to the CHARACTER of satan dimwit, i was referring to the name SATAN, which was popularised by the church due to the islamic name for the same evil character called SHAITAN. duh ofcourse the devil was a mythological character before islam, why would i beleive otherwise???

as for the accuser being SATAN in job, i have already explained my views on the subect, these references are often vague and hard to interpret.

'Satan' is שָׂטָן Satan in Standard Hebrew, Śāṭān in Tiberian Hebrew, סטנא Saṭänä in Aramaic, Σατανάς Satanás in Koine Greek, شيطان Šeytân in Persian, شيطان Šayṭān in Arabic, ሳይጣን Sāyṭān in Ge'ez, Şeytan in Turkish, and شيطان Shāiṭān in Urdu.

The word 'Satan', and the Arabic شيطان "shaitan", may derive from a Northwest Semitic root śṭn, meaning "to be hostile", "to accuse."[1] An alternative explanation is provided by the Hebrew in Job 1:7. When God asks him whence he has come, Satan answers: "From wandering (mi'ŝu&#7789😉 the earth and walking on it" (מִשּׁוּט בָּאָרֶץ, וּמֵהִתְהַלֵּךְ בָּ&#1492😉. The root ŝuṭ signifies wandering on foot or sailing. 'Satan' would thus be "the Wanderer".

Thats Wikipedia.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Satan wasn't invented by the catholic church, he was already a character in the bible. Revelations reveals his origin, and that is also before Islam. His whole role in the bible as a tempter and enemy of God already existed before Islam was even around, so there's no way that he's based on them.

True, Satan is a very old god.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
True, Satan is a very old god.

As old as the Earth.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
As old as the Earth.

I wouldn't go that far, but I would say he predates recorded history.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I wouldn't go that far, but I would say he predates recorded history.

Where ever there is darkness 😉

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Where ever there is darkness 😉

But he was once the morning star.

Remember we disagree on one fundamental concept: Satan is not real, and is man made.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But he was once the morning star.

Remember we disagree on one fundamental concept: Satan is not real, and is man made.

I know, hense the wink.

Satan is a lame duck anyway...

Originally posted by leonheartmm
^ i wasnt referring to the CHARACTER of satan dimwit, i was referring to the name SATAN, which was popularised by the church due to the islamic name for the same evil character called SHAITAN. duh ofcourse the devil was a mythological character before islam, why would i beleive otherwise???

And besides the fact, in Islam Satan is referred to as Iblis. This nullifies your entire point.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
as for the accuser being SATAN in job, i have already explained my views on the subect, these references are often vague and hard to interpret.

Originally posted by King Kandy
The name SATAN was part of church dogma before Islam even EXISTED, dimwit. Church Doctrine=Bible. For you to say that "Shaitan" is the islamic name for "Satan" shows that he had ALREADY EXISTED in earlier Dogma, furthermore THEY HAVE THE SAME ROOT! Of course they sound similar. Islam came after Christianity.

And besides the fact, in Islam Satan is referred to as Iblis. This nullifies your entire point.

Are you for real? He is CALLED Satan in Job. How could you possibly question whether or not he is Satan when that's Satan's premier?

the name satan was POPULARISED when the church found out of its usage by the muslims and referenced it as unclean. this is what i read in the article on wiki previous to the new and longer edit.
also church doctrine =/= bible, it is paul, they are two different things. i didnt put a chronology on who piced from who, i simply meant that shaitan is the same as satan. islam came from judaism and christianity, but ARABIC DIDNT. arabic is more ancient than greek and even aramaic/ancient hebrew.

also, do not challenge me on islam, youll see that youll be found a bit lacking. "iblis" was the name of the devout JIN who worshipped god to the extent that he was promoted to the level of an angel, {which is unheard of } and he also became the most devout angel, and yet, when he refused to bow down to adam considering him to be inferior as he was made of clay and he himself a jin, was made of fire and as an angel, of god's radiance, he was thrown out of heaven and fell and THEN he was called "SHAITAN" shaitan is what muslims the world over call him. a difference in names before and after the fall. so you see, my point remains.

as for job, i will have to read the specific reference in a sholarly direct translation. more often then not, due to the cryptic and confusing nature of actual bible verses, unwarrantedly lucid translations are made. and also, one instance in job isnt enough to descredit the entire contradicting mythos on the character foudn throughout the bible.

Satan was used in Christianity 500 years before Islam existed. Shaitan and Satan refer to the same thing, but Christianity did it earlier. Any importance of Shaitan in Islam is because he had already made appearances in the new and old testament.

^the word shaitan predates christianity. the concept as seen in context to islam doesnt obviously, but shaitan itself does.

Yeah no shit sherlock since it's analogs appear in all sorts of scripture predating Islam.

^but not predating arabic, which is older than christianity and judaism.

In any case it means nothing. Your claim was that the church had popularized Satan in response to Islam. Which clearly is impossible since Christianity (which mentions Satan many times in the bible and early doctrine) predates Islam.

^popularised =/= created. you fail to uderstand that.